Politically Exploiting the London Bombings for the Good of the EU

I have a nasty suspition that this may be the beginning of a political trend of European nations working together to 'fight the war on terror' so as to unite them in one common cause and in so doing establish a precedent for greater european co-operation and enhance the argument for the development of a socialist European Superstate, and somehow a redrafted European constitution.
It was only recently that voters in France and Holland rejected the European Union, although some european politicans at the time appeared to view that as only a temporary setback.
It appears from the steps they have taken so far that they are deliberately making a point of the benefits of greater European co-operation and so arrouse my suspitions that the EU may in the long run be greatly benefitted by these attacks.

for example in this NY times article
NY Times

The meeting was also considered extraordinary because European countries do not often work together on complex terrorism investigations. Cooperation is complicated by differences in each country's intelligence agencies and counterterrorism police, and often-sharp differences among crime-fighting and judicial approaches. Tracking terrorism suspects also is difficult because they move freely across Europe's open borders, and finger-pointing among countries has followed terrorist strikes.

But the London meeting was a sign that most countries in Europe believe that solving the London bombings and thwarting the next attack are responsibilities shared by everyone.


Here there are calls for EU monitoring of e-mails, cell phones
EU Wide Monitoring

The British government's action is part of a wider EU initiative to have the continental collective spy on its citizens' emails and cell phone calls.


I am wondering how long this strange and seemingly inefficient initiative has been in the pipeline?

I would not be suprised to see this exploited politically for the good of the image of the EU, in fact actually thinking about it, it would suprise me if they didnt try and skew it to make the EU look necessaray all of a suden.
I am just suprised at the speed that it has already been exploited.
Indeed within hours of the event happening, online news had quotes from an EU politican within 3 hours of the attacks happening.

Source: Ireland On-Line, 07/07/2005 - 11:48:10
Italy’s European commissioner has called a series of explosions in London a terrorist strike against Europe.

“What has happened is the tragic confirmation that terrorism strikes once more at the heart of Europe,” Franco Frattini was reported as saying by the Apcom and ANSA news agencies.

“It’s necessary to immediately activate co-ordination between intelligence and police services and offer England all the help possible,”


I could be totally off the mark with this and we never hear again of EU wide legisaltion or EU co-operation, but somehow going by what i have seen so far, there has been some attempt to politically exploit what has happened in the name of the greater good of the EU, it would not suprise me to see it continually unnecessaraly exploited to try and promote europe.

How is any of this "exploiting" the bombings for "the good of the EU"?!

The EU is already a collective that could hardly help but examine the wider implications of these attacks and any areas where increased cooperation and coordination would enhance the protection of the people of the EU.

It's not like it's just the EU that will be looking at this either, every nation will be looking to the findings of the various investigations and the lessons learned.

.......are you saying they shouldn't just in case someone imagines this exploitative!?

AdamJ, EU has been working on better co-operation between law-enforcement agencies of member countries for quite some time.
The reason is not terrorism. As horifying as the attacks in Madrid and London may be, the bigger problem in EU is organized crime.

The Europol, joint EU police force, has been formed a while ago to ensure easier information exchange between EU members.

It was only recently that voters in France and Holland rejected the European Union

They didnt reject the European Union!
They rejected this particular draft of the Constitution.
EU still exists just like it did before the vote.

well i know that total EU intergration is coming and that it is inevitable. I am just interested in looking at the ways which they will try and present it to the people.

Althought the French and Dutch only rejected the constitution, that was widely seen in the media as rejection of the EU entirely. political guests on news shows of course argued differently, that it was not necessaraly the end.

I think that there are alot of people looking to promote Europe as one big 'happy familiy' stanging together, united, with the same aims and objectives, that sort of rehtoric.
Of course at the moment that is far from the case, someone trying to claim that an attack on London is an attack on Europe is just loopy, yet that is what was said, which is ridiculous.

Europe is not united, only in political dreams is it united, the dreams of people similar to Hitler. No doubt their are people who dream of having the title of Grand President of the United European superstates, but so far that is still only their dream.

