criss angel discussion...

Originally posted by MysteryMan666
if its all fake then explain how criss lifted a taxis front end off the ground

1.)trunk full of lead weights
2.)he's very strong
3.)taxi specially modified to make it possible
4.)hidden hydraulic jack, photo editted out, which the crowd couldn't see
etc.
There are many ways it could be fake. Was it though? I don't think so. Once you see someone cut in half, disappear, or fly, in person, it makes an impression. Did to me anyway.

whats funny is that people say the tricks criss angel pulls off is an illusion but what they don't realize is that EVERYTHING IS an ILLUSION for everything is light, all elements of matter is frozen flame, what i mean by that is you can drive from san diego to new york thinking you traveled many miles but in reality you ain't gone nowhere lol

look at the salt shaker dissapearence he demonstrated an "illusion" but he just moved it away and put it on his lap, he even showed people how to do it and then he did an "advanced illusion"(manipulating energy) with the tabasco sauce going through the table without any bull#t(covers, napkins) all in plain sight.

Good point, I think so too. It is all temporary, as Ingersoll said, 'In the presence of eternity, mountains are as transigent as the clouds.'
I am still very much connected to this illusion, though I feel strongly that it is one. My skills in that area are nil. But I hope someday that that changes.

ok ive seen a lot of Criss Angel illusions and im starting to figure out some of them that he does.there is just two that blow my mind and that i have no idea about...1:when he does the "Matrix" pose...you know...the levitation thing...ive seen other people on the internet(youtube)do it so it has to be more than just wires...2:when he makes himself "vanish" behind the sheet on top of the table...again ive seen people do this one as well...if anyone knows how the hell he/they did these illusions then i would greatly appreciate it if u would e mail me and put my misery to an end! my [email protected] you for your time...and hurry up with those answers! =)

OK like it or not Criss Angel is one hell of a showman. I've been in special effects for almost 40 years and there are some stunts he has pulled that I really have no easy answer for. Yes some are illusions, others...hmm beats the hell out of me.

But here is a real miracle for you. George Bush Jr. got elected twice...TWICE. Who is the greatest illusionist of all, hmmm? (Ducking down behind the bar)

Originally posted by tomacco12
whats funny is that people say the tricks criss angel pulls off is an illusion but what they don't realize is that EVERYTHING IS an ILLUSION for everything is light, all elements of matter is frozen flame, what i mean by that is you can drive from san diego to new york thinking you traveled many miles but in reality you ain't gone nowhere lol

look at the salt shaker dissapearence he demonstrated an "illusion" but he just moved it away and put it on his lap, he even showed people how to do it and then he did an "advanced illusion"(manipulating energy) with the tabasco sauce going through the table without any bull#t(covers, napkins) all in plain sight.

Anyone remember the rondelle "Row, row, row your boat..."? It ends with "...life is but a dream". There are moments when some people are able to disconnect from what we consider "reality" and work with the forces that create the illusion. I've only done it once or twice and it was really just dumb luck. But it did allow me to experience life a little differently than others for a moment. It did change my thinking quite a bit.

Deepness stated:

Everything you are looking at is 99.99% nothing.
Why do we see things all around us then?
Because have been gifted with the powers of creation, to create our own reality.
Thus what you see is what you believe. You have created your own version of reality.
There is no such thing as reality outside of you... Its inside your head.

This is illogical. How then are you in my own reality? Did I not create it, according to you? If so then you do not exsist for you are my creation. Deepness wants us to believe we have created our own reality, goes on to explain how it works, denying Absolutes while doing so, then states:

Deepness stated:

Your brain selectively will eliminate any data that it does not believe and not even show it to you. Its true!

You have contradidted yourself over and over in your statment. You believe all is an illusion yet to even know this you MUST know what reality is in order to make a judgment as to what an illusion is.

As for Angel, Blaine and all others who perform these tricks/illusions, yes they are just that...tricks and illusions. Someone brought up Randi and his offer of 1 million dollars to anyone who can demonstrate unworldly powers yet it has not been taken by anyone as of yet.

