Karma...can you explain?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
soooooooooooo what did all those people in asia do that caused a tsunami ?????? musta been pretty naughty !

Its the same as asking why this or that person died from (Insert reason here).

Its just how some things go, just because something dont make sense doesnt mean it shouldnt have happened.

Maybe these people in one life or another built up enough bad Karma to have this sort of thing happen.

Only They know why it happened, its not for us to judge on why or how it couldnt have been avoided.

Remember Do unto others as they dont to you 3x's better 3x's worse.

[edit on 7/24/2005 by ThichHeaded]

I had intended to let that comment about the Tsunami go because too many people lost their lives to use it as a cheap throw-away line. But since you have address it Thicheaded I guess I will as well.

Think about the life of a single person, how many choices does it contain? Millions perhaps? How many other people does one life touch, hundreds, thousands?

My point is that the life of even a single indivdual is so complex that many times the reasons for things that happen are very difficult to understand. The reasons exist, but it can be the work of many hours just to understand even a single event.

The Karma of a Nation, or a Planet, well that is just beyond our comprehension at this time. It is simplistic, and I am fairly sure quite wrong to look at something like the Tsunami in this fashion.

Someone suggested to me that perhaps I should look at it from the point of view of the Earth as another living being. I am still considering this idea but it does have some merit. I certainly see the Earth as alive but how that fits into the Karma concept is another question.


A.T
(-)

And it's also been suggested that....

Karma does not only apply to one lifetime; following this, it would be theoretically plausible that (to use a previous poster's example) the child born with a deadly disease was simply fulfilling a karmic debt perhaps gained over one or many past lives.

Another common use of this theory is the entire "the rapist will become the victim in the next life" basis.

Though it's not nice to contemplate, and people generally do balk at the suggestion that "Well, you were a victim in this life because in a past life you really victimised someone else", there is a sense of logic there if we view it from a completely objective, non-emotional viewpoint.

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
I had intended to let that comment about the Tsunami go because too many people lost their lives to use it as a cheap throw-away line. But since you have address it Thicheaded I guess I will as well.

I only adressed it cause someone was wondering about it also.

I probably would have blown past it also, but I guess its a good question.

Alot of people where asking this after 9/11, why did all these people die and so on. All that comes to mind is the payback of Karma.

Think of it like this, for all the bad things we do, we are givin back in one way or another. whether good or bad but its given back. We just have to deal with it and learn from what we did wrong and make it better than the last time around.

Karma is basecally to keep you in a good road...

you know .."what goes around comes around", thats for both good and bad...if you do good, good things and deeds will come to you... if you do bad ...

im not sure but i think "white Witches " have that too, as in...if you place a bad spell, it will come back 3 times "badder" to you...( white witches is not referring to race, oit aplies to the anture of the spells)

Karma is the law of cause and effect, or causality, which points to the spiritual truth that we are all ultimately held accountable for our actions and even our intentions. That is why it is so important to strive to treat others as you would have them treat you and why a version of The Golden Rule is found in basically all the world's religions.

But then comes the heated issue of why bad things happen to good people...

In the overall sense, cosmic justice does not occur in the flesh but in the discarnate dimensions; by a soul's ability or inability to unite with The Light Of The God Force. The greater a soul's ability to love genuinely and deeply, which corresponds to the ability to Radiate Spiritual White Light, the further the soul can ascend into The Light after bodily death. The higher the discarnate dimension, the more powerful the plane of energy and the greater the expansion of consciousness. When one can ascend/expand in the Spirit to the point of being powerful enough to create matter on an individual basis, then that soul is considered to be God Realized.

Souls that follow a path of evil to innocents damage their god spark as well as their ability to unite with The Light after bodily death; this results in them also damaging their inner moral aptitude in being able to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil. That is why rapists and murderers have great difficulty in defining evil, as they have damaged or destroyed their ability to discern the difference.

"Evil contains the seeds of its own destruction."

Souls who follow a path of evil do not survive themselves in the Spirit. This is the true meaning of "damnation" in the Bible -- to no longer exist in any capacity from an inability to unite with The Light that Near Death Experiencers often report "at the end of the tunnel."

"The meek shall inherit the earth" is another biblical reference to those souls who manage to survive themselves in the Spirit in order to incarnate again.

So karma ultimately boils down to the ability to access energy when free of matter, to find long-term contentment in the Spirit, as well as the ability to exist eternally.

