about time travel

Now I may have stuck my foot in my big ol' mouth so don't beat me to hard .

I think i was thinking of something along the lines, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there, does it really happen?". It's an obverver problem: Time needs an observer to exist and hence it's constructed from memory. That's why I say its a human a construct.


edit- Actually that's what Einstein's theories said: there can not be objective time. It is dependent upon the observer and their speed in relation to what s/he is observing.

[Edited on 1-9-2003 by ktprktpr]

More precisely, "If a tree falls in a forest and no-one is there to hear it, does it still make a sound?" (Of course it does).

Or the comedic neo-feminist version "If a man speaks and no woman is there to hear him, is he still wrong?"

# happens.

Why does there need to be a sewerage worker there to see it go down?

(I guess I'm having a day of absolutes and not relativities.)

If I could save time in a bottle, the first that I'd like to do...

MA: No the man made no sound...

P...
m...

Well it's a perpectual fallacy that structured time is required for things to happen.

So I'm going to have to backtrack a little (I did tell you where i put my foot...) and say that you can't measure something that you can't define, so you can't measure time. Since you can't measure it, all attempts are arbitrary (although fairly "predictable") so time is arbitrary .... and if something is arbitrary well I guess it doesn't mean very much.

*shrugs*

I've always wondered why everyone thinks the Universe has a sentient wish to "correct" things in time.... IF time travel is possible, (and current physics seem to point to at least a possibility, though not quite the same as the movies), then I'm not so sure any of this "timeline" or same matter/same space ideas amount to a hill of beans....

The idea (for me) is that the space/time continuum is not as "solid" as we want to believe it is. It's full of holes...and through these holes (wormholes), there is no time, and no space. Therefore, if one could travel through them, then theoretically, they are moving through time...albeit, without completely throwing the laws of physics out the window.... Time is an invention of our perceptions... The Universe deals in cycles, not a finite beginning and end... Since time is a matter of this perception, it is not a physical phenomenon to be moved through as you see in films... Just my take on it...

masked avatar are you calling someone again? can you not accept the fact that i am someone else?

This is from the left field, but several UFO people and at least one Hermantics book I'm reading say something to the effect of: Time Travel is possible ... through the mind (mental stimulation). Something like super accurate mental modeling of the past. But I guess you can't pick stuff up and bring it back, but you can go back and forth.

Im not to versed in this genre, But what about the issue of time itself,
Does it exist?
Does that have any affect on time travel.
How can you travel through time if time does not exist.
And what of time being the 4th dimension, would one actually travel through the 4th dimension from where one would navigate through the destined time.
Just a thought, Keep in mind.
Deep

[Edited on 1-9-2003 by ZeroDeep]

ktpr

I am warming to your view that time is arbitrary, and your ability to backtrack, and the mental modelling required in order to operate in temporal tourism.

While I still believe that the proof of time is in cause and effect (and the measurement of the time variable therein is arbitrary, just like any measures of distance, or energy, or other variables), the best means of testing is always clinical.

I shall spend tomorrow in the human year 1969, and report back.

if there is an infinite amount of worldlines or dimensions if you wanna call it that way then there is the possibilty of some of them being very close to our own correct? an infinite amount being close an infinite amount being not close at all to our own dimension or worldline if you call it that. therefore there are some very similar to ours. and john titors machine would pick the one closest to his own to land on.

this was reply was direct towars man with a plan

[Edited on 9-1-2003 by hmmm]

I beleive we are ALL doing diservice to ourselves when we ONLY look at ONE hypothesis.

Not realizing that one hypothesis is merely one of a complete set or group of mutually exclusive hypotheses is damaging to the scientific method.

It seems of little use to argue that one hypothesis is of no merit when one doesn't know what the other hypotheses are or, worse yet hasn't considered them...

To say that multiple worldlines is the answer or whatever we else we may postulate here is the answer, without UNDERSTANDING the other, mutually exclusive possibilities is ludicrous at best...