It remains to be seen what strategy they will come up with for selling their 'business plan' of uniting Europe to the people, general propagnda will of course be involved, it may be enough, it may not.
In the mean time they are getting on with the non-emotional side of setting up european operations instead of national ones.
This in itself will have the conditioning effect of 'inevitability' on the people and will help in the long run

[edit on 23-7-2005 by AdamJ]

We can only speculate on all this.. but I will tell you this, the biggest beneficiary of the latest terror attacks in London is Karl Rove. This is an excellent diversion. Anybody notice Rove's been off the front page more often than not since this began? His chestnuts are being thoroughly roasted right now. I'll be surprised if he can get through this Fitzerald investigation unscathed.

Originally posted by AdamJ
Althought the French and Dutch only rejected the constitution, that was widely seen in the media as rejection of the EU entirely.

- I think this is only accurate of the (mainly) British anti-EU press.
Most of the more balanced neutral press and the pro-EU press was nothing like as absurdly OTT about it.

I think that there are alot of people looking to promote Europe as one big 'happy familiy' stanging together, united, with the same aims and objectives, that sort of rehtoric.

- Well it's easy to be cynical but the thing is, it's true.

Politically in almost every issue of substance Europe does stand together and does share the same aims even if the methods of doing things and the routes we choose to get there are different.
It's not just rhetoric.

Of course at the moment that is far from the case

- would you like to explain this comment?

someone trying to claim that an attack on London is an attack on Europe is just loopy, yet that is what was said, which is ridiculous.

- That may be so but it hardly negates the idea of Europe standing together.

Europe is not united, only in political dreams is it united, the dreams of people similar to Hitler.

- If you think there is any parallel between the present ideas of a freely voluntary cooperative and democratic Europe with that of Hitler's murderous dictatorship, conquest and subjugation I suggest you go away and learn a little about Hitler and Co. as - if you really believe this nonsense - you can have no clue at all about them and Europe today.

No doubt their are people who dream of having the title of Grand President of the United European superstates, but so far that is still only their dream.

- There is no-one of any substance seriously imagining a 'USE' in our life-time, relax.

As the referendum votes in France and Holland show no matter what day-dreams a handfull of EU officials might have there is absolutely no prospect of the peoples of Europe agreeing to such a thing at any point in anything but the dim and distant future.
It certainly isn't 'on the cards' anytime soon.

Today I was having a conversation with my husband on how the recent attacks in london has prompted a sequences of events withing the government that is heading the same path as what is going on in the US and the government since 9/11.

Propaganda is a powerful tool to instigate fear within the population and will soften the public's opinion when the leaders start making drastic decisions against their freedoms.

I always admired the spunk of the English people when they don't like what their government is doing, they are vocal and loud, but now your country will be put to the test.





[edit on 24-7-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
Today I was having a conversation with my husband on how the recent attacks in london has prompted a sequences of events withing the government that is heading the same path as what is going on in the US and the government since 9/11.

Propaganda is a powerful tool to instigate fear within the population and will soften the public's opinion when the leaders start making drastic decisions against their freedoms.

I always has admired the spunk of the English people when they don't like what their government is doing, they are vocal and loud, but now your country will be put to the test.

The nation is being destroyed by Labour, systematic destruction.
They have got the house of Lords on their target list next, which for some reason they think they need to get rid of.
The NHS is not far down the line, and a privatized police force is definately somebodys wet dream.
All the fuss they make about terrorism is shown up to be what it is, a lie, becasue they have never given a toss about crime, not enough to take any real drastic steps.
Yet if it is a certain type of crime then they go over the top, blah blah blah.
It show them be to be liars.
Everyday people are killed in London by crime and they do nothing, onjly if its crime that benefits what they already wanted to do, do they make a fuss about it.

The sort of resiliant people you are talking about are dying out fast, yet compared to America, the UK in my opinion is still so great. Trouble is I dont see it lasting.


By the way, dont they want to get rid of the sunset clauses in those patriot acts?
I hope thats not true but its what i heard.
What kind of psychos are running the show over there?
If its true you guys should !seriously! watch out. You'll never see a more blatant sign of intent than that.

And i think there may be some connection between those guys and the EU pushers. And whatever they are up to, using their 'terrorism' to implement what they want.

Anyway, I still cant get over the way Labour are destroying the UK, i think to a large extent people have just given up caring, so many things are changing, its to all much to combat.

