Theory about galaxies getting further apart from each other

I didnt really know where to put this so could a mod move it if they think its better somewhere else.
Right scientists say that everything in the universe is getting further apart and the further away something is the faster it moves. Well could this be actually the universe is getting smaller and all matter is getting closer together from gravity or another force we havent discoverede yet.
I have no evidence for this theory this is just an idea.



(edit to fix thread title)

[edit on 7-7-2005 by pantha]

Hi Shenroon,

you said:

scientists say that everything in the universe is getting further apart

Sounds interesting but where did you read that from?

[edit on 7-7-2005 by swordsaint]

We've long known that the universe is expanding.

There's something called "Redshifting" and another thing called "Blue#ing" - they are consequences of the fact that light has a constant speed and frequency. When you change the frequency (by moving something towards you as it transmits light) the wavelength must change, and different wavelengths produce different colours of light.

There is a common misconception that matter all sat at a specific point in the universe and then an explosion happened and then the matter was flung outwards, which is why it's "expanding" right now. This isn't quite realistic.

The reality (as we know it) is that the universe itself was a single point, and some event caused a massive rapid expansion of the size of the universe itself, allowing the trapped matter to expand. The expansion was more rapid than an explosion and took place at or near the speed of light (there is also some theoretical supposition that expansion faster than light occured, but I won't go into it here.) - The universe continued to expand along with the matter in it. But it's not just like a bubble getting bigger with air filling it up.

Space itself is expanding, the distance between you and your computer is actually getting larger. The distance between the sun and the earth is increasing, and so is the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda. Usually though, it's just such a TINY TINY amount, that it's undetectable. For you to notice a difference in the distance between you and your computer you'd have to sit perfectly still for millions of years, and even then it would be only microns of distance. But, on large scales, between galaxies, there is enough expanding space there that the difference is detectable.

Thus, we look out and see a galaxy giving off more red light than blue, and know it is moving away, because its wavelength has become longer, meaning its frequency has decreased, and speed is maintained.

(By the way, the equation for this is v=fL - speed =frequency*Lambda, which is Wavelength.)

Blueshifting occurs when galaxies move towards us faster than space between us is expanding, and it does happen.

Not to be mistaken again though - galaxies are literally moving through space the way we commonly think, but spacial expansion is the key factor in our knowledge that most of them are moving away.

And, it's expected that there is a force such as anti-gravity or a massive amount of gravity pulling outwards that is causing this expansion, It's one of the "great questions" that we don't really have an answer to.

And, please, before someone asks "Well what was there before the universe?" - I'd like to remind you that it does not make you look smarter, but stupider. It's a hole in the theory, and everyone is well aware of that thanks. Religion doesn't do any better except just say "Oh, god did it. He can, cause he's god." - so let's skip the whole thing as it's counterproductive and useless. No one has the right answer for what came before the universe, but science is trying to describe what happened after.

Oh, tag on to the post: The chances it's a force that we haven't discovered are very slim - it is likely a property of a force we currently know, or it is one of the combined forces. It is known that the Weak Nuclear and Electromagnetic forces combine at high energies, and that at higher energies, so does the Strong Nuclear force. It's expected that somewhere, gravity does too. Most people think it's at a very high energy that we can't hope to reach for a long time, some think it's a very very low energy. No answers here yet, either. But it is thought that expansion may be caused by the unified force of all of them combined.

I knew most of the theory about the expansion of the uivese I just wanted to say that maybe we're wrong adn its actually getting smalle until the big crunch (no i didnt make this up its part of some of the big bang theories.)

Well, yes. For a long time we thought it could really go any of 3 ways, that the universe would get larger and larger and just keep expanding forever, that the universe would get larger to a point and then just stand still, or that the universe would get larger and larger then begin to collapse and get smaller and smaller again until it results in the Big Crunch.

But then we found out that the expansion of the universe is mysteriously accelerating. We are moving away from everything else faster than we used to be, and it will continue to get faster as time goes. This has resulted in the general knowledge that the universe will be following the first path, getting larger and larger forever until it goes cold.

