Shoot To Kill Policy Correct?

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart

BikerEddie,

You appear to believe that 'Suspected terrorists' are just a different kind of terrorist!

How is that a bad thing?
If a man acts and behaves like a terrorist does that mean we have to wait until he kills to suspect he's a terrorist?

A double standard has arisen here, namely the fact that governments are acting as terrorists in the name of "counter-terrorism." This exercise was deliberate while a person was chased by people out of uniform. What would anyone think under these circumstances?

The propaganda and psyops program is to assert a new license to kill civilians and it is nothing new, only now it is in your face and out in the open. People are now accepting unacceptable things, and whoopie, hundreds of years of free speaking in front of parliament is toast too!

Government by pretext and deception is reaching a feverish low, and it is a fact from observation historically it only becomes worse as an addiction becomes worse. The adrenal steroid high of violent government personnel once routine always becomes a cancer upon civilization. We are facing a predatory atmosphere from supposed authorities. The sad reaconing is that violence and licentiousness conducts itself under color of law. It betrays itself as weakness, while masquerading as toughness and power. Bullies are cowards. They must not be rewarded anywhere.

[edit on 10-8-2005 by SkipShipman]

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart

BikerEddie,

You appear to believe that 'Suspected terrorists' are just a different kind of terrorist!

And just how do you come that conclusion from the post you quoted me in?

Originally posted by SkipShipman
A double standard has arisen here, namely the fact that governments are acting as terrorists in the name of "counter-terrorism." This exercise was deliberate while a person was chased by people out of uniform. What would anyone think under these circumstances?

What?
This was not what the police wanted, THAT is YOUR opinion and nothing else. If you wish to slander the good people of the police then mabye you should do so to thier faces instead of behind a screen.

The propaganda and psyops program is to assert a new license to kill civilians and it is nothing new, only now it is in your face and out in the open. People are now accepting unacceptable things, and whoopie, hundreds of years of free speaking in front of parliament is toast too!

Porpaganda is only propaganda when you want it to be.
Since when was a gun designed for anything other than killing?

Government by pretext and deception is reaching a feverish low, and it is a fact from observation historically it only becomes worse as an addiction becomes worse. The adrenal steroid high of violent government personnel once routine always becomes a cancer upon civilization. We are facing a predatory atmosphere from supposed authorities. The sad reaconing is that violence and licentiousness conducts itself under color of law. It betrays itself as weakness, while masquerading as toughness and power. Bullies are cowards. They must not be rewarded anywhere.
[edit on 10-8-2005 by SkipShipman]

So what would you have done?
Let him run?

Is this post still twitching?

Where's the post about the 20 women & children killed by the Brazilian police that week?

The guy ignored a direct order, silly boy, now dead - end of

Originally posted by devilwasp
What?
This was not what the police wanted, THAT is YOUR opinion and nothing else. If you wish to slander the good people of the police then mabye you should do so to their faces instead of behind a screen.

You can find more about all this by researching on the internet, instead of looking at superficial MSM sources. These were not police but soldiers in all effect, by their training set to take orders. I have lived in London, and respect the police there, in fact they had helped me greatly, the Catford police department in particular. What I do object towards is the current atmosphere of martial law that exists in London, when many of the earlier attacks from the IRA were clearly announced as having been sponsored by the British government as a pretext politically for all the cameras for example and other measures. Perhaps it is a leap of logic to face the fact that this was a propaganda exercise, but nonetheless it is not simply my own opinion but the well researched editorial and newsgathering function of many people.

Face it your government in the UK is softening you up, to get you "used to it," one little step at a time. Just wait until there are no regrets in the future after incidents such as this.

I do not expect to accomplish anything with reason and analytical arguments with you, however I am certain others would look more deeply.

[edit on 10-8-2005 by SkipShipman]

Originally posted by Bikereddie

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart

BikerEddie,

You appear to believe that 'Suspected terrorists' are just a different kind of terrorist!

And just how do you come that conclusion from the post you quoted me in?

BikerEddie, the specific quote was:

"I know this (shoot to kill policy) is not the ideal way, but to me and many others, it is unfortunately, the only way that our security forces can deal with terrorists, suspected ones too.

The attitude of those who agree with the 'shoot to kill' policy is that the sentence of death should be passed on anyone who can be 'suspected' of being a terrorist. This is treating suspected terrorists as a actual terrorists, and the 'crime' of beng suspected is as serious as the actual crime of terrorism, and carries the same punishment.