Now perhaps Cooperfield has enough millions already, Blaine and maybe Angel are doing OK also BUT "IF" Angel does have these powers to levitate and move through solid objects then why not do this under and in a controlled enviroment? It would put all this to rest, correct? The reason he can't or won't is the same reason Benny Hinn doesn't go to the hospital ward and heal all those cancer patients.....THERE IS NOTHING IN IT FOR THEM! No lights, camera, fame...no audience. Going to a faithhealers show is like going to a rock concert...I say this even though I am a Believer in Christ.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Good point, I think so too. It is all temporary, as Ingersoll said, 'In the presence of eternity, mountains are as transigent as the clouds.'
I am still very much connected to this illusion, though I feel strongly that it is one. My skills in that area are nil. But I hope someday that that changes.

Not being picky here...but in just about every post you mention one thing....."I saw David fly.....20 feet away from me.....3 times"

Have you ever asked why he only flies while in show, on stage? Why does he walk onto a talk show and not fly in? Well, because he can't really fly that's why.

Let's go over this using Superman as an example. I love Superman, the comics, the movies (well almost all of the movies). I love how he swoops out of the sky and rescues a man or women falling from a tall building. That's fantasy though and it's entertainment. Now in reality if Superman caught a person falling at 120 mph and he was flying at say, 600 mph, what would happen to that person falling upon Superman catching them? Well they would be dead, not saved.

Superman, Cooperfield also, would then be able to also control or manipulate gravity. Float, turn, spin while in the air....a bird, whom can fly because they are hardwired to do so, can't even do these things without external movement. Look at a Humingbird hover, it's beautiful to watch but notice the wings moving? Last time I saw these guys levitate nothing was moving on them so this means they can then break the force of gravity and deny or manipulate its effects.

Everyone has presuppositions and yours is to believe in it. It would take Cooperfield showing you how it's done in order to convince you that it's a trick BUT even then, considering your presupposition to believe, you may still not be convinced.

Anyone talk about his water-walking?.... I liked, anyone debunk that one?

Originally posted by dnero6911
Anyone talk about his water-walking?.... I liked, anyone debunk that one?

Debunk it? Why? It's not like he can really walk on water. It's a trick, an illusion.

I watched the film and in one of the very last frames of the film you can see an edge of what seems to be a clear platform of sorts as he steps with his right foot.

The question to ask is how did he make it look like he was walking on water?

I lose respect of him since I saw Voodoo Doll magic.

sorry if i'm later than everyone else, i just found this on google and i've been reading it.

i don't know what to think about him. there are explanations for most of his illusions, but they don't seem likely in the settings that he's in. there are also some that could not possibly be staged or set up.

1. "buried alive" - unless he wasn't in the box to start, then he had to have climbed out through the dirt
   
2. when he swallowed the quarter and pulled it out through his arm.
   
3. when he cut himself in half!!!
   
4. when he made the elephant disappear - the spectators were holding hands 360 degrees around the elephant..and there was a spectator camera
   
5. so many more that i just can't think of right now
   

and really - why would he do this unless it was real? seriously, how many people would listen to a 40 year old man saying "i'm going to have wires strapped to me, and it's going to look like i'm levitating. i need you to pretend to be surprised, okay? this is going on my a&e show mindfreak and the wires will be taken out so it looks like i'm floating."

seriously, you people are saying that they're acting students, but what acting student in their right mind would do that?

comments?

UnrealZA,

Thank you for being on the side of logic! I applaud you. Christ, it irritates me when people say things like "Oh it's just an illusion you didn't really go anywhere, etc." (Nothing personal.) People who believe that, to me, are coming from a pretty self-centered perception of the world - that the world is just what THEY perceive it as. Not to mention that it's almost entirely impossible to argue against these kind of statements, because to them, it's all fake! Emotions, pain, good people, bad people, murder, just every day life. If life is an illusion, then it sure is a damn good one, and it's been a damn good one for billions of years...unless of course you believe that History didn't really happen. Yes, light reflects off of objects to make color and to make it visible to the human eye, but that's simply the way we are able to see objects. It doesn't mean that the object isn't really there, or that it's only shaped that way because we perceive it to be. Bats don't see, and I'd wager that if me and a bat were headed towards a brick wall with only one way to go around, the bat would go the same direction as me. The bat being unable to visually perceive the wall, and me having a different way to perceive the wall doesn't make it not there.

