Warning America about Communist Dictatorship

Like most people in the world,chinese people don't want a war. the nationlism shown in many urban chinese people is to some extent a result of the education of the CCP. since commusim has actually been abondoned, nationlism was chosen to justify CCP's rule and cover its faults.
[edit on 23-7-2005 by suihx]

Good insight!

Originally posted by motionknight
American propaganda has become so mainstream that the average american doesnt even notice its propaganda.

And I suppose there is definitely no “anti-US propaganda” which can be considered ‘mainstream’ or ‘unnoticeable’ through out the world?

Originally posted by motionknight
Objectivity should be erased from the american dictionary because it stopped having its genuine meaning a long time ago

Case and point……


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Originally posted by motionknight

Originally posted by NotheRaGe

Originally posted by motionknight
American propaganda has become so mainstream that the average american doesnt even notice its propaganda.

Izit America or erm, communist China? Know your facts

I know my facts, the question is do you?

I hope ur "facts" isn't from green day "american idiot"

Finally, a new book about the history's worst mass murderer revealed in new lights!

Almost 30 years after his death, Mao remains the sacred symbol that China dare not touch. His massive portrait still looms above the entrance to the Forbidden City. His face is on every banknote in the country.

Yet while he continues to be worshipped in China, a shocking new book has concluded that Mao was the bloodiest mass murderer in history, a sadistic thug who enjoyed torture and was willing to sacrifice half of China's population for his dream of global domination.

The biography, based on 10 years of archival research and interviews with people in Mao's inner circle, is a stunning challenge to China's conventional view of the Communist leader.

The book estimates that Mao caused the deaths of 70 million people in peacetime, making him a far worse killer than Hitler or Stalin. It portrays him as a sociopath who loved killing and allowed millions of peasants to starve to death while he exported food to pay for his nuclear weapons; a man whose legendary achievements in the Long March were an invention; a man who turned China into a cultural desert of misery and violence, while maintaining dozens of luxury villas and a troupe of female sexual partners.

Read more:
A new biography about Mao Zedong

During the Long March, Mao was carried on a bamboo litter most of the way.

Err....

Oleneo, you do realise that this book has being canned by some of the world's leading book critics (most of them anti-CCP).

Its one thing to expose the faults of the CCP, its another to make up things.

If you are going to preach democracy successfully to China, you should do so by using the principles of democracy, not just to say "black" everytime the CCP says "white".

The sad thing is many people are still cheated by CCP's false propaganda, so exposing the evil nature of CCP is necessary.

Excuse me? This thread is hillarious, you think the CCP is evil? Have you ever looked at the KMT? They were corrupt, incompetent, and power mad, they were even willing to make peace with Japan essentially sacrificing a large amount of China just so he could have the time to focus on the Communists who for years previous were part of the national movement to aid in China's change over from a monarchy to a republic, remember that true PRC is a dictatorship but remember they have a pop of a BILLION people and frankly they needed to do whatever it took and continues to takes in order to make China strong.

The CCP is not evil in the tradition sense of the word, just complex. They want to do whats best for China following Marxist lines. Remember though that the Great Proleteriat Cultural Revolution was meant to make them more politically pure, even Stalin didn't go that far he was content with his Monolithic Power base, Mao went furthor in the hopes of finding a "Chinese way" for Communism.

Since Mao's death the Communist leadership under Deng began transforming China from its more sluggish Stalninist Central planning towards more of a market oriented economy allow for the quadtrippoling of its GNP in the last 2 decades, China thirsts for super power status, and will get it the Type-98 MBT is a start, as well as the continueing modernization of the Military branches and the rapid economic growth will in 50 years ensure that America has been completely eclipsed by the rising might of the Middle Kingdom.

Also remember that the USA has a great economic dependance on Japan and China and that America CANT break from China without suffering severe economic trauma, takes me 30 seconds to find out my speakers are "Made in China"

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
Excuse me? This thread is hillarious, you think the CCP is evil? Have you ever looked at the KMT? They were corrupt, incompetent, and power mad, they were even willing to make peace with Japan essentially sacrificing a large amount of China just so he could have the time to focus on the Communists who for years previous were part of the national movement to aid in China's change over from a monarchy to a republic, remember that true PRC is a dictatorship but remember they have a pop of a BILLION people and frankly they needed to do whatever it took and continues to takes in order to make China strong.

