NEWS: Terror Arrests Follow After Bus Bomber is Identified.

Originally posted by PistolPete
How in the world would it be unclear if it's a suicide bombing if he died in the blast?

That's weird to me.

because witnesses said the man on the bus was very agitated and fiddling with something in his bag - now if you are a suicide bomber then i dont think you would care about resetting your timer if you could take some people out with you when your bomb exploded. also - why was his bomb a different time when the others were all within 1 minute - what made his bomb different and where was he before he got on the bus in that time?

what needs to be known is if they bought return tickets to london or even a travelcard and not single ticket on the underground because that will show their intentions

Snoopdopey
I'll take your points 1 by 1

Police find dna or id of bomber in bus from tooth, blood etc, run a criminal background check on the lot, wow wee, a muslim! Maybe we should check that out lads the detectives say to another.

There are a couple of problems with this one.
a) DNA takes a while (sonmetimes weeks) for even a top of the line lab to id DNA. The dna also has to be matched in some database in order to match dna to a specific person.
b) There 52 people dead. run a backround check on them would not id that they are muslim unless there is something specific in the iddentification that designates a religious preference.
c) Checking for criminal backround for identification would indicate that these guys had a prior criminal record. Note, the police stated that all persons of interest (terrorists) were accounted for and were not thought to have been involved.

Oh Gosh, he's reported missing, and his car isn't there either!

Out of 52 dead 700 wounded and over 2000 calls to the info line that was setup identified these guys? How, were callers questioned about their religious background?

They would have needed to travel to Luton from Leeds in it, check all mayor stations and airports.

Ok, this is working backwards. and also does not really provide proof. what about all the other travelers from Leeds? were they also investigated? It has not been reported.

About the 3 other suspects?
How about, your planning a big terrorist attack, which needs to be completed during the morning rush, so lets imagine that after making the bombs, and putting in all that work, they leave nothing to chance...

Meaning? any notes etc that could have identified these people as being the ones would not have been on their persons but at their residences. Again. how do you go from being on the underground to having your flat raided to identify incriminating materials?

Ie. One of them orders tickets for the Luton station (where the car was found), so as to make it in time for rush hour, just incase the train is full, and they cannot travel to their objective.
How do you pre-book? ... With a card! And in some cases, the details of each ticket holder must be inputted.

And again, how does buying a ticket to be on the underground lead to your being a suspect? I sometimes use the local bus system, so I guess that this would make me a suspect for any crimes that maybe commited along the route?

Alternatively, they may all have had previous convictions, and 4 muslims, from the same area, not within commuting distance, in london who were killed in the bombings could also be a potential lead to follow up, i think it's common sense.

Again as reported by the police, all person of suspect had not been involved.
So, if these muslims had records which would automatically lead the police to believe that they were bombers..... why were they not already identified? Or are you saying the cops were wrong on Thursday / Friday when they stated that all persons that had been identified as possible terrorists had been accounted for and had not been involved?

b) There 52 people dead. run a backround check on them would not id that they are muslim unless there is something specific in the iddentification that designates a religious preference.

Quote Kenshiro
____________________________________________________________

Muslim names are relatively easy to spot / distinquish from Hindu etc names(Khan, anything with a 'Q' in it etc etc), plus religion is a question on the Census so checking religion is no issue.

Anyone having dealings with UK Asians can distinquish - no issue for the Police etc



[edit on 12/7/05 by CTID56092]

Also remember that MI5 keeps information on a lot of local militants. It's possible that their names were already on watchlists. If one name pops up you might check his associates. If you then see him and a number of associates getting off a train at KX (where all the trains went through) it doesn't take a genius to become suspicious. If you also find ID at 3 of the sites then you're well in there.

Apparently all that remains of one of the bodies under KX is a spine and some ribs, so it's going to take some time to ID it. No way you're going to find ID in that mess...

police reporting that a significant amount of explosives were recovered from the houses today and the arrested person is a relative of one of the suspects.

There are a couple of problems with this one.
a) DNA takes a while (sonmetimes weeks) for even a top of the line lab to id DNA. The dna also has to be matched in some database in order to match dna to a specific person.
b) There 52 people dead. run a backround check on them would not id that they are muslim unless there is something specific in the iddentification that designates a religious preference.
c) Checking for criminal backround for identification would indicate that these guys had a prior criminal record. Note, the police stated that all persons of interest (terrorists) were accounted for and were not thought to have been involved.

What if it was some kind of jewellery, or his driving licence if he had one?

Out of 52 dead 700 wounded and over 2000 calls to the info line that was setup identified these guys? How, were callers questioned about their religious background?

I'm not following your here mate, are you thinking ok? They have ID'd the guy, they check to see if his name is flagged up on missing persons list, family leaves address details and names.

Ok, this is working backwards. and also does not really provide proof. what about all the other travelers from Leeds? were they also investigated? It has not been reported.

Again your not thinking straight here, they wouldn't have to check all travellers, only the named individual, plus if it was his car, which they later found, they then skip back to CCTV last Thurs morining, and sure enough, 4 men of middle eastern decent with back packs get out. What's so complicated?

Meaning? any notes etc that could have identified these people as being the ones would not have been on their persons but at their residences. Again. how do you go from being on the underground to having your flat raided to identify incriminating materials?

Well if the train had been booked, then most likely their details would be in the booking...

And again, how does buying a ticket to be on the underground lead to your being a suspect? I sometimes use the local bus system, so I guess that this would make me a suspect for any crimes that maybe commited along the route?

No, again your not thinking, no name is printed on an underground ticket, i'm talking about a rail ticket from Luton to Kings Cross.

