Well, here it comes NWO through ID Cards

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
I think a national ID Card is the best solution for this terrorist threat.

How? It wouldn't exactly have 'John Smith- Terrorist' on them.. and any terrorist asked to show it would either have a fake one or he/she's a sleeper with an unblemished record.

IT will remove Illegial Aliens,

How? They fake passports.. they'd fake ID cards as well.

Terrorists and really crack down on the bad eggs in society.

No.. if someone is a criminal.. they wouldn't suddenly have a moral aversion to using a fake card. If they are law obiding.. well I'm sure there were many law obiding jews that had to show their papers before they were rounded up with them.

What is to prevent someone abusing such power twenty years in the future? Whats to stop people from being arrested in their own homes because the card identifies them as a crede that has become against the law?

[edit on 18-7-2005 by riley]

Riley you make good points, however, I don't think that these ID's would be nearly as easy to forge, as the passports are.

Originally posted by JBurns
Riley you make good points, however, I don't think that these ID's would be nearly as easy to forge, as the passports are.

There would still be a market for it if there is a demand.. besides which it wouldn't prevent terrorism.. it would only be effective in keeping track of the general population.

Yea some people may not think it's a big deal, but one thing leads to another, the systematic control grid clamps down tighter and tighter, it only sets the stage for more control.

"When you trade liberty for security...you only get tyranny"

Originally posted by DIABOLIC888
Yea some people may not think it's a big deal, but one thing leads to another, the systematic control grid clamps down tighter and tighter, it only sets the stage for more control.

"When you trade liberty for security...you only get tyranny"

So would these ID cards cut a chunk out of your freedom?

Originally posted by GeniusSage

Originally posted by DIABOLIC888
Yea some people may not think it's a big deal, but one thing leads to another, the systematic control grid clamps down tighter and tighter, it only sets the stage for more control.

"When you trade liberty for security...you only get tyranny"

So would these ID cards cut a chunk out of your freedom?

Originally posted by GeniusSage

Originally posted by DIABOLIC888
Yea some people may not think it's a big deal, but one thing leads to another, the systematic control grid clamps down tighter and tighter, it only sets the stage for more control.

"When you trade liberty for security...you only get tyranny"

So would these ID cards cut a chunk out of your freedom?

Are you kidding me? What ever happened to something called "Freedom of choice?" Maybe some people don't want any type of new system pushed on them. It's a new system, anything that tries to regulate us, can't be good. The point is with ID cards microchips etc. people don't need a "mark" to show that they are a good person and not a terrorist. We're not cattle people, we don't need to be branded. ID cards etc. it's not going to stop anything, ask who stand to gain? none of us, the nwo does.

I.D. cards have been talked about for years, even in Australia in the early 80's the government was talking about a national card to help cut down on tax and welfare cheats - surprisingly current Prime Minister Howard was totally against the ID cards in the 80's but today is trying to have Parliment bring in a biometrics database that the cards will be servicing.

The problem with the idea of the cards is biometrics.
The ONLY way for a national ID card to be effective is to have it feature a biometric trait from each person, any lesser measure will be forgable and therefore make the cards and the money spent on the system absolutly pointless when there's already many different national and international forms of ID you can get to prove you are you already.

Now, making a biometric database of a population is very dangerous ground, it's inviting abuse.

Think about it, a populas is sampled and databased. This central database can undoubtable prove who a person is. Sounds great, sounds like Terrorists will have no hope now!

BUT,

What if, as in the case of the London Bombers (if you go along with the official story as it changes), the 'terrorists' are citizens of the country? The London bombers would of all had ID cards if that system was in place, how would it of done anything in that situation? If Al-Qaeda can recruit from all over the world, how long will it take them to work out that if a biometric database is hurting their recruiting, to just start focusing on recruiting those who are already legal citizens to begin with? In the case of the London bombs, they didn't need to recruit and import anyone.