Thus 'suspected terrorists are being treated as a kind of terrorist!

Originally posted by SkipShipman
You can find more about all this by researching on the internet, instead of looking at superficial MSM sources. These were not police but soldiers in all effect, by their training set to take orders. I have lived in London, and respect the police there, in fact they had helped me greatly, the Catford police department in particular. What I do object towards is the current atmosphere of martial law that exists in London, when many of the earlier attacks from the IRA were clearly announced as having been sponsored by the British government as a pretext politically for all the cameras for example and other measures. Perhaps it is a leap of logic to face the fact that this was a propaganda exercise, but nonetheless it is not simply my own opinion but the well researched editorial and newsgathering function of many people.

Face it your government in the UK is softening you up, to get you "used to it," one little step at a time. Just wait until there are no regrets in the future after incidents such as this.

I do not expect to accomplish anything with reason and analytical arguments with you, however I am certain others would look more deeply.

[edit on 10-8-2005 by SkipShipman]

Then your bad at expecting.
They where not soldiers, but police officers, where you got this idea of them being soldeirs I dont know.
There has been 2 attacks in the last 2 months, that would explain the hyped.
The government isnt going to take over and we wont become a police state, if we do then I'll eat a hat.
When where these "earlier" attacks? When they where PIRA? Or proper IRA?

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart

BikerEddie,

You appear to believe that 'Suspected terrorists' are just a different kind of terrorist!

How is that a bad thing?
If a man acts and behaves like a terrorist does that mean we have to wait until he kills to suspect he's a terrorist?

There are an infinite number of behaviour patterns which terrorists and other people share.

For example, most terrorists and non terrorists eat, wear clothes, walk around on two legs, and so on.

My point is that 'behaving like a terrorist' is really only an accurate description of a real terrorist. People who are not terrorists do not 'behave like terrorists' at all ( except in that they share a vast number of common human traits with actual terorists) . . . . . and they are not terrorists just because people decide that they might be.

e.g: ( "look Mum, the man is eating a hamburger, he might be a terrorist")

e.g: ( "look Mum, that man is running with a beard on, he must be a terrorist")

'sSuspected terrorists' are not necessarily terrorists, but they are being treated as such.

In the name of 'Security' we are now assuming that all 'suspected terrorists' must be immediately executed without trial.

This is a bad thing



[edit on 10-8-2005 by Roy Robinson Stewart]

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
There are an infinite number of behaviour patterns which terrorists and other people share.

For example, most terrorists and non terrorists eat, wear clothes, walk around on two legs, and so on.

My point is that 'behaving like a terrorist' is really only an accurate description of a real terrorist. People who are not terrorists do not 'behave like terrorists' at all. . . . . and they are not terrorists just because people decide that they might be.

Thus 'suspected terrorists' are not necessarily terrorists.

In the name of 'Security' we are now assuming that all 'suspected terrorists' must be immediately executed without trial.

This is a bad thing

No that was never said, you made that up.
A suspected terrorist is someone who behaves like he will attack.
If I started gathering explosives for "research" then that would be me being watched...If I started associating with people who had a history of "unscroupulos" activities or actively preached hate against the UK then that would be me being suspected.
Never once does that imply an execution.

Of course I made it up, I was demonstrating that almost any kind of behaviour can be seen as 'behaving like a terrorist'. . . . if the level of paranoia is high enough.


And according to you fascist apologists, running away ( a natural human reaction) means that you are 'behaving as if you are going to attack' . . . . . .and this crime is punishable by instant execution without trial!

A bad thing for sure.

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart

Originally posted by Bikereddie

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart

BikerEddie,

You appear to believe that 'Suspected terrorists' are just a different kind of terrorist!

And just how do you come that conclusion from the post you quoted me in?

BikerEddie, the specific quote was:

"I know this (shoot to kill policy) is not the ideal way, but to me and many others, it is unfortunately, the only way that our security forces can deal with terrorists, suspected ones too.

The attitude of those who agree with the 'shoot to kill' policy is that the sentence of death should be passed on anyone who can be 'suspected' of being a terrorist. This is treating suspected terrorists as a actual terrorists, and the 'crime' of beng suspected is as serious as the actual crime of terrorism, and carries the same punishment.

Thus 'suspected terrorists are being treated as a kind of terrorist!

1st of all, why don't you give the full quote so it doesn't take me out of context? You quoted as specific too Maybe you should quote exactly eh?