For example, a morally responsible life of service-to-others (STO) is rewarded in the Spirit with expanded consciousness and the corresponding level of energy. Conversely, a decadent life of service-to-self (STS) prevents the soul from ascending/expanding to a dimension after death that is spiritual and emotionally satisfying. 



[edit on 25-7-2005 by Paul_Richard]

Try thinking of karma spelled backwards as a lot of mystic wisdom has been anagrammed, especially in the English language.
A-mark which we all have to a degree.

Souls who follow a path of evil do not survive themselves in the Spirit. This is the true meaning of "damnation" in the Bible -- to no longer exist in any capacity from an inability to unite with The Light that Near Death Experiencers often report "at the end of the tunnel."

"The meek shall inherit the earth" is another biblical reference to those souls who manage to survive themselves in the Spirit in order to incarnate again.

So karma ultimately boils down to the ability to access energy when free of matter, to find long-term contentment in the Spirit, as well as the ability to exist eternally.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that souls with bad karma suffer eternal "erasure", in a sense? That good karma is what allows a person to even _have_ a soul?

Personally, I see karma somewhat like static electricity between people. The modern day word would be "drama", as in, making big deals about stuff and getting in big arguments, etc. I see drama as karma, in many ways.

When you are creating drama in people's lives, either good, bad or benign, you are creating ripples in the ocean of human consciousness. The larger question would be: "Are these ripples good for us, if we are trying to transcend our flesh?"

If asked, I'd say that karma means keeping ones-self free from unrewarding emotional imbalances, either long-term or momentary, in relation to others. It is particularly helpful to relate the emotional ripples you create to the resulting larger waveforms that then occur inside the heads of those around you (who are affected by your creating karma/drama). By observing the effects of drama/karma on other's lives, we should be able to see that much of what we worry about is really very stupid and banal, or so the belief goes.

I like to look at it as a daily thing, like a rating of how smoothly I interacted with others. Did I take anyone's responsibilities upon myself today? Did I give uninvited advice to anyone today? Did I try to make someone else's decision for them today?

If not, it was probably a good day. I did not affect ripples in other people's ponds.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that souls with bad karma suffer eternal "erasure", in a sense? That good karma is what allows a person to even _have_ a soul?

Anyone with emotions has a soul. The soul consists of a form of energy that can transcend matter when free of it. In order for that energy to exist eternally, it must unite with The Light of God when it crosses over to Spirit. If the soul rejects the lessons of the life review, whereby all the actions of the individual are shown as well as the effect of those actions on all applicable persons, and refuses to take responsibility for misdeeds, then that soul is unable to ascend beyond the lower regions.

Retrogression and progression is how karma ultimately balances out. The reason why evil forces have never been totally successful in taking over Creation is because of their retrogression away from The Light. When evil people cross over, they still have the same sadistic tendencies and spiritually retarded personalities. They usually continue on a path of abuse to innocents. This causes them to spiral down into nonexistence.

A really good example of this are the forces that powered Nazi Germany. Millions of discarnates gave Adolf Hitler a Gift of Charisma and Prophecy and empowered the entire Nazi movement and German nationalism. (Much like what is currently going on in Red China, who is preparing to expand their empire -- starting with Taiwan.) The unethical acts of the Nazis toward innocents caused the Group Entities that empowered and worked through them to retrogress into oblivion. There is a discarnate facet in every war and it greatly impacts who wins.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Personally, I see karma somewhat like static electricity between people. The modern day word would be "drama", as in, making big deals about stuff and getting in big arguments, etc. I see drama as karma, in many ways.

In certain ways it is like drama. The drama of life.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
When you are creating drama in people's lives, either good, bad or benign, you are creating ripples in the ocean of human consciousness. The larger question would be: "Are these ripples good for us, if we are trying to transcend our flesh?"

That is a question we should all ask ourselves constantly. The guideline for addressing that important spiritual decision is The Golden Rule.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
If asked, I'd say that karma means keeping ones-self free from unrewarding emotional imbalances, either long-term or momentary, in relation to others.

That would be one way of looking at it.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
It is particularly helpful to relate the emotional ripples you create to the resulting larger waveforms that then occur inside the heads of those around you (who are affected by your creating karma/drama). By observing the effects of drama/karma on other's lives, we should be able to see that much of what we worry about is really very stupid and banal, or so the belief goes.

Being in the flesh is inherently a stressful situation, partly because everything is constantly in motion.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I like to look at it as a daily thing, like a rating of how smoothly I interacted with others. Did I take anyone's responsibilities upon myself today? Did I give uninvited advice to anyone today? Did I try to make someone else's decision for them today?

