The New Iraqi Army

Hi there. First of all I'd like to say a warm hello to everyone on these boards as I have just joined and this is my first post.

The past two weeks events have for me demonstrated that Bush and Blair are not winning the war on terror at this current time. Depsite armies in both Iraq and Afganistan, these Islamic fanatics still seem able to carry out their attacks, especially in Iraq where the civilian death toll is quite horrific.

Key to Bush and Blairs "exit" strategy is for the Iraqi Army to take over operations in place of Coalition troops. Even so, the media doesn't seem to be paying that much attention to the creation of this new army or what it can do. What I would like this thread to be is a place to assemble information about the New Iraqi Army. Mainly:

1) Troop numbers. What is the current troop levels in the new Army. What are the projected growth rates and how long will it take to achive these numbers?

2) What is the ethnic makeup of this army. Is it mainly Shia and Kurd? Or are there Sunni units been put into action? Are regiments been mixed so that there are no regiments consisting of one ethnic group?

3) What are the weapons/equipment used by the new Army? Are they leftover weapons from the old disposed regime or are they brand new? Is the right equipment getting to the right people and are these weapons suitable for anti terror/counter insurgency operations? What is the composition of the force? Is it infantry based or is it armour based?

4) How many Divisions/Regiments are at full operational strength and have asumed full control over their area of operation and are taking the fight to the insurgents. What percentage of the army is battle ready and conducting aggressive patrols? Is there a problem with desertion?

5) What successes have there been with the army? Where has it assumed full control in Iraq and has defeated the insurgents? Is this indicitive of the army as a whole or just an isolated case?

6) What failures have there been with the army, where have troops failed badly against insurgents? Is this indicitive of the army as a whole or just an isolated case?

7) Arab armies have in the past suffered at the hands of poor leadership. Arab soldiers are often quite cabable but are very often poorly led. What steps are been taken to ensure that units are been led by properly trained leaders and quality NCO's?

8) How long based on current figures till the US and the UK can withdraw from Iraq based on current figures and rates of training? I know Bush and Blair say they will not set a date but I am quite sure they have already agreed a timetable for largescale troop withdrawl.

Now I know Iraq is a passionate subject for everyone. I don't want this thread to debate the why and why nots of the war. I would simply like it to be a place where information to be gathered on the capabilities of the new Iraqi army so that people can draw conclusions about timescales for withdrawl.

I look forward to your responses

well they got some new chinese gear.







they cant complain they only got it for $100 something each

images.google.co.uk...://www.detnews.com/pix/2005/03/27/asec/as27-iraqarmy-0305n.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.detnews.com/2005 /nation/0503/28/A09-129773.htm&h=247&w=400&sz=51&tbnid=-fpHBbhxQLAJ:&tbnh=74&tbnw=120&hl=en&start=8&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnew%2Biraqi%2Barmy%2B2005%26svn um%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

This first link gives some indication of the strength of the NCO's Officers and their training. It is interesting that a lot of them were in the old Iraqi Army.

www.estripes.com...

This gives an indictaion of current troop numbers tho it is difficult to say how many of these troops are actually fighting effectively.

images.google.co.uk...://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I32880-2005Apr06&imgrefurl=http://www.washingtonpost.com/w p-dyn/articles/A32631-2005Apr6.html&h=172&w=228&sz=14&tbnid=fN_zYEan7CcJ:&tbnh=77&tbnw=103&hl=en&start=5&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2Biraqi%2Barmy%2B2005%26s vnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

This article gives an indication of one area where troops are beginning to take over from Coalition troops, though as it states there are still equipment shortages.

I suggest the Following Links:

www.globalsecurity.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 23/7/05 by Souljah]

Hi Chinawhite,

Those pictures you posted are interesting. Are those Chinese made assult rifles? I asume the camo gear is also Chinese? Do you know if the Chinese government is supplying many materials to Iraq?

It seems that a lot of what the new army is getting is old cast off gear from lots of different countries. Its gonna be hell for them to standardise! Tho I imagine at the moment that is the least of their concerns.

Thos links you posted were interesting Souljah. I looked at the first one myself when putting this post together. It seems a lot of articles date mainly from 2003. Between that period up until now I have found there to be very little information comming out about the strength of the new army. It is my opinion that this is for two possible reasons.

1) The new army is rubbish and can bearly stand on its own tow feet, in which case the US is in big touble, tho I have reason to doubt this as many militias such as the effective Kurdish Peshmerga are been merged into the army.

2) This is been done so that sensitive information is not passed onto the insurgency which to me seems more likely.

The second link was also interesting. Looking at the globalsecurity estimates of the materials required and how little has actually reached iraq made me wonder. I guess you can't fight Insurgents with tanks tho.

It's easy said than done. I am sure many of those in Iraqi Army are indeed terrorists, even maybe not now.

True, Im beginning to think Iraq is a lost cause. The US and the UK have had all this time to create this army, and there doesn't seem to be any tangible results i.e. drop in violence etc etc. Even so, I do accept that what they are attempting to do is very very hard. How Bush can expect and effective force to trained in the middle of a raging insurgency I don't know.

Ok so I guess there isn't much interest in this area then judging from the views but lack of responses? Ok lets "spice" it up then.....

Do the new Iraqi army know they are using the same helmets as the Israelis? (US made I think).

Look at this first link

images.google.co.uk...://www.frontpagemag.com/Media/Homepage/plaut4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Rea dArticle.asp%3FID%3D14006&h=285&w=410&sz=40&tbnid=sm8sHVGjW0QJ:&tbnh=84&tbnw=121&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3Darab%2Bsoldier%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3De n%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GBfficial_s%26sa%3DG

Now take a look at this one. I guess if you get the army to use US now then they will use US for the future. Nice little racket.

images.google.co.uk...://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/Stories/02_05/36a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/St ories/02_05/36.htm&h=400&w=395&sz=27&tbnid=xRZIUsgwjFkJ:&tbnh=120&tbnw=118&hl=en&start=9&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnew%2Biraqi%2Bsoldier%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3D en%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GBfficial_s%26sa%3DG

Ive also heard that the Israelis are training/operating with the NIA throughout Iraq, tho I don't have the evidence to hand and will have to have a look.