ALSO,

Who has access to the biometric database?
They are saying ID cards will be phazed in by making people present these cards for Medicare issues, drivers licenses, paying bills etc etc, basically if it's something that requires ID, they'll phase in ID cards by making those cards the only acceptable form of ID in a 'post 9-11 world'. People will eventually be forced to eventually comply or be left on the outside.

Who will be monitoring all the different places scanning ID cards and confirming identity with the database? How many different companies will need to have access to the database in order to have a legitamate system in place for varifying new customers or members etc? Who will regulate that access - a government or a private company?

Will things like the much hyped 'bird flu' be a starting block for getting a mass start on the database?
Release a virus, news showing deaths and disease played over and over, TV ads urging people to get the new flu shot because this time it's serious, warning warning, danger danger..... Oh, sorry, you'll need one of the new ID cards before we can administer the flu shot.

It's not hard to bring into play, it's really a matter of what will it achieve besides putting us even further under the thumb of the government? When they have the power to decide what rights we have in relation to whether we have complied by giving our personal biometrics to a database they want to create - the government is no longer working for us anymore, we are slaves to it and we'll be on the road to a prison planet before we realise it.

It only took 15 years for email to go from 'what's an email?' to a standard global form of communication. 15 years after a population is biometrically databased could be very dangerous in what power that takes from us as having a right to exist without being a suspect in a crime that has yet to happen.

Next will come implant chips, when you can't buy anything because money has been devaulated so much that the only form of currency is a global 'credit' system, you'll have little choice.

It didn't take very long at all for America to devalue Iraq's currency and enforce a new currency. The Iraqi's soon worked out they had less and less time to cash in their notes for the new currency or risk having a pile of worthless paper under the new system. People from Fallujah were told to leave the city before the US planned to bomb it heavily, when they were able to return, the US enforced a biometric databasing and an ID card which must be displayed at all times which also limits them from leaving their designated area - not following these new rules resulted in being sent away from Fallujah or deadly force.

They had no choice. Don't think that we will have one either.

Eventually, the 'choice' will come to life or death. Your either with us or against us. Basically a new bully comes on the block and acts like they are giving us an option. You can take our illusionary choice of protection and do it our way or you can be FORCED to be put into the situation, that your somehow against or an enemy of all of Earth. This is not free will. It's a counterfeit free will though.

Excuses are around us everyday nowadays. There's an excuse to why something wasn't done, or possibly was done. Examples being... why didn't I call you last night, why didn't your homework get done? These might instigate a excuse 'on a whim' or something not premeditated before it happened if you might say. Let's chip down excuses and say what they are. Lies. Using an excuse to your favor. The deeper lie might be when it's premeditated as a means to get what you want. Still a lie does the same thing in all of it. Both examples same result. When the result means the same, but in degree the second lie would enable the liar to go through boundaries never realized possible. A lie can permit acceptance of an alternate future perhaps if you will.

Hear ye, hear ye... *this happened and now this is what we NEED to do.

I never signed up for this I say.

Well that's too bad because *this happened and if you don't go along you'll have people curse you (bye-bye comfort zone), institutions persecute you, and basically everything that you had worked for in this illusion bubble... gone.

To me it is the same thing as giving a piece of candy to a child, only to take it away after the first taste. Then saying that if they want the candy, they must get in the car with them.

For those that can't fathom why people are against idcards/chips, consolidation, is because they have been outside the looking glass and started to recognize what the truth of the situation is. Maybe they just noticed something they didn't like and took a different perspective in recognizing things they overlooked when they where in their bubble so to speak.

I would definitely not get implanted by my will, from them as the excuse that I. D. cards are not a viable option, in that they can be stolen easily so we must go up the next step. Come to butthead!

I will not give illusionary authority, authority on my life in the future. You can't trust your eyes in this world, never had much meaning before now.

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
I dont see why they are such a bad IDEA..
In todays technological world, its not really far from reality any ways.