The CCP is not evil in the tradition sense of the word, just complex. They want to do whats best for China following Marxist lines. Remember though that the Great Proleteriat Cultural Revolution was meant to make them more politically pure, even Stalin didn't go that far he was content with his Monolithic Power base, Mao went furthor in the hopes of finding a "Chinese way" for Communism.

The Cultural Revolution was a disaster to Chinese people.
The Communism movement in the world has produced numerous lost of people's lives.
About the anti-Japanese war, CCP did not lead the war, but interfereed it :

When the anti-Japanese war broke out in 1937, the KMT had more than 1.7 million armed soldiers, ships with 110,000 tons displacement, and about 600 fighter planes of various kinds. The total size of the CCP’s army including the New Fourth Army which was newly grouped in November of 1937, did not exceed 70,000 people.Its power was weakened further by internal fractional politics and could be eliminated in a single battle. The CCP realized that if it were to face battle with the Japanese, it would not be able to defeat even a single division of the Japanese troops. In the eyes of the CCP, sustaining its own power rather than ensuring the survival of the nation was the central focus of the emphasis on “national unity.” Therefore, during its cooperation with the KMT, the CCP exercised an internal policy of “giving priority to the struggle for political power, which is to be disclosed internally and realized in actual practice.”

After the Japanese occupied the city of Shenyang on September 18, 1931, thereby extending their control over large areas in northeastern China, the CCP fought shoulder to shoulder with Japanese invaders to defeat the KMT. In a declaration written in response to the Japanese occupation, the CCP exhorted the people in the KMT-controlled areas to rebel, calling on “workers to strike, peasants to make trouble, students to boycott classes, poor people to quit working, soldiers to revolt” so as to overthrow the Nationalist government.

The CCP held up a banner calling for resistance to the Japanese, but they only had local armies and guerrilla forces in camps away from the front lines. Except for a few battles, including the one fought at Pingxing Pass, the CCP did not make much of a contribution to the war against the Japanese at all. Instead, they spent their energy expanding their own base. When the Japanese surrendered, the CCP incorporated the surrendering soldiers into its army, claiming to have expanded to more than 900,000 regular soldiers, in addition to 2 million militia fighters. The KMT army was essentially alone on the frontlines while fighting the Japanese, losing over 200 marshalls in the war. The commanding officers on the CCP side bore nearly no losses. However, the textbooks of the CCP constantly claimed that the KMT did not resist the Japanese, and that it was the CCP that led the great victory in the anti-Japanese war.

hey middle kingdom,

would you take a moment to read this an then please comment on it

"Just what the hell kind of country is China today?

It certainly isn't a Marxist one, and in truth, of course, it never was anything even remotely Marxist to begin with. Neither was Russia or Cuba or Vietnam or any other country that had the wherewithall to suggest that they were undertaking a Marxist revolution.

Marx's glorious proletarian revolution was supposed to take place in advanced industrial countries. That's why it was called a proletarian revolution, because the revolution itself was to be the result of the vast majority of the population becoming urban wage laborers, who would systematically exploited for profit at the hands of the capitalist class. For Marx, the idea that a communist revolution could take place in an undeveloped country was madness. Marx and Engels both wrote exhaustively about the need for societies to undergo the developmental phase of bourgeois capitalism, because it was those processes that would create an advanced industrialized system, which only then could be transferred into the hands of the proletariat, which by that time would constitute nearly the entire population.

For all that's wrong with that theory (and any discussion as to just how wrong it is would take up much more space and time than I intend to use right now), it's undeniable that Marx was indeed right about at least one thing: any communist revolution undertaken in a country that had not reached a certain level of technological and industrial advancement was doomed to failure, and to be marred by the worst kinds of violence and oppression that would make the evil capitalist oppressors look like pikers. Marx was perfectly right about communism not working in underdeveloped countries (he just happened to be ass-backwards wrong about why it would work in developed countries).