The best approach is the one you are espousing: to carefully analyze one's actions and intentions and to take it a day at a time, an hour at a time, and minute by minute whenever necessary.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
If not, it was probably a good day. I did not affect ripples in other people's ponds.

We are judged also by our intentions. If we inadvertently do something that was unintended, the karmic ramifications are not as severe on us; as opposed to doing an evil thing intentionally.

Karma when talking about one person

Many religions got their own idea how it works, but how many of them have visited the universal library and spend weeks following people around and looking at their karma meter?

karma is actually a very simple thing, but people add stuff to it saying that's karma as well while it has nothing to do with it.

when your sole is born you got 0 karma and from that point on you will gain or lose karma. there are many ways to gain or lose it and it's fluctuating almost constantly. karma does NOT represent good or wrong it represents how you fair against balance.

when you do something that aids the balance you gain karma, if you do something to upset the balance you will lose karma. it's that simple. however...your karma will fluctuate with higher jumps depending on the severity of your impact as well as how aware are you of what you are doing? the more you know the harder you will be punished/rewarded because you can't hide behind the fact that you didn't knew.

an average human sits between 30-45 karma points throughout their live and the next. you just don't go up and down in large jumps hehe. only the way down goes hard for people and can only be done by killing someone. and when you killed too much you upset the balance. when your karma hits the negative side they'll consider about taking you back. so they'll cause an accident or cause you to commit suicide.

people say karma is to say that it measures your life lessons that still need to be learned. this is not so. sure you got life lessons to learn and need to have fun in your life. but it's not the life lessons that cause your karma to fluctuate, it's your decision/action on how to deal with the life lessons that make your karma fluctuate.

things come back in 3 fold at you has nothing to do with karma either. what you give, is what you get...that is correct. but it has to do with another aspect of life which at this time is to hard to explain. I can't find the right words for it.


Planets as living beings...well depends really. not every planet has a spirit in it, but earth does. Gaia has commited herself eternally to this planet. thing is you need very old and wise spirits to manifest themselves into a planet and there aren't many of the caliber "i can guard and maintain a planet"

the Karma of this planet is very complex. we also have to deal with the # that happened in the past such as wars etc.

then i also saw the tsunami being mentioned. people think it's something special, but when you look at things...nature is taking more and more lives past few years. more then usual. why? because there are too many souls here which are upsetting the balance. it's a simple matter of clean up. taking them back home and reincarnating them on another planet for the time being.

my karma goes up and down in big jumps. i actually spend karma on getting things i want.

in short, ignore karma....it's of no use to most of you and it does not say whether you're a good person or an evil one. grow in wisdom and have fun in life. when making a decision be aware about it's concequences on others and reactions it might cause and always take responsibility whether it's outcome it positive or negative to you. always do what makes you feel good and ignore what society things what is good for you. stop thinking in an earthly fashion and see the bigger picture

[edit on 27-7-2005 by Enyalius]

It is a popular New Age idea, often furthered by Group Entities in the Mid and Lower Realms, that there is a state of consciousness or a level of evolution that is beyond Good and Evil. In my opinion and experience in dealing with discarnate demonic attack and in counseling people with who have suffered from demonic attack, that this is utter nonsense. If anything, Good and Evil becomes even more important after we leave the flesh and see in our life review how our actions and even our intentions affected those in our sphere of influence.

There is no dimension that is beyond Good and Evil. We become highly evolved by emphasizing the Good in us by serving others, striving to live by The Golden Rule, and Radiating Love.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by Paul_Richard]

no idea what kind of ideology it is. it's just the way i experienced it. as for demons they're not evil according to universal standards. they're just one side of the same coin. and you need em no matter what.they just do what they have to do. it's by people standards that they are considered evil, because...well people don't like chaos in their lives.

but if you study the bible or something you'll notice that angles aren't the nicest of beings either. and when you see them in action ... damn they aint nice at all once they have to wipe out an entire civilisation for the greater good

Originally posted by Enyalius
no idea what kind of ideology it is. it's just the way i experienced it. as for demons they're not evil according to universal standards.

Let me give you a classic example of this.

A Group Entity torments someone, be it emotionally, through nightmares, and through other methods of psychic abuse. Usually, no significant beings of light come to defend the innocent. What stops the abuse is that the abusers lessen their ability to unite with The Light of God, which weakens them. Their consciousness literally shrinks until it no longer exists. This ends the abuse completely.