How many of u Use Credit cards, mobile phones ATM Cards, membership cards, and so forth???

ITs not like they CANT track you everywhere now anyways.

And who really cares if the gvt knows u go into the porn shop n buy magazines every friday?

I think a national ID Card is the best solution for this terrorist threat.
IT will remove Illegial Aliens, Terrorists and really crack down on the bad eggs in society.

Why exactly is everyone opposed to it?

individually it amounts to nothing, collectively it amounts to near absolute power. especially when u throw the weight of jail or deportation behind a governents power to issue you an internal passport. Aliens wouldnt be a problem if you had to pay them the same wage as everyone else. Enforcing worker exploitation should be a higher goal to stop illegal immigration. (and stop job loss).

Terrorists have , and will continue to have the resources to duplicate ID cards. A stronger ID card just makes it easier to move around once you have it, real or fake.

And the standardization / tech increase in ID cards will raise the costs of both them and the operating costs of the dmv (and their power), and you end up paying for your own internal passport.

its retarded.

Freedom of choice?
Its not going to REMOVE any liberties you have.
And I agree they will be some thing soo encrypted that only certain readers can read them,
place heaps of password codes encrytpion on them so they are IMOPSSIBLE to fake.

Similar to currency, place watermarks and all these obstacles fraudlent ppl have to over come.

If you all think alqaeda and terrorism is running rampant throughout the country,

Then i dont see the big harm in having a national ID Card.

Setup some committies and independant forums to monitor and create GUIDELINES for what these cards can be used to do..

your all screaming about terrorims and looking for a way to defeat it, yet the most logical one has come to your doorstep and your screaming government consipiracies about world takeovers and sh1t.

beggers cant be choosers.

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
Freedom of choice?
Its not going to REMOVE any liberties you have.
And I agree they will be some thing soo encrypted that only certain readers can read them,
place heaps of password codes encrytpion on them so they are IMOPSSIBLE to fake.

For every code created there is always a way to decode it.

Setup some committies and independant forums to monitor and create GUIDELINES for what these cards can be used to do..

They've already got those kind of things in place for privacy.. and they don't work adequately.. 'independent forums' always sell information under the table.. and 'guidelines' are always changed.

your all screaming about terrorims and looking for a way to defeat it, yet the most logical one has come to your doorstep and your screaming government consipiracies about world takeovers and sh1t.

But the idea is NOT the most logical.. in fact it's not logical at all. What is the point of checking the ID of someone who has ALREADY blown themselves up and taken 50 people with them? That'd be the first clue that they are terrorists so how could it logically 'defeat' terrorism?

[edit on 21-7-2005 by riley]

It would defeat terrorism by slowly pushing them out.
Everytime someone is found without a ID Card, or without a LEGITIMATE ID Card then they are immediately detained for questioning.

I beleive that there should be two sides to an ID Card.

The info on the card u have in ur wallet, and the duplicate copy inside the governement that has a special code on it.

Whe nu query the card on the person, the code at the governmetn side comes in, checks out then you see that this card is a legimate card handed out.

When a terrorist fakes a card, when he's checked, and the government finds out a dulpicate doesnt exist with the code, the nits obvious the card is a fake..

sounds simple to me.

Curroption would be a problem, thast why u get average joe citizen 1 2 3 whom work fulltime jobs w3ith only barely enough money to support themselves, and throw them into the mix.

There's a difference between regular citizens and crook politicans
sorta like jury duty i reackon.

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
It would defeat terrorism by slowly pushing them out.
Everytime someone is found without a ID Card, or without a LEGITIMATE ID Card then they are immediately detained for questioning.

That doesn't answer my question. The first clue that someone is a terrorist is AFTER they've blown themselves and others up. ID cards would only make would be terrorists more careful about covering their tracks.. unlike you average citizen they are careful of all records they'd leave behind.

The info on the card u have in ur wallet, and the duplicate copy inside the governement that has a special code on it.