He and Engels stated many times in plain, unambiguous language: any revolution undertaken in pre-industrial countries would fall back upon the same system of a small elite controlling development and oppressing the vast majority for their own gain. Furthermore, the only way the revolutionary system would be able to be maintained was through large amounts of violence.

Sound like any countries you know of?

So China was never a Marxist country. Mao himself knew very little about Marxism. He was an ignorant farmer's boy, and his revolution was essentially just another peasant revolt which followed the same cycle of civil unrest in China for literally thousands of years. Mao's rebellion was based and focused on the peasants. But Marx had nothing but contempt for peasants. They were ignorant. They were crude. They were uneducated. But worst of all, they were counter-revolutionaries of the worst kind. All peasants are preoccupied with is owning their own land. They can't be mobilized for industry, let alone a revolution. For a Marxist revolution, you need a predominant population of educated, skilled factory workers who have the knowledge and consciousness required to run society.

Such a precondition never came close to existing in any country that underwent a so-called "Marxist" revolution. In Russia, the proletariat made up 4% of the population. In China, it was a small fraction of that small fraction.

So China's revolution that culminated in Mao's party taking control in 1949 was never Marxist except in the most bizarre manner, created out of a hodgepodge of pseudoknowledge and sheer ignorance. Mao, and hence China, was about as Marxist as the Black Muslims are Islamic. That analogy came to me a while ago and I didn't think much about it afterward at the beginning. But the more I think about it, the more apt the comparison seems. At its most basic, what you have is really just a singular personality who took some of the most superficial aspects of a rather detailed and complex doctrine and from this and his own idiosyncratic philosophical vagaries, created a dysfunctional, nearly nonsensical hybrid. As I can see it, a trait thatn Mao and Elijah Muhammed shared in common was that they were both either too ignorant, intellectually lazy or egotistical to actually engage the concept of either Marxism or Islam, and instead grafted an ideology of themselves on to a caricature of their respective disciplines.

So, long story short: China was never a Marxist country. The only thing that it ever could really be labeled was Maoist. And just waht is Maoism, you ask?

You got me. No one really knows, since Maoism was essentially whatever Mao said it was, something that was subject to change according to his whimsy. In fact, one of the things that added spice to the life of a Chinese Communist Party official during Mao's reign was the fact that you were often in danger of being heard endorsing something that Mao had once enthusiastically proposed but changed his mind about recently. In those days, it didn't take much to be labeled a counter-revolutionary, and even the accusation of such an ideological taint brought down some very harsh punishments.

So, if the CCP was constantly playing this Russian Roulette guessing game, and Mao himself made it perfectly clear that he was basically casting about in the dark, I leave it to someone with the powers of omniscience to divine what exactly the tenets of Maoism really were as far as some kind of governmental program for the social-political-economic well-being of the country is concerned. However, if you want to simply look at the results and extrapolate backwards from there, the guiding principles of Maoism seem to be: kill as many of your own people as you can, utterly dismantle your nation's economy until it can barely be said to even exist anymore, and relegate the nation as a whole to being a benighted backwater of ignorance and poverty for about 30 years.

If that's what Mao was going for, he did a damn fine job. In two years alone, from 1959-1961, Mao's mismanagement caused the deaths of forty-million people. By 1976, when Mao died and the Party took stock of what was left of their country, there barely even was a Chinese economy. The great Cultural Revolution, spurred on by Mao's exhortations, shut down the school system for years. Can you imagine a society where there's no education going on for that long a time? How is such a thing supposed to function at all?"

this artical summarizes my opinion on the way china has and is run it is not and could never have been communist because the chinese cerca 1949 were not a society of workers but of farmers therefore they were not educated enought to form a true socialist society

Excuse me? Intefeared? I happen to have several books and read various sources that state beyond a doubt that it was largely Mao and his Communists that made it posssible to hold out against Japan, ever hear of the "People's War"? Those tactics were tried, tested and perfected against the Japanese, true Mao's forces started small but as the war progressed geurrilla fighting has soon recurited easily 500,000 peasants, and urban workers to fight the Japanese Army behind their lines and these same tactics when used against the KMT soon changed the balance of power from Chiang-Kai-Shek to Mao.