The Light Of The God Force, which is nonliving, judges those who pursue sadistic acts against innocents, to be evil, and literally destroys them indirectly. It happens all the time and is the reason why evil forces have never been totally successful in taking over Creation.

"Evil contains the seeds of its own destruction."

Originally posted by Enyalius
they're just one side of the same coin. and you need em no matter what.they just do what they have to do. it's by people standards that they are considered evil, because...well people don't like chaos in their lives.

but if you study the bible or something you'll notice that angles aren't the nicest of beings either. and when you see them in action ... damn they aint nice at all once they have to wipe out an entire civilisation for the greater good

I totally agree that basically spiritual entities or angels, who usually work in Group Entities, also have big problems. In fact, I have come to learn that the entire Bible was not inspired by The Original Creator at all, but by Group Entities. Which is why the spiritual and metaphysical framework in the Bible is fragmented, distorted, and incomplete.

Typically, angel collectives promote a false hierarchy of gods.

In my many years of experience as a spiritual medium, I have found that discarnate Saints are much more objective and do not have an ax to grind in promoting a false hierarchy. If you want the absolute truth, these represent the best source of information that is available in the Spirit at this time.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by Paul_Richard]

Retrogression and progression is how karma ultimately balances out. The reason why evil forces have never been totally successful in taking over Creation is because of their retrogression away from The Light. When evil people cross over, they still have the same sadistic tendencies and spiritually retarded personalities. They usually continue on a path of abuse to innocents. This causes them to spiral down into nonexistence.

How does that spiralling into nonexistence work? For example, the souls that we saw who were named Hitler, Goebbels and Mengele. Is it possible that souls like these could have enough of god's light (if I'm phrasing it right) to still incarnate again? Or, if not, what is their state?

I have heard you state this before, but it seems to be a very different thing than what most people believe, so I think a little more clarification could help. Belief in rebirth seems to imply that all souls can be saved. You are saying that in fact, souls of this ilk are sort of 'burned away', by what is actually the love/light of God?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Retrogression and progression is how karma ultimately balances out. The reason why evil forces have never been totally successful in taking over Creation is because of their retrogression away from The Light. When evil people cross over, they still have the same sadistic tendencies and spiritually retarded personalities. They usually continue on a path of abuse to innocents. This causes them to spiral down into nonexistence.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
How does that spiralling into nonexistence work? For example, the souls that we saw who were named Hitler, Goebbels and Mengele. Is it possible that souls like these could have enough of god's light (if I'm phrasing it right) to still incarnate again? Or, if not, what is their state?

When we leave the flesh, we all experience a life review whereby we get to see clearly and objectively how all the things we did in life affected those around us directly and indirectly. Any and all misgivings must be counterbalanced in order to slowly ascend to a spiritual place. This means that anyone that was mistreated significantly must be compensated through love, healing, guidance, etc.

Those who have horrendous karmic debts to many innocents are overwhelmed by the burden. Combined with the "this spiritual responsibility stuff is BS" attitude, leads the already spiritually retarded to ignore the lessons of the life review and just stay in the lower astral dimensions.

There is also another factor...

Those on the lower discarnate dimensions find camaraderie with one another in their selfish pursuit of sadistic pleasure against innocents. They form Group Entities to have the power to effectively do this. (They also seek power for its own sake.) Consequently, they retrogress away from The Light even more and eventually shrink their consciousness into total nonexistence.

What happens to people who are on a path of selfish and irresponsible sadistic pleasure to innocents? Whether they were famous or powerful in life makes no difference to their fate: they destroy themselves. It happens every single day.

The Bible alludes to this cosmic principle: "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord."

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I have heard you state this before, but it seems to be a very different thing than what most people believe, so I think a little more clarification could help. Belief in rebirth seems to imply that all souls can be saved. You are saying that in fact, souls of this ilk are sort of 'burned away', by what is actually the love/light of God?

They are not burned away. What happens is that their actions of evil to innocents weakens their ability to unite or ascend into The Light of God. When they completely destroy their ability to ascend into The Light, they completely unite with darkness. When a soul completely unites with darkness, it no longer exists and cannot incarnate again.

Souls destroy themselves indirectly through their own retrogression away from The Light as a result of their spiritually indifferent and sadistic focus.

Think about all the rapists and murderers and torturers throughout history. Their personalities did not alter just because they crossed over into Spirit. They continued to have the same focus and pursue the same kind of activities. This resulted in their complete annihilation.

"The meek shall inherit the earth."