It would be very hard to mistake whether things are going away or coming closer, and as such, we're pretty sure we're right. There's always the off chance, though.

And by the way, the place this should have been put is Science and Technology, not Aliens and UFOs.

I'm not saying this theory is right and thanks for the science and technology bit could a mod move this so I could get input from people looking in the right field.

Um, if you aren't saying it's right then what are you saying?

It's a known theory, lots to read about it out there, but it's known to be wrong. It's not a "Well 70% chance that won't happen" - it's just not the way the physical laws of the universe are working.

Seriously, what discussion is left?

Sorry I didnt know my theory already existed of the uniovese shrinking
so I guess there really isnt any discussion left

wow!
down viendin! down!

if you wanna discuss the big band theory "viendin" there's another thread that you might wanna check out or move your opinions over to ....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

=================================================

not trying to ruin your confidence ANY FURTHER ... trust me some people can jus be a bit aggresive in their ramblings ...

this is an interesting subject Shenroon,

but what is it that you're trying to ask? ...

do we think the universe will expand till it collapses?
or
do we think the universe is shrinking?



[edit on 7-7-2005 by swordsaint]

I'm not really sure myself I was just posting my idea to see what others would think about it. BUt it turns out I'm not the first to pose this idea, so theres probably another thread on this if there is can someone please find it.

TO be annoying I'm gonna flip the theory on it's head www.abovetopsecret.com...



edit sorry I was posting on the said link but accidently went on this one.

[edit on 7-7-2005 by Shenroon]

Theory:-

A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

this is an interesting subject Shenroon,

but what is it that you're trying to ask? ...

do we think the universe will expand till it collapses?
or
do we think the universe is shrinking?


I belive myself that either can be possible but I'm just trying to see what others think of my shrinknig theory. Because I know on other 'big bang' posts no one actually accepts my ideas, so I thought my own post would have some good feedback.

Well could this be actually the universe is getting smaller and all matter is getting closer together from gravity or another force we havent discoverede yet.

I dont understand how you jumped to this conclusion, after all that you were saying. Could you please explain this to me.

.... And if the Universe was shrinking, wouldnt the Universe be getting younger. Which is impossible. I mean space would be reducing in size, which would affect time.

[edit on 11-7-2005 by siddharthsma]

Originally posted by Viendin
Space itself is expanding, the distance between you and your computer is actually getting larger. The distance between the sun and the earth is increasing, and so is the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda. Usually though, it's just such a TINY TINY amount, that it's undetectable. For you to notice a difference in the distance between you and your computer you'd have to sit perfectly still for millions of years, and even then it would be only microns of distance. But, on large scales, between galaxies, there is enough expanding space there that the difference is detectable.

This not true, only the distance between galaxies is expanding, in fact some galaxies form groups that move together such as our local group -- the distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda is not increasing. Gravity prevents this from happening. In fact Andromeda is on a collision course with the Milky Way and they're expected to merge in several billion years.

The main problem is that galaxies not only seem to be moving away from each other, they seem to be doing it at an accelerating rate, something that our science really can't explain.

[edit on 7/11/2005 by djohnsto77]

I'm not a scientist but, I have read that once the universe stops expanding it will be sort of like a sling-shot effect,,everything will start going backwards from expansion.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
I'm not a scientist but, I have read that once the universe stops expanding it will be sort of like a sling-shot effect,,everything will start going backwards from expansion.

There are three possibilites:

1) Gravity will overcome the expansion and the Universe will begin to collapse back to a single point in a "big crunch"

2) Gravity will negate the expansion and the Universe will stop expanding and reach a steady size neither expanding nor contracting

3) Gravity is too weak to ever overcome the expansion and galaxies will continue to fly apart forever

With recent observations of an apparently accelerating expansion the only viable option is 3 if the observations are correct, but we don't understand the science behind it at all...

Laugh-Well, where's my theory in your theories?

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
Laugh-Well, where's my theory in your theories?

I think your "slingshot" theory is pretty much #1 on my list