This is what i wrote.

If a person is 'suspected ' of carrying a gun or explosive device, and fails to stop when told, then the only obvious way to protect innocents that could be around, is 'shoot to kill'.

I know this is not the ideal way, but to me and many others, it is unfortunately, the only way that our security forces can deal with terrorists, suspected ones too.

This is the way of the world we are now living in. We are going to have to get used to it................

So going by your standard of thinking, its OK for suspected terrorists to go unhindered? Thats what i believe you are trying to say.(sound familiar?)
I do wonder what you would do or say if any of your loved ones were caught up in any terrorist attack and the police/security forces did nothing to stop it.
Get in the real world fella. This is here to stay, weather we like it or not!!!!!

By the way, i take it your not from the UK? correct me if I'm wrong.....

And why all the ?

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
Of course I made it up, I was demonstrating that almost any kind of behaviour can be seen as 'behaving like a terrorist'. . . . if the level of paranoia is high enough.


And according to you fascist apologists, running away ( a natural human reaction) means that you are 'behaving as if you are going to attack' . . . . . .and this crime is punishable by instant execution without trial!

A bad thing for sure.

Could your comments not be construed as supporting terrorism then? You are obviously against the 'shoot to kill policy', so i suppose you could be seen as a supporter of the terrorist with some of the comments you have made.(your logic,not mine)

So the most obvious reaction is to run when asked to stop? If you have something to hide, then the 'human reaction' of running away comes into play.

Basically, you run when asked to stop, you get shot if you are under suspicion. End of story.

Nothing to hide? Then stop and let them question you, or search you. problem solved, life saved. Easy as that.................

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
Of course I made it up, I was demonstrating that almost any kind of behaviour can be seen as 'behaving like a terrorist'. . . . if the level of paranoia is high enough.

Yeah and thats why we paranio cant be controlled.

And according to you fascist apologists, running away ( a natural human reaction) means that you are 'behaving as if you are going to attack' . . . . . .and this crime is punishable by instant execution without trial!

I am not a facist, if anything on the other side of the political spectrum.
Since when is it natural to run away from police?
When you run away after being told to stop by police men, with guns, and your suspected of being a terrorist you most likely ARE ONE.
Whether or not you are one is another question, its what you appear and if you appear to threaten the people around you.
Mabye you would care to enlighten us to what we should do incase we encounter another terrorist?

Originally posted by devilwasp

When you run away after being told to stop by police men, with guns, and your suspected of being a terrorist you most likely ARE ONE.

The only recent example shows exactly the opposite!

You are heading for the doublethink hall of fame!

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
The only recent example shows exactly the opposite!

How did we know if he ran before the weapons where pulled?
Any normal person seeing a gun being pulled on them will freeze, why? Because they might shoot you if you move.

You are heading for the doublethink hall of fame!

Oh really?
Ask how many people you want if they will stop and follow orders if someone puts a gun to thier heads, the results will shock you.

Originally posted by Bikereddie
Could your comments not be construed as supporting terrorism then? You are obviously against the 'shoot to kill policy', so i suppose you could be seen as a supporter of the terrorist with some of the comments you have made.(your logic,not mine)

So if I disagree with the instant execution without trial of anyone who is suspected of being a terrorist then I am supporting terrorism?

I think not, and that isn't 'my logic' at all.

Here are some more thumbs for you

DV he's a WUM!

The Met / SAS shoot one guy and the World goes mad, ignoring the hundreds of people killed legitimately and illegally on the same day by other, less reputable, Police forces.

It's a concern but it's a UK concern and we'll deal with it our way. Others seem have a vested interested in stirring on this issue. I wonder if RRS has a culinary side-line?

Originally posted by devilwaspAny normal person seeing a gun being pulled on them will freeze

Well if they are not normal then gun them down? Duh!

On what do you base your conclusion regarding 'normal' behaviour when confronted with a gun?

The movies?

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
Well if they are not normal then gun them down? Duh!

No, if they run then you suspect them of being a terrorist or criminal that doesnt mean they should there and then, the police done this by not just shooting him there and then.

On what do you base your conclusion regarding 'normal' behaviour when confronted with a gun?

Because I've had a rifle point in my face, thank you very much, not a pleasant experience.

You ask most people if someone pulls a gun out and points it at you, what do you do?

The movies?

No real life,

Removed....Disgraceful post by me...I apologise for it.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]