Those on the lower discarnate dimensions find camaraderie with one another in their selfish pursuit of sadistic pleasure against innocents.

Paul, you have said in other posts that you believe some men are not just magicians (Blaine, Criss Angel, etc) but are in fact gifted psychics with telekinetic gifts resulting from their own particular group entities. Their group entities have given men like this special powers in their present incarnations, so that they can accomplish the earthly goals of their group entity. Do I understand this correctly?

My question pertains to the karmic status of men like this. If what you suggest is true, how is it that these guys are just doing parlor tricks and goofy crap? Is this an indication that their karma is flatlined and that they are doomed to oblivion when they die? If so, would it be possible for these guys to decide to use their talents for something their group entity did not agree with, perhaps something very noble and good, thereby saving their own souls in this life while rejecting their GE?

Also, can we assume that there are similarly TK gifted souls who are not seeking fame and who are using their gifts for healing and good works as opposed to cheap tricks? If so, I'd like to hear you talk more about the karmic issues these two groups of TK gifted people (magicians vs. real-healers) would face down here.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Those on the lower discarnate dimensions find camaraderie with one another in their selfish pursuit of sadistic pleasure against innocents.

Paul, you have said in other posts that you believe some men are not just magicians (Blaine, Criss Angel, etc) but are in fact gifted psychics with telekinetic gifts resulting from their own particular group entities. Their group entities have given men like this special powers in their present incarnations, so that they can accomplish the earthly goals of their group entity. Do I understand this correctly?

Yes...that's basically it.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
My question pertains to the karmic status of men like this. If what you suggest is true, how is it that these guys are just doing parlor tricks and goofy crap? Is this an indication that their karma is flatlined and that they are doomed to oblivion when they die?

Humorous term: Flatlined Karma.

Group Entities are limited in power to what they can do. You will never find a prophet who channels a GE that has the ability to heal dozens of people a day of terminal illness. GE's cannot generate enough energy to manifest major miracles, like stopping a hurricane or earthquake, creating food to feed millions of starving people, etc. The manifestations of a Group Entity indicate the level of energy and size of the collective.

The karma of the prophet or telekinetic who channels a Group Entity is intertwined with that discarnate collective.

Take for example, Sai Baba. His Gifts made him the most successful Swami in India. But he became a sexual predator of young men and boys at his ashram. The Group Entity that worked through him also played a role because they supported him in his sexual abuse to innocents and lusty homosexual conquests. (There are also allegatinos that he actually had people murdered at his ashram that opposed him politically.)

Consequently, Sai Baba significantly retrogressed and his Group Entity destroyed itself completely a number of times through the years from furthering unethical activities through their prophet and other abusive activities. Sai Baba also faces oblivion when he leaves his body.

To be a prophet for a large Group Entity is glorious for a time but it detracts from an individualistic pursuit of selflessness and spiritual discipline that is needed in order to truly evolve into Sainthood and beyond.

I have never known or heard about a prophet that has ever amounted to anything in the spiritual sense. Most of them fall onto a path of abuse to one or more innocents and eventually retrogress into oblivion when in the Spirit.

However, a prophet doesn't automatically fall into nothingness when no longer in the flesh. But the pampering, reverence, wealth and adulation that they receive in life for their Gifts and not for their character, service, etc., results in them becoming spoiled, arrogant and abusive to innocents. Much like the spoiled and sadistic kings and queens of old that no longer exist in any capacity.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
If so, would it be possible for these guys to decide to use their talents for something their group entity did not agree with, perhaps something very noble and good, thereby saving their own souls in this life while rejecting their GE?

This would be a rare occurrence. It would be like a millionaire giving away all his money and ending all his friendships in order to pursue a more spiritual path. How often to you hear about that happening?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Also, can we assume that there are similarly TK gifted souls who are not seeking fame and who are using their gifts for healing and good works as opposed to cheap tricks? If so, I'd like to hear you talk more about the karmic issues these two groups of TK gifted people (magicians vs. real-healers) would face down here.

It is difficult to differentiate between "real healers" and the "TK gifted." I have known people with a Gift of Healing that used that Gift to help others but who did not grow to a point of stable Sainthood in life because they relied too much on their channeled ability. One must remember that when someone heals, it is Spirit working through them that does the healing. There is no real growth involved for the healer. For growth to be involved, the healer would need to do more than just be a vessel for healing energy -- like perform Heart Chakra Radiance daily. Not many people with a Gift of Healing or Telekinesis feel that they need to really work on themselves spiritually. Their Gifts distort the value to really apply themselves in order to evolve.

