The Logic of Suicide Terrorism: It’s the Occupation, not the Fundamentalism

Last month, Scott McConnell caught up with Associate Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago, whose book on suicide terrorism, Dying to Win, is beginning to receive wide notice. Pape has found that the most common American perceptions about who the terrorists are and what motivates them are off by a wide margin. In his office is the world’s largest database of information about suicide terrorists, rows and rows of manila folders containing articles and biographical snippets in dozens of languages compiled by Pape and teams of graduate students, a trove of data that has been sorted and analyzed and which underscores the great need for reappraising the Bush administration’s current strategy. Below are excerpts from a conversation with the man who knows more about suicide terrorists than any other American.

A VERY Interesting Interview with Professor Robert Pape, who probably knows More about Suicide Terrorists then any of us.

Here are some Interestng Points he made during his Interview, which I suggest You Read whole.

The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland.

Since suicide terrorism is mainly a response to foreign occupation and not Islamic fundamentalism, the use of heavy military force to transform Muslim societies over there, if you would, is only likely to increase the number of suicide terrorists coming at us.

I have collected demographic data from around the world on the 462 suicide terrorists since 1980 who completed the mission, actually killed themselves. This information tells us that most are walk-in volunteers. Very few are criminals. Few are actually longtime members of a terrorist group. For most suicide terrorists, their first experience with violence is their very own suicide-terrorist attack.

Interesting, No?

So if we follow the Equasion in the title, we come to this Result:

NO Occupation = No Suicide Terrorism

Again, proof that so-called War on Terror CREATES Terrorism, and does not Eliminate it.

Invading Foreign Countries will NOT Decrease International Terrorism but will INCREASE it.

Why is that So Hard to Understand?

Source:
American Conservative

so if we do not attack them, they do not attack us, is it guaranteed that they will not try to terrorize us? i mean attacking non-infidels, destroyin un-Islamic idols like the Budda statues, killing directors who criticized Islam by making movies portraying it. killing Shiites, killing and threaten those who do not share the same views as them. sounds more like KKK. no matter if blacks dont mess with the KKK, the KKK will attack them for who they are.

The attacks will always be there, they will never stop. If the US and its allies packed up and went home, totally retract from all foreign matters and kept to ourselves, we would still be a target of radical Islam. Period. They see all non Muslims as infidels that need to be exterminated, it states in the Qur’an for petes sake.

Id rather bring the fight to them, than wait for them to come to me. We tried that, It didnt work.

Originally posted by deltaboy
so if we do not attack them, they do not attack us, is it guaranteed that they will not try to terrorize us?

You mean like - a Good Muslim is a Dead Muslim - kind of Tactic?

Tell me Boy, WHO in the World is Terrorizing You?

Muslim Terrorists or Your Own Goverment?

Think about it...

Originally posted by Souljah
You mean like - a Good Muslim is a Dead Muslim - kind of Tactic?

i have no idea where u brought that in.

Tell me Boy, WHO in the World is Terrorizing You?

Osama and his followers of course as he says that all Muslims must kill Americans both military and civilian anywhere and aniway they could.

Muslim Terrorists

i prefer to call them terrorists. since they aint Muslims because they are violating the sacred book which does not condone the targeting of innocent civilians.

Think about it...

already have

Originally posted by skippytjc
The attacks will always be there, they will never stop. If the US and its allies packed up and went home, totally retract from all foreign matters and kept to ourselves, we would still be a target of radical Islam.

In the World Today, Created by Power Hungry Greedy Corporate Western Colonializm - You are Right: the Attacks wont Stop.

While Isreal is Holding Palestine as Their Land - the Attacks Wont Stop.

While Russian Army Invades Afganistan and tries to Occupy it - the Attacks Wont Stop.

While US Forces attack Afganistan with the so-called War on Terror - the Attacks Wont Stop.

While US Forces Illegaly Occupy Iraq and declare it Liberated and Democratic - the Attacks Wont Stop.

Do you really think that if the US NEVER Interfeered with the Foreign Affairs of Middle East that the Suicide Terrorism would target You?

Radical Islam is the Answer to Corporate Expansionism.

While all Sorts of Corporations Make Money on other peoples Death and Misery - Radical Islamists wait in Line to blow themselves up.

A Stupid Question, that was asked throught out the Yugoslav Civil War:

WHO STARTED IT?

Welcome to the 21st Century my Friend: Age of Fear and Terror.

You have to ask yourself, who Spreads the Fear and the Terror and who Benefits from it.

:shk:

Heads-up, Souljah:
There is NO logic to suicide terrorism, period, and that is according to Islam.

You might want to seriously and objectively read my post here:
Why It Makes “Sense” For the Resistance to Target Innocent Iraqis


Disappointed is not even a word I care to express.
Research is your friend, so is a bit of logical objectiveness.





seekerof

Originally posted by Souljah
WHO STARTED IT?

Welcome to the 21st Century my Friend: Age of Fear and Terror.

You have to ask yourself, who Spreads the Fear and the Terror and who Benefits from it.

maybe u should look at the creation of Al Qaeda in the late 80s where he helps train his followers and sends them back home which is all over the world to create chaos. i can name the countries being attacked by Al Qaeda and the groups they help to train. from America across all the way around the world to the Phillipines and maybe u see Osama's agenda. maybe u think they who hates the way the Western culture is being brought, and it aint our fault since many Muslims want wat we have, but u have guys like Osama and the Taliban and other extremists who are disgusted. they want to see the Islamic Empire that was lost centuries ago. should remember that the Islamic armies almost conquered Africa, Asia and Europe because they believe that its their duty to impose Islam across the world. im sure Osama is trying to repeat that. his mind is back to glorious Islamic Empire.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Heads-up, Souljah:
There is NO logic to suicide terrorism, period, and that is according to Islam

Hmmmm....