"By concentrating our many against their few we will eventually turn our few to our many and their many to their few" a paraphrase of one of many of quotes my Mao copied and interpreted from Sun Tzu the writer of the "Art of War".

Chiang may have had an impressive army on paper but they were paper tigers, Chiang was too much of a careerist and placed men of loyalty above men of skill in charge of his forces and it led him to defeat after defeat, as I said it took a coup d'etate to convince Chiang to reconile with Mao and focus on the Japanese and afterwards it was Chiang who refused Mao's proposal for joint government over China.

True the loss of 40 million is a large loss, and largely disasterous but it had some positive effects, such as the elimination of more then 70% of the beaurocracy, and the Gang of Four was tried for attmepting to continue it however it did not leave the country in economic shambles as you say else the quadripoling of the GDP would not have been possible under Premier Deng Xiaoping.

Now as for you Anti Marxistism, Leninism, Maoism, please leave your insulting demogogery in the trash where it belongs, "Communist" is easily derived from "Commune" or "Community" the point of it is for the government to equalizr the wealth but nevertheless allow "each to his abilities, each to his needs" and to ensure that the workers, peasants and soldiers forming a Soviet will have a voice in government, in tyranical nations this can only be achieved by force via revolution in parlimentary democracies getting into power via elections is acceptable.

your post is the propaganda of CCP!

look at some truth of the evil nature of CCP:

The “Anti-Japanese” North-Bound Operation—The Flight of the Defeated

The CCP labeled the “Long March” as a northbound anti-Japanese operation. It trumpeted the “Long March” as a Chinese revolutionary fairy tale. It claimed that the “Long March” was a “manifesto,” a “propaganda team” and a “seeding machine,” which ended with the CCP’s victory and their enemies’ defeat.

The CCP fabricated such obvious lies about marching north to fight the Japanese to cover its failures. From October 1933 to January 1934, the Communist Party suffered a total defeat. In the fifth operation by the KMT, which aimed to encircle and annihilate the CCP, the CCP lost its rural strongholds one after another. With its base areas continually shrinking, the main Red Army had to flee. This is the true origin of the “Long March.”

english.epochtimes.com...

CCP is a maturing fascist regime. This new phenomenon is hard to recognize, both because CCP's leaders continue to call themselves communists, and also because the fascist states of the first half of the 20th century were young, governed by charismatic and revolutionary leaders, and destroyed in World War II. China is anything but young, and it is governed by a third or fourth generation of leaders who are anything but charismatic.

About more of the argue about the Fascism party
www.opinionjournal.com...

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
I happen to have several books and read various sources that state beyond a doubt that it was largely Mao and his Communists that made it posssible to hold out against Japan, ever hear of the "People's War"?...

...please leave your insulting demogogery in the trash where it belongs, "Communist" is easily derived from "Commune" or "Community" the point of it is for the government to equalizr the wealth but nevertheless allow "each to his abilities, each to his needs" and to ensure that the workers, peasants and soldiers forming a Soviet will have a voice in government, in tyranical nations this can only be achieved by force via revolution in parlimentary democracies getting into power via elections is acceptable.

Please tell me what the names wonderful books you got your information from were. I bet they are all from the ccp. A "peoples" war eh? So the people of the KMT were not "people"

Also, I was not aware of the fact people liked me enough to make me a demagogue
seeing as how my use of communist is derived for comie as you said.

I'll make it clear I'm an anarchist meaning I am against all forms of goverment but personally I hate communist goverments more that I hate liberal democracys. Because of the fact liberal democracys allow free speech and our educations are not an indoctrantions into an accptance of our social statous or the worship of a man or an idealogy. I mean really china, or as you might call it 中国 or zhongguo meaning center land, is so god damn arragant I mean really the center what ignorance. And am I supposed to be upset for saying what I feel, if you do not like it well 我看见您在地狱.

Since when has a communist govenment reduced the wealth gap between bourgeoisie and peasant. And since when have the poeple of china had a voice in "their" govenment... to answer that stupid question never.