And about Criss Angel. To me, he sort of ruined the fun of watching magic tricks. See, deep down we all know it's fake, but the excitement of watching magic is illuminated when the magician makes the trick look real enough that it leaves room for that small part of your brain to want to believe it. For example - some of David Blaine's tricks. When I watch them, I know they're fake, bit it's intriguing because of how real he makes the tricks seem. I want to try to explain them, etc. But Criss Angel goes too far. He does tricks that are so advanced that the only way it can possibly be explained is with a payed audience, a camera crew, and probably a studio for a lot of the tricks. I've seen him walk on water, and from all the explanations I've heard, there's a glass plank just about an inch under the water. You can't see it from above, but it's there for him to walk on. When the camera angle switches, you can see his posture change and that's most likely because he was being pulled on wires. The people in the pool are just paid to act surprised.

And there you have it. It's no fun when he doesn't leave room for possibility.

in My Opinion....

There's nothing "paranormal" about Chris Angel...

There's nothing "peranormal" about cameras, angles, people willing to participate and deception...

its all a trick.. one way or another...

he doesn't levitate, walk on water, manipulate objects through other objects, etc.


again IMO

Originally posted by xxxSCENE

1. "buried alive" - unless he wasn't in the box to start, then he had to have climbed out through the dirt
   
2. when he swallowed the quarter and pulled it out through his arm.
   
3. when he cut himself in half!!!
   
4. when he made the elephant disappear - the spectators were holding hands 360 degrees around the elephant..and there was a spectator camera
   

But these are all classic illusions that people have been doing for hundreds of years. In fact illusionists rarely invent anything totally new, most of the tricks are just variations of classics. Harry Houdini invented the vanishing elephant trick, though I'm sure quite different techniques are used now.

seriously, you people are saying that they're acting students, but what acting student in their right mind would do that?

Ones who need money?

The taxi had very stiff shocks on the front when he dropped it. Anyone familar with race suspension or just standard coils/struts could tell the difference. Anyone know the front weight of a crown vic that would allow "X" amount of rear weight to allow it to be lifted with "X" amount of pressure?

The race car I wonder if its a 3 chamber box you take the best 3 statistics and once you know the answer you turn the key a certain way so it fumble the proper tube to the top. They never show the inside of the box and the depth.

more 'arguments' toward his legitimacy

1. walking through glass
   
2. going through the security truck
   
3. the scam episode - sure it's not magic, but it proves that he's not faking everything.
   
4. he says that he does all this stuff in his live shows - if he used wires to walk up walls, then the entire audience would be able to see the wires.
   
5. how'd he do the thing on 'burned alive' when the fire extinguisher guy turned into him or whatever?
   
6. i can't remember any others
   

yeah comments on that??

I saw a video on Youtube that had Criss show how he levitated and know it's all ruined for me. Once I saw it i was like 'oh duh"

criss angel is an illusionist/magician. illusions are illusions, not reality.
that means that all the things criss do, are illusions - tricks that are made out to LOOK real, but really aren't. many of these are easily explained, many are a bit harder to get.
i used to watch david copperfield on tv when i was younger, and sure - he did do his lot of "unexplainable" things back then. like making the statue of liberty disappear and stuff.
still, these are just illusions. if we do a quick search for the word "illusion" at dictionary.com, we get this:

il·lu·sion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-lzhn)
n.