Whe nu query the card on the person, the code at the governmetn side comes in, checks out then you see that this card is a legimate card handed out.

When a terrorist fakes a card, when he's checked, and the government finds out a dulpicate doesnt exist with the code, the nits obvious the card is a fake..

sounds simple to me.

Just as simple as it would be to fake both cards.. or steal someone else's identity. The plan you've given is.. not realistic. Failsafes are on other things already but there is always a way around it if someone is prepared to find it.

Curroption would be a problem, thast why u get average joe citizen 1 2 3 whom work fulltime jobs w3ith only barely enough money to support themselves, and throw them into the mix.

There's a difference between regular citizens and crook politicans
sorta like jury duty i reackon.

Uh.. Okay. Why is it they don't do this to prevent corruption now? Oh thats right.. people in power actually bnenefit from corruption so weeding it out is not in their interests.. nor is it giving their power to the lower classes. Again.. not very realistic.

I also just came across this regrding the UK model [I'd say they'd be the same across the board anyway]:

An examination of the bill shows that Blunkett is stretching a point. For example, it won't just include your full name, but all the names by which you have ever been known. Not just your address, but all the addresses you have ever lived at. Not just your finger print or iris scan, but a photo as well. Also, your National Insurance number, immigration number, passport number, driving licence number, and, the number of 'any designated document not covered by the above'. Plus if you want to change any information (for which they will charge you, or fine you if you don't change it) the old information also stays on the card.

The ability to check your identity against your entry in the National Identity Register will not just be available to the Immigration Service and the Police but also to "providers of public services and private sector organisations" (e.g. employers, banks, credit reference agencies, libraries, dentists, utilities companies, student loans company etc). The ID Card bill includes a power to require 'any person' to provide information which may be required to conduct background checks on people applying for ID cards.
www.defy-id.org.uk...

Yep.. nothing to worry about there.. what you don't know can't hurt you perhaps?

It's also worth noting that an aussie news website did a poll on whether people would be opposed to having finger prints on ID cards [with no previous 'stories' on the finger print part].. seems the government have more control of the media than I thought.

[edit on 22-7-2005 by riley]

Who's ready to sign their lives over, even more so now?Well folks, first come first serve.We will even set you up with your own pention plan.Hell, no more paying taxes.If people want to give the government more "awareness" of whats going on in your life,sign on up.Ohh.. by the way we decided to use you as a ginnie pig! Sorry soldier, no one goes A-wall on us.You signed your right's over along time ago.Anybody for protocal check points of citizen status.

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
It would defeat terrorism by slowly pushing them out.
Everytime someone is found without a ID Card, or without a LEGITIMATE ID Card then they are immediately detained for questioning.

The problem is, terrorists aren't born as terrorists - they don't list their future plans as "one day dreams of blowing up X number of people on a subway"; they are simply "regular" humans, most with regular attachments to libraries, gyms, etc etc, and who would simply not appear as flaming red blips on the Radar Of Terrorists (acronym ROT, naturally)**.

I think we'd be incredibly naive to think that potential miscreants, terrorists or criminal masterminds wouldn't make absolutely sure that all their "official" paperwork was in order prior to the event.

We'd never know their intent until afterwards, unless by some miracle, they were caught beforehand....which isn't exactly likely. So, it's unlikely that such ID cards would prevent terrorism in this manner. And can you imagine the manpower needed to question every citizen who happens to nip out to the shops without his ID card present? It's not feasible.

** - this is obviously a made-up ideal, and made-up acronym. But very fitting, nonetheless....

Most countries already have some form of ‘card’. Example, in Australia most people have a national health scheme Medicare Card and yet this hasn’t stop the abuse of the system. Granted, these cards do not have a photo on them but lets face it even if they did that wouldn’t stop cards from being copied. Many people have Passports these are supposedly secure but we all know that Passports are faked in the millions photo or no photo.