I'm not trying to say this is the answer, but there's lots of people trying to make up conspiracies without thinking it through.

It's perfectly reasonable that the police could have found out their identity from a trail of evidence in this timescale.

Originally posted by Snoopdopey
andy1972

Doesn't really mate, they have said they linked forensic evidence to him.

In order to link someone to forensic evidence they can either be

A) An existing criminal
B) Had some distinguising jewellery ( which the family could identify, since they reported him missing )
C) Had indeed his ID, i carry my driving licence around all the time, if it was the driver, would it not be sensible to carry it? incase he was pulled over? If he did not produce the licence the police could have became suspicious, and demanded a full search of the car.

It's all about covering bases, minimising risk.

In your own words old snoopdoggydog its all about covering bases...So why carry anything that can identify you after the act leading to arrests in family friends co-plotters etc.

Carrying anything that identifies you is not minimising the risk its doubling it..
And whos to say the id isnt fake...

Could be, but if you were a bomber andy what is more important to you?

I'm speculating.

Your family's identity when you a dead, or, being stopped on a motorway by police and being searched if you do not produce your licence, the police could well have done that if they believed it was stolen?

And if you are so set on taking your own life, and being so selfish to kill innocent people because of your beliefs, could it not also be possible that they would be selfish enough to simply not care if their family was identified or not?

Personally i think that avoiding police and searches would have been their highest priority, but it is only my opinion.

Snoopdopey.

Originally posted by Snoopdopey
sure enough, 4 men of middle eastern decent with back packs get out. What's so complicated?

i guess this would be complicated because...

1. they were british born
2. they are alleged to be of pakistani origin
3. look at pakistan on a map and then look where the middle east is
4. gee - isnt pakistan where osama is hiding out?

Sorry justyc i should been more explicit, i just said middle eastern because i didn't want to say paki's

Not African, not chinese, not white. You know the colour i'm talking about

[edit on 12-7-2005 by Snoopdopey]

i think you mean region, not colour - pakistan is in asia

Originally posted by andy1972

COINCIDENCE...just like MOHAMMED ATTAS passport surviving a 2000 degree inferno nearly intact!!!!!

I'm not sure where this comment came from, or why, but I can tell you from personal military experience with thermite (which gets hotter than that) that it only takes a small layer of carbonized material (such as paper or cloth) to create an insulator. Several sheets of paper will survive almost totally untouched behind, or between, such a layer(s).

I know pakistan is in asia, but the odds aren't stacked in their favour of being white as a sheet are they.

Originally posted by Snoopdopey
Sorry justyc i should been more explicit, i just said middle eastern because i didn't want to say paki's

Not African, not chinese, not white. You know the colour i'm talking about

[edit on 12-7-2005 by Snoopdopey]

You know the bit at the top of the site? Deny Ignorance is what it says.

www.wikipedia.com
www.dictionary.com

It would be "Pakistani" not "Paki", as I have explained to someone else before the term "Paki" means; "Used as a disparaging term for a person from Pakistan or neighboring countries or for the descendant of such a person.".

Originally posted by Snoopdopey
I know pakistan is in asia, but the odds aren't stacked in their favour of being white as a sheet are they.

Actually, they would have a similar complextion to someone of India or the Middle East, but really colour doesn't matter in such an issue. There are white, brown, etc, terrorists and always will be.

[edit on 12/7/2005 by Odium]

Odium.

I'm from Scotland and people call us Scots.

Australians are called Aussi's.

American's are called Yanks.

Pakistani's are called Paki's.

It's political correctness gone wrong, there's nothing offensive about it, and if pakistani's take offense from it then they're too wound up.

Originally posted by Astronomer68

Originally posted by andy1972

COINCIDENCE...just like MOHAMMED ATTAS passport surviving a 2000 degree inferno nearly intact!!!!!

I'm not sure where this comment came from, or why, but I can tell you from personal military experience with thermite (which gets hotter than that) that it only takes a small layer of carbonized material (such as paper or cloth) to create an insulator. Several sheets of paper will survive almost totally untouched behind, or between, such a layer(s).

The quotecame from the fact earlier someone said that documents has been found on the bombers..just as they found a nearly intact passport in the rubble of the WTC.
And they didnt use a thermite bomb, it was a small quantity of plastic explosives, probably of a military nature according to a French secret service agent.

Originally posted by Snoopdopey

American's are called Yanks.

I'm from Texas and I always hated being called a yank. Yank to me is short for yankee--someone from back east.

Andy - Thermite is for starting fires, not making bombs. You could make a bomb from thermite, but it would have to be encased in something pretty stout to do so. I was commenting that the survival of a passport in 2000 degree heat is no big deal.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by Snoopdopey
I know pakistan is in asia, but the odds aren't stacked in their favour of being white as a sheet are they.

Actually Kashmiris are as white or whiter than you or I (I'm certainly 'pink').

Did you hate these people before this or is it a recent thing? Presumably you don't use their shops, restaurants, nursing, medical or dental care, you never have to visit a chemist or take a taxi?

No Asians in Scotland then?

[edit on 12/7/05 by CTID56092]

Actually there is, the term Paki is an archaic term and was used as an insult while India and Pakistan were one Nation and under British Control. It has and always was an insult and is different from the term "Scots" which is an archaic term for someone of the Gaelic tribe that migrated to the northern part of Britain from Ireland in about the sixth century.

There is a large difference between a word intended to insult someone as its purpose and one that is either the initial tribal name or an abbreviation of that reigion - which the term "Paki" is not. These people are also "English" as they were born in "England".

English: "The people of England." as they are citizens of this Nation and are thus a "Person of England".

The explosives were not home made, they were thought to be C4 or RDX right?