1.
a. An erroneous perception of reality.
b. An erroneous concept or belief.
2. The condition of being deceived by a false perception or belief.
3. Something, such as a fantastic plan or desire, that causes an erroneous belief or perception.
4. Illusionism in art.
5. A fine transparent cloth, used for dresses or trimmings.

so, an illusion tricks us into seeing stuff.

the part where criss supposedly walks through a window can easily be explained by some sort of fake window - i read something about that (can't remember where, though). that probably, the main part of the window, that criss goes through, is a fake part that can slide down to create a hole. this is probably why the spectators that hold the piece of paper up against the window have to be sure it doesn't touch the window.
also, if it was really true - if he really could walk through the window - why would he want to be covered up whilst doing it? i know for sure that i myself would have wanted to share it with everyone, make sure that they could see it happen.

now, i've only seen two illusions by him - the window trick, and another trick..
where he splits a girl in two, and her upper body starts "running" away.
THAT i don't understand. i cannot understand what's happening there, if i so put my whole brain into it. the only thing i can come up with for an explanation, is special effects.

anybody else seen that clip? i think it's on youtube, probably is.
oh, and sorry if that particular thing has been discussed before, i've not read the whole thread. :p

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Deepness stated:

Everything you are looking at is 99.99% nothing.
Why do we see things all around us then?
Because have been gifted with the powers of creation, to create our own reality.
Thus what you see is what you believe. You have created your own version of reality.
There is no such thing as reality outside of you... Its inside your head.

This is illogical. How then are you in my own reality? Did I not create it, according to you? If so then you do not exsist for you are my creation. Deepness wants us to believe we have created our own reality, goes on to explain how it works, denying Absolutes while doing so, then states:

Deepness stated:

Your brain selectively will eliminate any data that it does not believe and not even show it to you. Its true!

You have contradidted yourself over and over in your statment. You believe all is an illusion yet to even know this you MUST know what reality is in order to make a judgment as to what an illusion is.

As for Angel, Blaine and all others who perform these tricks/illusions, yes they are just that...tricks and illusions. Someone brought up Randi and his offer of 1 million dollars to anyone who can demonstrate unworldly powers yet it has not been taken by anyone as of yet.

Now perhaps Cooperfield has enough millions already, Blaine and maybe Angel are doing OK also BUT "IF" Angel does have these powers to levitate and move through solid objects then why not do this under and in a controlled enviroment? It would put all this to rest, correct? The reason he can't or won't is the same reason Benny Hinn doesn't go to the hospital ward and heal all those cancer patients.....THERE IS NOTHING IN IT FOR THEM! No lights, camera, fame...no audience. Going to a faithhealers show is like going to a rock concert...I say this even though I am a Believer in Christ.

I've read pages1-12 of this thread and now I found a sensible post Nice!

We may all say our stuffs to defend our beliefs, either it's plain tricks or with paranormal abilities, or even none of these options.

Don't try to hurt yourself. You can't reconcile to "believe what you see" coz you're actually can't believe and trust your senses and what your brain immediately dictates you. You should know your capacity and limitations, you can't get through in my brain nerves nor in angel's.

You can't even expect anyone to do as you like (even its the most logical one) because we have different preferences and intentions. So, even if you pay me a billion dollars to show off my abilities, if I don't feel like it, you can't just push me.

And now, based on what I know, and what I don't know — Criss Angel is a magician/illusionist, a tv permormer/entertainer with some tricks and cool stuffs to show to our amazement. But don't just think he only has one way of doing these. Defying the laws of science known to man (ex. physics) is a great deal, and beyond the capabilities of human flesh alone, but is still possible.

(If you disagree to what I'm saying, I don't care!)

Laws of Physics are not the only thing to consider here. Truth/Reality is not confined to your limited minds — it exists even without your consent, or even if you cease to exist!

The common word for it that I may use for your understanding is = "SPIRIT"

If you don't believe to spirits (in its real sense), you just can't understand it in your own way. Try to learn first the simple matters that your eyes can see before trying to figure out the complex things beyond the limits of your senses.

Be appreciatitive of what you have now, what you know now. Value these even the things that your don't have now, and what you don't know now.

Thanks to whom it deserves.

- caranijuan (philippines)