It has been pointed out in previous posts that millions of people have credit cards (some of those have photos attached) and guess what they are also faked in the millions. Regardless of what technology is used to produce ID cards someone will find a way to produce them illegally.

It has also been stated that we can we ‘tracked’ sure we can but the difference is that all of my details are not in total on a central database. I am not FORCED to carry a card to prove who I am. The push for ID cards has nothing to do with stamping out terrorism for it will NOT stop terrorism. The push for ID cards is about control and once you give your freedoms away you CAN’T take them back.

The message ‘BUYER BEWARE”…


[edit on 23/7/2005 by Lady of the Lake]

"but all the names by which you have ever been known. Not just your address, but all the addresses you have ever lived at. Not just your finger print or iris scan, but a photo as well. Also, your National Insurance number, immigration number, passport number, driving licence number, and, the number of 'any designated document not covered by the above'. Plus if you want to change any information (for which they will charge you, or fine you if you don't change it) the old information also stays on the card."

Do you let them OWN you, or you DO own yourSelf?
We are not flesh and bones. Outside influence will not be tolerated. My soul will not be sequestered! Repent! If you already haven't? Look for and stay focused inward, not for the bigger SELF, but through 'lowly' self. Whose watchful EYE do you have in ALL acts and thoughts? This world is totally got the TRUTH backwards which is why progress seems hard at times. What is your reality?

______________
Main Entry: "lowly"
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): low·li·er; -est
1 : humble in manner or spirit : free from self-assertive pride

Function: adjective
Text: 1 belonging to the class of people of low social or economic rank -- see IGNOBLE
2 not having or showing any feelings of superiority, self-assertiveness, or showiness -- see HUMBLE

Entry Word: "lowly"
Function: adverb
Text: in manner showing no signs of pride or self-assertion
Synonyms deferentially, humbly, meekly, modestly, sheepishly, submissively
Related Words fearfully, timidly; bashfully, diffidently, shyly; civilly, courteously, politely, respectfully
Near Antonyms fearlessly; discourteously, disdainfully, disrespectfully, impertinently, rashly, recklessly, saucily; impolitely, impudently, rudely, ungraciously
Antonyms arrogantly, audaciously, boldly, brashly, brazenly, contemptuously, haughtily, pridefully, proudly, scornfully, swaggeringly

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Entry Word: "egocentric"
Function: adjective
Text: overly concerned with one's own desires, needs, or interests
Synonyms egoistic, egotistic (or egotistical), self-centered, selfish, self-seeking
Related Words complacent, conceited, self-conceited, self-directed, self-important, self-indulgent, self-satisfied, smug, vain
Near Antonyms altruistic, generous, greathearted, magnanimous, self-sacrificing
Antonyms selfless

Main Entry: "ego·cen·tric"
Pronunciation: "E-gO-'sen-trik also "e-
Function: adjective
1 : concerned with the individual rather than society

2 : taking the ego as the starting point in philosophy

3 a : limited in outlook or concern to one's own activities or needs b : SELF-CENTERED, SELFISH
- egocentric noun
- ego·cen·tri·cal·ly /-tri-k(&-)lE/ adverb
- ego·cen·tric·i·ty /-"sen-'tri-s&-tE/ noun
- ego·cen·trism /-'sen-"tri-z&m/ noun


Do you see the duality in parts of ALL things? Truth has always been in our midst. You will Rise to the Truth(think like bread) either you willed know or you didn't know, regardless. But Beware of the 'leaven' of the Pharasees. It's a process. Do you 'twain' in your heart? Are you blessed inward, outward? Seriously, only sometimes do you know? Physically, you are able to employ free will, but spiritually you cannot serve two masters. Suddenly when you decide to make the two... one. And which one did you make it? The numeral one calls out to two and three. Hoping they will see the Truth. Number three might have listened, if not for number two insisting to divert the Truth. For the mastery of three was an illusion. Three different kinds of people. Some that know, that think they know, and those that don't care.

[edit on 7-24-05 by pacman]