So in closing I hope you someday will understand the Nationalist Party of China along with The Communist Party of China were both wrong. beautiful china does not need one man or a group to lead china, china needs the people to be free above all else. I know many people believe that china can only gain peace through an iron fist. gaining peace through an iron fist has been tried for centuries so why not break the chain. goodbye best wish's for the future

*non english paragraph taken out*

*posting in Chinese is a violation of the T&Cs....Amuk*


[edit on 12-8-2005 by ikillspys]

[edit on 12-8-2005 by ikillspys]

[edit on 12-8-2005 by ikillspys]

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Amuk]

Why do you keep attacking the CCP? Mao's time is over, the CCP has long since declared the Cultural Revolution as wrong, the "Last Emperor" Deng is dead, China is prospering and it's the people who are benefiting, what can you expect? There are more then a billion people living in China and the Government must do what it must to ensure an increase in living conditions. Economic expansion is being delliberatly slowed down and redirected to relief in the country side, the PLA is reorganizing itself to fight a "intense war under high tech conditions" Taiwan will one day rejoin the Middle Kingdom whether Communist or Capitalist does not matter only the nosy busy bodyness of the American Imperialists is preventing it.

Chiang was a corrupt dictator and the US had no right to interfear in our civil war that STILL continues to this day, we have a legal pretext to use armed force, they are a rebellious province that does not obey the central government and you Americans should know better then to interfear considering your own Civil War against the Confederates, you BEGGED Britain and France to stand aside and had McClellin lost, England and France before the Emmancipation would have stepped in and supported the Confederates, where would you be then?

The Long March we all know was taken because we were defeated, Mao's influence during the events leading to that final 5th campaign had been effectively nill, and they had no choice but to go to Yun'an in hopes of stirring the Nationalistic fevor of the northern Chinese peasants against the Japanese invaders and eventually to gain the support needed to either defeat Chiang or at leat gain a compromise in China. Of course it went through the propoganda mill, what government in their right mind wouldn't!? But as for mall travelling in a bamboo bed all the way through it... *shackes head* that is a plain and out right lie! That is Libel and Capitalist propoganda, Mao had very little infuence for most of the Long March and only consolidated his postion in Yun'an it would've been impossible given the circumstances to abuse the trust of the Workers and Peasants of the Chinese people.

I understand that China could be more democratic, but now is not the time, later one day the CCP will finally allow truly fee electiosn but for now they are leading China to greatness, as for the books I read they are in fact your own Western books!

China!, Inside the People's Republic compiled by the North American Committee of Concerned Asian Scholars and Political Leaders of the 20th Centaury: Mao Tse-Tung by Stuart Schram

Everything that China does is done wiht the purpose of catching up to the west and mantain raising living conditions through population control which while sad since children are a blessing is sadly necassary since we have too many people and not enough room. One day we will become more democratic, one day we may adopt a better form of socialism, but only when we are secure economically and militarily.

The Forefathers of the CCP such as Zhou Enlai and Mao Zedong were all former members of the KMT. I believe Mao was head of one of the propaganda departments and Zhou was in charge of the political department in the military.

During the 1940s WWII was going and many claim that Mao and Zhou used their influence to create chaos within the different provinces. Notice that during the ousting of the Japanese from China how many CCP military heads were recorded killed or mememoralized? We all heard about the Long March but after that you don't get to hear to many of the so-called other battles fought by the CCP. Or even old veterans of those times talking about their experiences.

Just a small point look at the Constitution of the CCP and Taiwans's government. If you look at it them both they are very similar except for one thing the CCP puts itself ahead of the People and the Country, whereas the Taiwan one puts the people first. I'm not saying Taiwan is better, as I am not neutral in this regard, but I thought you should see that point.

The CCP is only a Party, the Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Green Party and others are all Parties. Just as in other countries you have the Whigs, the Tories, etc.

Things will change in China and the CCP will eventually collaspe on its own due to its own blunders. The CCP is like any other dynasty that came along in China. It has its life spand too. You have to have faith more in the Chinese people instead of the CCP. The CCP does not represent Chinese people. Remember each dynasty in China was raised to glory by its people and not the ruling Party.

1.Chairman Mao led PLA to defeat USA in the North Koera War in 1950s, the first winning war against foreign country since the last 3 centuries in China's history. Also under his lead, China made out first atomic bomb.
He did many wrong things during the culture revolution, but we can't say he do nothing for China and Chinese people.