Lets Read a passage from the Interview Again:

The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland.

Nice Research Post.

Oh, btw, I have met Dr. Robert Pape.
Intelligent man. Excellent writer and researcher, as well as a professor/teacher.

His data gathered is based on acts of terrorism in their applied cases and causes.
His research does not take into account what Islam says concerning acts of terrorism, though.

As such, what he deems is "valid logic" is not "valid logic" to Islamic scholars and Islam itself.





seekerof

You have voted Souljah for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Fantastic post Souljah.

Originally posted by deltaboy
maybe u should look at the creation of Al Qaeda in the late 80s where he helps train his followers and sends them back home which is all over the world to create chaos.

Maybe You should Look at the Creatin of Al-Qaeda and See who was Behind it in the First Place!

Even the Name get a Whole New Meaning:

Although "al-Qaeda" is the name of the organization used in popular culture, the organization rarely uses the name to formally refer to itself. The origin of the name "al-qaeda" is disputed; some allege it was coined by the United States government based on the name of a computer file of bin Laden's that listed the names of contacts he had made at the MAK in the Bait al-Ansar guesthouse during the late 1980s. Bin Laden himself says of the origin, saying "We used to call the training camp al Qaeda [meaning "the base" in English]. And the name stayed."

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Souljah
Bin Laden himself says of the origin, saying "We used to call the training camp al Qaeda [meaning "the base" in English]. And the name stayed."

en.wikipedia.org...

thanks for answering it already. i figure it was Osama himself who decided to take that name. after all, the U.S. couldnt name it Osama group or the man with a beard, but Osama has told in letters and videos the name of his group.

Al-Qa-eda was "created" when [in what point in the timeline of history] and to be utilized against whom [during that historical timeline], Souljah?

Anyhow, this needs to stay focused on your original topic.
Good post, Souljah, though I contest some of which is being presented.





seekerof

Let's see here...the U.S. didn't occupy any Muslim country on 9/11 yet we were attacked by suicide terrorists. Since then, we've occupied two of them, but the U.S. haven't been hit again yet...yeah your logic really makes sense Souljah...NOT


[edit on 7/13/2005 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Al-Qa-eda was "created" when [in what point in the timeline of history] and to be utilized against whom [during that historical timeline], Souljah?

When?

To be Utilized agaist Whom?

Al-Qaeda evolved from the Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK) — a mujahideen resistance organization fighting against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s

So basicly it was founded to Battle the Western Invaders to the Middle Eastern Area.

Bin Laden and the MAK were aided by the governments of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, but never by the United States, which channeled all of its support via the Pakistani intelligence service, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate.

OK - the US were Never really Directly Involved. BUT, without the help by the CIA and the constant supply of new weapon techology (such as Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, which probably helped to win the entire war) and with the constant flow of Money.

The Route from Kabul to Karach was very famous at the time - opium to Karachi, Weapons to Kabul.

Good Old CIA Tactics - Drugs for Weapons.

Anyhow, this needs to stay focused on your original topic.
Good post, Souljah, though I contest some of which is being presented.

Sir, I try.

I am a Fighter and with Your Help I might make it Some day!

Thank You for Everything!

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Let's see here...the U.S. didn't occupy any Muslim country on 9/11 yet we were attacked by suicide terrorists. Since then, we've occupied two of them, but the U.S. haven't been hit again yet...yeah your logic really makes sense Souljah...NOT

Sorry Sir,

But I do not Share Your View of 9-11 being an Action of Few Muslim Terrorists that decided one morning to wake up and Blow WTC up. There are Far to many HOLES in the Official 9-11 Story.

I dont BUY it. Which makes my entire View of this Situation alot Different from Yours.

And to be exact, the US has ALOT of Troops on Arab Peninsula - and they had them even before 9-11.

as posted by Souljah
So basicly it was founded to Battle the Western Invaders to the Middle Eastern Area.

Correction, Russia, then the Soviet Union, is not considered a "western invader." They are considered central asian.
Read under "Current definitions"
Western World.




seekerof

so now u admit that the U.S. did not create Al Qaeda but Osama created Al Qaeda, back in the 80s during the Soviet invasion we helped the Afghan Muj to resist the Soviets. Osama volunteered to go to Afghanistan which shows that even though we both have the same interests in defeating the Soviets, Osama did his own way, not by the CIA. after the Soviet withdraw, he and his followers had nothing left to do, so he helped create Al Qaeda and this was back in 1988 or so, and takes on America before Gulf War came, i believe he made a video that he is targeting America for helpin Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982, which means he is already after us. he says that he is attackin America for the occupation of Saudi Arabis which is the land of Mecca and Medina, wen in reality the Saudi govt invited us in. He attacks America on 9/11 and justifies it by sayin we supported the Israelis againt the Palestinians, before 9/11 he never mentioned the Palestinians untill after attacks.

Originally posted by Souljah

But I do not Share Your View of 9-11 being an Action of Few Muslim Terrorists that decided one morning to wake up and Blow WTC up. There are Far to many HOLES in the Official 9-11 Story.

I dont BUY it. Which makes my entire View of this Situation alot Different from Yours.

maybe u dont share the same view where the terrorists decided to wake up and bomb the embassies in Africa, or maybe the U.S.S. Cole. guess they werent Muslims either but CIA instead eh?