[edit on 24-7-2005 by AdamJ]

Originally posted by AdamJ
The nation is being destroyed by Labour, systematic destruction..........etc etc etc

- AdamJ if your intent is simply to complain about the current British Labour gov why don't you just take it to the UK board and make your complaints there, huh?
One at a time so we can all debate them.
You could start by trying to defend the heriditary House of Lords if you like......?

(BTW if you can give any examples of those "eu pushers" attempting to foist new laws on Britain because of the recent terrorist attacks feel free to give details but I think you'll find all the new suggestions are utterly home-grown and came from the British Police, Intel services and the democratically elected representitives of the British people/gov.

But if you know different........?)

[edit on 24-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by AdamJ
The nation is being destroyed by Labour, systematic destruction..........etc etc etc

- AdamJ if your intent is simply to complain about the current British Labour gov why don't you just take it to the UK board and make your complaints there, huh?
One at a time so we can all debate them.
You could start by trying to defend the heriditary House of Lords if you like......?

(BTW if you can give any examples of those "eu pushers" attempting to foist new laws on Britain because of the recent terrorist attacks feel free to give details but I think you'll find all the new suggestions are utterly home-grown and came from the British Police, Intel services and the democratically elected representitives of the British people/gov.

But if you know different........?)

[edit on 24-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Well ill give you one, national ID cards. IT may have happend anyway who knows, but it is certainly a 'sacred from above' policy, deemed to be essental to all western alliance governments, ie US, AUS, UK.

I dont think that was what i was trying to say though, there may be some interesting connections specifically between members of the US government and the EU, but thats just me speculating, not claiming fact with evidence.

I think you and me have our wires crossed.
I am dissapointed in the way things are going, Labour etc.
But i have no doubt that it wouldnt be any better with the consevatives.
I was only saying what i felt.

I dont 'mind' that we are going to have a United States of Europe, i know that it is not my decision, and that it is inevtiable, i can see that, i am not complaining to anyone as such just voicing my bitter suspitions about how they are doing it.

What I am really interested in is seeing how the political powers that want this, work to achieve it in the coming years.

Is there something you have a specific problem with?


quote: Of course at the moment that is far from the case
would you like to explain this comment?


i mean, the members of europe still have their national interests as a prioirty, they are not part of one conciouness. They are nations working together rather than one big nation.


quote: Europe is not united, only in political dreams is it united, the dreams of people similar to Hitler.

- If you think there is any parallel between the present ideas of a freely voluntary cooperative and democratic Europe with that of Hitler's murderous dictatorship, conquest and subjugation I suggest you go away and learn a little about Hitler and Co. as - if you really believe this nonsense - you can have no clue at all about them and Europe today.


There is no difference in the vision, ultimately it is about greater power and control. How that power is used in the world is another matter. It is going to come down to the individual in the hot seat, if there is one. There might not be, remains to be seen, and it is always debateable who has the real power anyway.

Originally posted by AdamJ
Well ill give you one, national ID cards.

- I don't agree that the UK's interest in ID cards stems from anywhere other than the UK.
We've had them before during times of emergency and whether one agrees with having them or not you can hardly say they're being pushed at us by Europe.
(Although it is noteable that many EU countries manage to have them without being fascistic hell-holes)

I think you and me have our wires crossed.
I am dissapointed in the way things are going, Labour etc.
But i have no doubt that it wouldnt be any better with the consevatives.
I was only saying what i felt.

- I wasn't getting party political I was only asking you to flesh out your ideas, don't be defensive matey.

I dont 'mind' that we are going to have a United States of Europe....
.....just voicing my bitter suspitions about how they are doing it.

- I think this idea of a USE is so far off that it is neither inevitable nor something to waste much time worrying about.

i mean, the members of europe still have their national interests as a prioirty, they are not part of one conciouness. They are nations working together rather than one big nation.

- Well that surely indicates that there is nothing more than the right and proper, not to mention 'normal', free cooperation going on and nothing more 'sinister', surely?

There is no difference in the vision, ultimately it is about greater power and control.

- No way. This is so wrong.

There is/was absolutely a vast difference in "vision".

The Hitler-ite "vision" of Europe was one of a murderous (by the multi-million) dictatorship with victory through force of arms, exploitation and domination for one country, Germany, alone; with defeat, subjugation and permanent servitude for the rest.

Nothing at all like the 'ideal' of today's EU. Nothing at all.

Just because Europe is/was the scene for both is hardly much real similarity.



[edit on 24-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]