There is another facet to this...

People with a Gift of Healing are emotionally, spiritually and telepathically aligned with a Group Entity in the Mid or Lower Realms. To progress beyond that GE would make it difficult for the discarnate collective to feel comfortable working through and around them. So there is the issue of the GE itself being opposed to any substantial growth of their prophet.

>I'm still awaiting an answer to this question? What did this people
>do to deserve such horrifying devistation and destruction?

I think the problem is with the simplicity of the answer that you are being given. The notion of "karma" as "an eye for an eye," or "the law of three," or "you reap what you sow," are all, if you'll forgive me...gross simplifications.

Allow me to share another perspective.

Yes, for all action there is reaction, but I propose that the universe is infinitely more complicated than "what is done by you will be done to you."

For instamce, if I drop a rock over a pool of water, that is an action. What is the reaction? Does the water drop a rock back at me? No. The rocks falls. It breaks the surface tension of the water. Ripples are created. Many things happen, but none of them are as simple as "an eye for an eye" or any of the other answers you've been given.

Any time you act, there will be a reaction. It therefore behooves you to strive to understand your actions, and be willing to accept responisbility for them. You ARE responsible for your actions, and you will bear their consequence, but not in any childish sense of a Divine Father figure coming down and commanding punishment or reward.

When an ant in your kitchen wanders off of the counter and onto a live cooking range, she will very likely melt and die.. Is this a "just" or "fair" result? You would probably say no. But, "justice and "fairness" are human concepts. There is what is, and regardless of what you or I may think of as being "proper" the fact is that wandering out onto a heated cooking range results in death to an ant.

This is karma

Consider an expression like "as you reap, so shall you sow." Is that true? Well, not really. When you plant corn seeds do you sow corn seeds? No. You sow corn. Action and reaction need not be equal, nor equivalent.

Understanding karma is understanding that with every word, thought and action, you create a tangible "ripple" in the universe around you. The ripples that you create blend with the ripplies of those around you, and collectively all of our ripples create the world we live in.

Whether you understand the consequences of your actions is irrelevant. Whether the consequences fit into some human notion of punishment and reward is also irrelevant. Action begets consequence.

Know this, and you will understand karma.

First, my metaphysical investigations have led me to learn that insects generally have no souls. They are small biological beings that have no consciousness beyond their bodies. Their purpose on this planet is just to be part of the food chain. On the other hand, most animals do have souls.

Secondly, the physical spectrum is constantly in a state of motion, which makes it inherently dangerous to those who are incarnate. Everyone knows -- in various degrees of awareness -- that when they come into the flesh, that there is a certain degree of pain that will be experienced and a high degree of risk that greater pain will occur. The people who are victims of earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc., do not cause them to occur from their actions relating to karma; these are part of the precarious program of human existence. The only way they can escape being victimized in this way is to never incarnate again and to stay in the Spirit -- which is why many who have had horrendous lives have elected to do just that.

We must remember that being in a physical body is a temporary situation and not representative of our true home. The Primary Reality is not the flesh or "World of Illusion" but the discarnate dimensions. It is only there that we will ever find long-term contentment from leading a spiritual existence.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by smallpeeps
If so, would it be possible for these guys to decide to use their talents for something their group entity did not agree with, perhaps something very noble and good, thereby saving their own souls in this life while rejecting their GE?

This would be a rare occurrence. It would be like a millionaire giving away all his money and ending all his friendships in order to pursue a more spiritual path. How often to you hear about that happening?

What about Bruce Wayne?

Anyway, so if I'm reading you right, you're saying that there are disincarnate souls who either (A) fear incarnation and the obvious pain that comes with it. Like the buddha said, "life is pain", and then there's group (B) who aren't afraid of the pain but who do not have enough "ghost juice" or whatever, to incarnate again. Is there any group I missed?

So then, when a guy like Criss Angel, for example, decides to present himself as the antichrist, and he takes over the United Nations, for example, he may in fact call upon his group entity, who may or may not grant him the power to actually fly around like superman or perhaps to act as a great speaker al-la Hitler. In so doing, the unseen members of this group entity are 1: Doomed to failure (don't they know this?) and 2: Risking everything on Criss Angel. He gets to be the capacitor for their spiritual energy, which if used in a hateful way toward innocents, will cause all these souls, including Criss Angel, to devolve into not so much as a spiritual lump of crap. Total nothingness from which they will never return. Do I understand correctly so far?

[edit on 31-7-2005 by smallpeeps]