What is Fate? Does it exist? Do we determine our path?

If I have a cookie in one hand and an onion in the other and I hold both hands out to my son and tell him to choose - I know which one he is going to choose.

I believe that is how God is. When God gives us choices/free will and tells us to choose, He knows what our choices will be. But that doesn't mean we still don't have the freedom to make the choice. He still gives us the freedom to choose. Afterall, that is the purpose of life - to choose.

Soothsayers, fortune tellers, etc. wouldn't be able to see the future unless the future was already known/predestined. If someone is capable of telling you what is going to happen in the future, then the future must already be established.
Furthermore, the fact that Jesus in the Bible makes predictions on future events tends to make me believe that even then, God/Jesus knew what choices we would make.

Our choices aren't always so obvious as the cookie and the onion, but remember that God is all-knowing/omnipotent. Even before we were conceived, God knew what choices we would make. That doesn't mean though that we don't have the freedom to choose.

God loves us so much that He has given us the freedom to choose. It must have been a difficult decision for God to give us all free will...knowing that so many would not choose Him.

The debate here is between free will and destiny. It's a very old debate for sure. I don't know if this will help you or not but I can tell you how I solved it for myself. Maybe it will help.

Free will and destiny are two perfectly compatible subjects. (This is just an example, adapt it as you will)

When you were born it was destined that you would go to high school. Once you are in high school though you get to choose what classes you take, what order you wish to take them and whether or not you actually learn the lessons being taught. If your not paying attention you might have to attend summer school

You are destined to learn things at this point in your spiritual journey. How you choose to learn them and in what order is up to you. You can rob a bank with a gun or become its president and pencil whip the books. It's up to you.

Free will and pre destiny go hand in hand. Both are conspiring to make you a wiser and more advanced soul.

Just my thoughts,

Wupy

Good thread. At one time I believed in fate and God's plan etc. Then the "Butterfly flapped its' wings" and I had a vasospastic stroke - and died once - during a cerebral-angiogram - Since then I've never been so happy or empowered - now I really do believe we have free will.
I was told to expect to live out my life in a managed care facility - my reaction: "Not on my watch", ala Krantz.
Well things are goin' pretty well - fully ambulatory mentally, spiritually and physically.
BTW: Death isn't scary anymore - met God, had a chat with her or a very cool hallucination - Nice tiny Caribbean lady with enormous hooters - and eyes of knowing. Told me I had work to do and that she wasn't ready for me - yet. Then I heard someone yell - "Clear" and I came back - with a busted sternum and a headache that lasted 3 months.
Now the ONLY thing that scares me even a little bit anymore is America and what it may do under the current regimes' "leadership".

For me, and most here I expect, going to school was demanded by both the Law and more importantly, my parents. Oh, it was Fate alright, from it I know what Destiny would feel like (hint not good).

I find it interesting that as we each walk each step ourselves, we still manage to have a debate over the question of who is really responsible for everything that happens to us.

Predicting the Future is possible based on an Intuitive look at what is likely to happen. If the Future was already written prediction would be easy, and highly accurate. But instead it has always been very inaccurate, and at best only good out to a very short span of years.


A.T
(-)

Things are happening all at once I guess we call intuition because we tap into our other selves and get information that is on a higher level of knowing.Realities are overlapping one another just depending which layer of reality that we are in.If we want to move on as far as being more spiritually attuned everybody will look at every action being their( last) only then do we really apply ourselves without holding back.Our" facade "of reality is the (ego), which governs us through our whole lives unless we challenge the boss.

If the universe is deterministic, i.e. if the universe is governed by a finite set of laws that always produce the same output, given the same input, then the exact moment the universe was born, the fates of all people have been determined.

Why is the above statement true? it is true because if the universe is deterministic, then the path of every particle in the universe can be described from the laws of the universe...which means there is no choice really: the paths of the particles in our brain are the result of the initial state of the universe, and therefore all the output of our brain, and thus all our decisions, are already predetermined.

reply to post by Azathoth


faith is the word created to explain what it is expected to happen.if you like very much something and it is given to you it is "faith".if nothing was given to you and from an early age you were given only what you worked for then there is not faith.yes i believe that we are realy extrodinery but nit all of as.the majority thinks throught the tv,does not have there own opinion.i think that if there is faith or just luck is up to you to decide it is a matter of life and it is your life to decide for...

I think that fate is real. People come into our lives for a reason, although, as they say the reason may not be clear at the time, after the lesson is learned it is more clearer. We can choose to ignore the signs, but the lesson is still going to present itsself at another time.
Ever have the feellings of Deja vu? I think we come back until we get all that we were supposed to learn right. Soul mates, yes, they are real too.

reply to post by DAF


i dont really know what to say because i dont seem to understand what fate really is.The more i try finding wgat this is and has to do with my life i get more and more confused.Can someone drive sense to me because am getting scared of life now more than anything else help me p,lease

reply to post by checkers


thanxsfor the inspiration

reply to post by DAF


DAF,

Fate or predestination, is a Divine manifestation in our lives, God alone can know our fate but it is us who ultimately determine our fate by our actions and by the choices we make in our lives. To put it simply, our fate or destiny is closely intertwined with our free will. The pre-destination at death are Paradise and Hell, all of us has the free will to choose where we go after our life on earth is finished. We define our choices by our actions, we are given guidelines on how to reach both destinations. There is the straight path shown to us by the Holy Prophets of God; worship of the One true God and doing righteous works by following God's Laws. And there is also the crooked path, and God has warned us of our open enemy Satan, who is the patron of those who disobey Him and the destination of those who will follow him.