PEACE..
m...

P.S. Masked Avatar WHOIS Hmmmmm?

yes well so far multiple dimensions makes the most sense. of course it might not be possible at all. but so far multiple dimensions is the only way i see. or else we would destroy our own futures and what not.

Be kind to hmmm

hmmm prefers to remain undisclosed, and be his own private hmmm.

That is hmmm's prerogative, as it would be for any and all hmmm's. There is no need to talk about hmmm's past lives if hmmm doesn't see the need to relive hmmm's past.

hmmm may well be a model hmmm.

hmmm's future is probably of more interest than hmmm's past, hmmm hmmm?

wait, let me think of this in a different way.

If there were an infinite amount of universes. A time shift wouldn't be that hard to do. Simply put, adjust the speed of light to make it faster will cause all the reactions of the world to speed up. So a multiverse created with a faster speed of light together with all the other universes would be in a future time frame relative to this universe. Slow down the speed of light and a reverse will occur; a parralel universe, in say the 60's, is operating concurrently with our own. These parralel universes would only have a large time differential but relatively small differential to other aspects of physics.

MA keep indicating i am someone that you know. i am not. i just joined the board last nite and i liked it so much i stayed up 22 hours posting and arguing (which i love) with people on here. i dont know who you think i am but that aint me cause i have never been here before now. unless me and you know each other from a different dimension?

"While I still believe that the proof of time is in cause and effect .... the best means of testing is always clinical."

I'm probably getting becoming a sloppy slophist but I believe even cause and effect can't really be measured. Remember those photon experiences with the slitted gates and how the atom was a wave or a particle. Uh what else? Schrondigners Cat. Cause and effect is pretty fuzzy to if you look to close, but that might be a case of (hehehe) not seeing the forest among the trees.

Mr. Hmmmm ... welcome to the board. You are awesome You should particpate in debates.

edit - inserted Mr. to fix this post in referential halluinary consensus

[Edited on 1-9-2003 by ktprktpr]

thank you. everyone here is very nice. and i would just like to say if i came off rude to anyone when we are arguing i'm sorry i didnt mean to do so. this place rocks. i get to argue with people are like me but have different opinions. also i am wrong! so if you see any flaws say so cause i am human.

"Something like super accurate mental modeling of the past. But I guess you can't pick stuff up and bring it back, but you can go back and forth."

We already do this.

Another theory would be: universes are continually being contructed but with the same aspects as this one. A billion year old universe would be just like our own, but with the physical structure of our universe when it was a billion years old. There wouldn't be humans living on the moon in this set of universes but that is ok with me.

Yet another theory is: If a universe is like a "bubble in a bath tub" Then perhaps each bubble could have different speeds and be moving in relation to the others. A bathtub with the a certian speed will have a different internal light speed because the speeds add to each other. This would cause the aformentioned increase or decrease in the speed of interactions. Lets say there were 5 universes moving around at different speeds. Then a time traveller could go to, say, million years ago, 10,000 years in the future, when Kennedy was assasinated etc. etc.

I shoot this theory down because then light speed relative inside our universe would be measured as different when light is going different directions.

I like the idea that there are only a few distinct times that you could go to. When applied to my first theory on this post:
1.)if each big bang is the same
2.)if physics are the same after the big bang
3.)if universes are created when a reaction that is unknown to us occurs.
4.)This reaction happens at differently spaced intervals
5.)conclusion:there would only be, like, 5 time periods that we can visit. To re-word that more precisely, there would be only 5 distances that we can travel in time.


[Edited on 1-9-2003 by TheManWithThePlan]

i like the idea that the different world lines are staggered in time. ( i think you said this manwith a plan) therefore we arent really time traveling we are just going to a different dimension. like right now its 2003 but if we go to another dimension ts 1975.

great site for time travel
freespace.virgin.net...

really good coverage.

edit - www.timetravelinstitute.com... is really good too

[Edited on 1-9-2003 by ktprktpr]