2. During the last 25 years, CCP led China to archive the highest GDP growth rate since the last few hundreds of years. It is a very stupid idea to ask current Chinese people to abandom CCP with such greate archivement in the economic growth.

3. According to your posts here, most likely you are from FaLunGong or supported by some anti-China organizations.

Originally posted by Oct
The Forefathers of the CCP such as Zhou Enlai and Mao Zedong were all former members of the KMT. I believe Mao was head of one of the propaganda departments and Zhou was in charge of the political department in the military.

During the 1940s WWII was going and many claim that Mao and Zhou used their influence to create chaos within the different provinces. Notice that during the ousting of the Japanese from China how many CCP military heads were recorded killed or mememoralized? We all heard about the Long March but after that you don't get to hear to many of the so-called other battles fought by the CCP. Or even old veterans of those times talking about their experiences.

Just a small point look at the Constitution of the CCP and Taiwans's government. If you look at it them both they are very similar except for one thing the CCP puts itself ahead of the People and the Country, whereas the Taiwan one puts the people first. I'm not saying Taiwan is better, as I am not neutral in this regard, but I thought you should see that point.

The CCP is only a Party, the Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Green Party and others are all Parties. Just as in other countries you have the Whigs, the Tories, etc.

Things will change in China and the CCP will eventually collaspe on its own due to its own blunders. The CCP is like any other dynasty that came along in China. It has its life spand too. You have to have faith more in the Chinese people instead of the CCP. The CCP does not represent Chinese people. Remember each dynasty in China was raised to glory by its people and not the ruling Party.

In fact the book I cited "Political Leaders of the 20th Century: Mao Tse-tung" published by Peguin Books (a british company) listed quite a few battles by the CCP from the split form the KMT onwards. Also the CCP was a large faction within the KMT with a guiding hand from Moscow (before the International became the beating stick of Soviet Policy when for example Lenin had to defend his case quite aggressively against an Indian Socialist a mr Roy) this was originally during the time of Sun Yat-sen the first provision President of the Republic of China (the founder of the KMT) and the father of modern China, he was the one who originally included the CCP in with the KMT since they were important in representing the peasents and the urban Proletariate.

However it was after his death and the emergance of Chiang Kai Shek that a split began to emerge and was irreverseable when Chiang ordered the massacre of worker menonstrations in Shanghai, after that during the 20's the civil war between the Communists and the Koumintang began officially, resulting in the CCP taking refuge in The Jiangxi Soviet or the Chinese Soviet Republic, (this is a simplied history) and 5 campaigns to encircle and destory the CCP, the first 4 were complete failures as Chiang's armies were routed and badly mauled by Mao and his first attempts at using the People's War doctrine of mobility and geurilla fighting, the 5th one succeeded though whether it was because Mao's influence in the Party was nill or because the strategy of using pill box's tied together in barbed wire to slowly strangle the Soviet we will never no, the CCP was forced to take the Long March to both escape anniliation and to head north to muster the Anti Japanese sentiment in Manchuria and the rest of Northern China againt Chiang.

From 1920's to 1949 there were many battles some lost, most won, and the war was won by the CCP under Mao with the announcement of the establishment of the People's Republic of China. And Taiwan like Hong Kong will rejoin the PRC, whether they keep their economic system or not doesn't matter.

Both of you have showed us your special status already.

What is that supposed to mean? Have you've been suddenly proven wrong, has your faith that anything positive in China is just "commie pinko propoganda" has been shaken? Have your facts suddenly deserted you? What do you mean "special status"? I may be Communist the other poster probably isn't but he nevertheless knows enough of his facts to give an unbiased account of China's modern history.

Stop your whining, stop your complaining its YOUR government's fault that there's anything wrong in your country, it was YOUR President Nixon that started the One China Policy, it was YOUR President Reagan that acculimated your MASSIVE Nation Debt, it is YOUR Laissez-faire economy that is making you uncompetetive to China's massive cheap labour and Japan's high tech industry.

If your upset with your country stop trying to interfear in the internal affaires of other nations.

Evil CCP doesnot hope others interfere its internal matters, otherwise, it cannot continue its evil.