Humans share a common fate, that is the fate of certain death. It was said that this fate is written in our book while we are still at the womb of our mothers.

There is a hadith (tradition of Prophet Muhammad) on this subject that describes this. It was narrated by his companion `Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him) as follows:

Allah’s messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), as inspired by God said;

“Each one of you was collected within the womb of his mother for forty days, and then turns into a clot [or something that clings] for an equal period [of forty days] and turns into a piece of flesh for a similar period [of forty days] and then Allah sends an angel and orders him to write four things, i.e., his provision, his age [at death], and whether he will be of the wretched or the blessed [in the Hereafter].

Then the soul is breathed into him. And by Allah, a person among you [or a man] may do deeds of the people of the Hellfire till there is only a cubit or an arm-breadth distance between him and the Hellfire, but then that writing [which Allah has ordered the angel to write] precedes, and then he does the deeds of the people of Paradise and enters it; and a man may do the deeds of the people of Paradise till there is only a cubit or two between him and Paradise, and then that writing precedes and he does the deeds of the people of the Fire and enters it.”

God brought us forth from the womb of our mothers knowing nothing, He gave us hearing and sight and hearts and taught us what we don't know, for this alone we should spend our whole life praising and loving Him, but most people even try to deny Him, and those who do acknowledge Him ascribe a partner to Him, except those who truly benefited from the teachings of the Holy Prophets.

Peace!

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


There is no such thing as coincidence. The people we meet and touch our lives are sent by God for various reasons, some to teach us, some to try our faith, some to confirm our faith, these are gifts from God, the outcomes from these encounters depends on how we react to them. something that might seem bad, might hold something good in them, but through all of this, God is teaching us how to return.

it's true about soul mates. For each one of us God has created a mate, from his own self, it's one of God's greatest gift to find your soul mate in your lifetime, God alone can send your soul mate when you have surrendered your purpose to Him, He adds everything you need in this life.

035.011 Allah created you from dust, then from a little fluid, then He made you pairs (the male and female). No female beareth or bringeth forth save with His knowledge. And no-one groweth old who groweth old, nor is aught lessened of his life, but it is recorded in a Book, Lo! that is easy for Allah.

042.011 The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He hath made for you pairs of yourselves, and of the cattle also pairs, whereby He multiplieth you. Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer.

051.049 And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect.


Peace!

As don’t believe in god on a religious point of view, i have to say that destiny, fate, providence exist to an extent where other similar occurrence are reverberating to our own.
Therefore the chance to actually find out the future (as fate) is as distant as none.
A complex and intricate web of reality which are created by each of us are acting and interconnecting to each other to make the reality that we live.
Kacou.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


fate and faith. we work according to our faith and this determines our fate. if something is not given at the time of asking even though we're working for it, it could mean that it's not good for you, or it's not the time, or there's something better that God has planned for you. If you're putting God first in your life and you ask His guidance in all things you do, be sure that God is the best planner and be patient, and continue doing good, only God can answer prayers.

002.277 Lo! those who believe and do good works and establish worship and pay the poor-due, their reward is with their Lord and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

reply to post by masterp


masterp,

That was a good observation. The scientific approach and the Divine approach doesn't contradict each other in the point that our fates are pre-determined, since the law of the universe is pre-determined. God has ordained a certain period for the Universe and has ordained a certain period for man in which to live. The difference lies in the fact that the Universe is following an appointed path that it does not violate, it does not have the free will that God has given to mankind alone. Though the Universe will end at its appointed term, it has no rewards or punishment from God since all its actions are governed by God from the beginning to the end, but man since he has been given free will, upon reaching his term is subject to the judgment of God and will be accountable on the Day of Judgment for its deeds.

046.003 We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them save with truth, and for a term appointed. But those who disbelieve turn away from that whereof they are warned.

013.002 Allah it is Who raised up the heavens without visible supports, then mounted the Throne, and compelled the sun and the moon to be of service, each runneth unto an appointed term; He ordereth the course; He detaileth the revelations, that haply ye may be certain of the meeting with your Lord.

065.012 Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.

002.029 He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.

Great is the gift of free will, but much greater is the responsibility that comes with it.

033.072 Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool.

Peace!

reply to post by checkers


checkers,

i can see you have a good understanding of this gift " free will ", i hope more people will have this outlook in life.

our actions dictate our fate, and in the end we will all be returned to our source, which is God.


ps.

there's just one thing, God alone knows our future and what our actions will be in the future.


Peace!

theres no god and theres no fate u r just giving credit to god for the good and bad things he DIDNT do u but if it makes u more comfortable believing that god has "plans" for u and do nothing other than neccesary then one day ull wake up and realized u have wasted so much time from ur life

Aha Ok i was thinking like there is no way we'll ever know, maybe its fate that is making me type this right now, making me move my fingers and think what im thinking, fate is making me think about fate and everything im doing right now, u cant say that fate is real, nor can you say that it is not. because who knows maybe fate made for you to say it is unreal? i personally think everything that is going to happen will happen. lets say fate has a plan for you to die at 7:00 it doesnt matter if your in your home or out in the street, if your in your home a car can come through the side of your house, if your in the street you can get shot. Thats why i dont believe in fear as much because if fate has it planned for me wether im at my grandmas house or in an ally either way if im planned to get beat up, its gonna happen. sorry if thats confusing lol hard to get my point in through typing.