The Anti-Non-Christian Conspiracy

"Popular" Christian Conspiracy Forum Cries Uncle: No More Non-Christians
The Anti-Non-Christian Conspiracy

Perhaps it's a stretch to call a forum with less than 2,000 members and under 200,000 guest visits since it's September 2001 inception "popular," but the emerging trend among prevalent Christian "movements" to shut out dissent and even to a large extent society (except to complain about it) is certainly becoming all the more common. And in such a fringe exclusive vacuum of homogenous peers, who isn't "popular?"

As per this Indepence Day announcement of "reorganization," TribulationForces.com, the prophetic end times forum run by Grace Prophetic Ministries, is now closed to regular forum contributions from non-Christians. Independence from independent thought.

One may certainly defend the reclusive rights of the home schooling amish-among-us all they like and with much good precedent, but when they're proud admitted Dominionists, as most modern Protestant Christian evangelical fundamentailsts certainly are, it goes beyond hypocritical to refuse to entertain the views of the very "outsiders" over which a Dominionists seeks dominion.

Granted as regards this particular fringe outlet, it always took a minimum number of posts and permission to discuss Catholicism and Islam in the Cults forum or Creationism in the Science forum, but now apparently even the NEWS in National and World Events is simply over the heads of non-Christians.

Well, it's actually more like their singular interpretation of all news events as a portend of the impending end of the world is over the heads of non-Christians. And the G'mod Squad has better things to do than lose debates and close threads pregnant with facts over dogma.

Although Civillians will be able to read all portions of the regular boards, they will not be able to take part in regular forum discussions. Our forum boards will be reserved for teaching, edification and building up of Christians… and not witnessing directly to the lost, but rather indirectly through our studies, findings and comments to each other.

Why the change?

...recent events, and postings over the last 6 months...

You're welcome.

I seriously believe though we'll start to see much more of this "Just Us" segregation not only in religion, but discussion of religion and even political and social discourse as we have in the recent examples of Democrats excommunicated from a NC church and the Pope refusing sacraments based on how Americans vote.

But when conspiracy communities start banning skeptics from the dialogue? That's no longer a community. It's a brainwashing cult. Terms and Conditions are one thing, but ideological conversion?

Perhaps an investigation is warranted not only of Grace Prophetic Ministries but any of these other On-Line Christ Centered Ministries now turning away input and membership based on idelology as to non-profit status or tax funded support. It's always nice to know what you're paying for. Of course, they could just be businesses out to make a quick buck. Most cults are.

[edit on 4-7-2005 by RANT]

This would be the Anti-Non-Christian Conspiracy.

Right Jake1997?

Can someone please tell me where the line:
"Hear no evil, see no evil, think no evil and evil won't exist" comes from in the context of shut out everything you don't wana hear or know and it doesn't exist?

Reason I'm asking is because no matter what faction acts like it, be it christians, muslims, rightwingers, leftwingers, ufologists or debunkers, its becoming stronger and stronger by the day.

People shut out what they don't want to hear or know about, they can't face the truth. They can't face life for what it is.

Heck, they are not even accepting new members of faith. Just tried to join so that I could check out your link there RANT but guess what... I am not allowed to participate, and I am of faith.
As for them pulling back into their shell, This is part of a siege mentality that is almost becoming a necessity today. I will say that in today's society. those of faith, any faith but especially those who profess to Catholism are indeed facing an extremely hostile world. It almost seems to be the new trend to bash christians, to ridicule and belittle them and the christian attempts to correct of respond to this hostility only paints a bullseye on themselves.
Even here on ATS, there is an open season on those of faith. Look at the rantings of James the Lesser as an example. Even Moderators and Super Mods have participated in this behaviour. Heck, if you notice my "mood" is me 2 ignorant. Why do I have that? A super mod stated that those of faith are both stupid and ignorant. Heck the Super mod did not even diegn to respond to a u2u asking why they ignored the TOS.

Do Christians and those of faith deserve this type of treatment? In a way yes and in other's no. The Catholic church has demeaned itself with the various sex scandals. The Catholic church as well as some christians have promoted that the bible is the True Word of GOD, unedited, unchanged throughout the centuries. There are faith groups who are attempting to deny science and to teach only biblical accounts of history including the beginings of mankind. Even the Catholic church does not support such an ideaology, it is only an extremist view and not one that is accepted by most christians.
Does that stop the hatred, knowing that such acts are only representative of a small precentage? No, in fact, all it does is to fuel the bonfire that is already blazing against christians.

I still, am one that will try to find a middle ground between both the religious extremeists as well as those who are anti-christian. Unfortunately, this is an area that raises emotions and emotional outbursts and any attempts to mediate almost seems futile. There is no longer a tolerance of religion.

I will not give up my faith in my religion and as long as there is this ongoing religious intolerance that accepts such statements as " those of faith are both stupid and ignorant, I will proudly wear such a title until once again, there is a balance and both those of faith as well as those who are against religion can learn to agree to disagree but allow each other to have their own viewpoint.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
I will not give up my faith in my religion and as long as there is this ongoing religious intolerance that accepts such statements as " those of faith are both stupid and ignorant, I will proudly wear such a title until once again, there is a balance and both those of faith as well as those who are against religion can learn to agree to disagree but allow each other to have their own viewpoint.

In my experience.. it doesn't take long after I confirm I am an atheist that I am told I am going to hell [where 'evil' people go] ..do you think it's okay for someone to make judgements on my personal morality because I don't believe? Why is it morally okay for a chirstian to belittle my beliefs just because they call it 'saving'? Whats the difference? Have a look at many other thread here.. people are constantly calling witches, pagens, evolutionists, 'non believers' and atheists devil worshipers.. then of course when they defend themselves from these personal attacks some flash the 'persecuted christian' card and say the defence was actually an unprovoked attack that was prophesised in the bible. They never seem to own up to their own actions.. [despite this moral highground they claim to have] but are always quick to play the 'innocent' victim. Sorry about the winge.. it just seems like everyone who refuses to convert are labelled anti-christian and trying to attack christianity.

[edit on 4-7-2005 by riley]

riley,
As we have discussed before and agreed on, or has things changed since then? You may have been told that by some, but can you say that you have been told that you are going to hell by all? I have certainly never said anything like that to anyone here or anywhere. Yet, it is okay for a mod or s mod to state that I am stupid and ignorant.
The following is actually a pretty toned down quote from JTL on another thread. thing is, where is his / her proof? Why the direct attack? Want to know how to get JTL off of a thread? ask for them to provide proof then show that the assumptions that (s)he bases their hatred is groundless. (S)he will leave the thread.
This is the common ACCEPT behaviour though so there is some reason to "flash the 'persecuted christian' card" How about both sides stop trying to drop the bomb?

you teach BS in school, and we'll teach reality in church. How would you like that?
Think about it, christians want Earth is flat, center, and created in 7 days taught at church, home, and school. But you try to teach science at church they'll kill you, or at least beat you unconscience so you have to go to the hospital.
How come they can burn houses down, vandalize cars, and beat people to get BS taught in school, but if someone tries to teach reality/kindness/humanity in church, well, they get the same treatment as someone who opposses them teaching flying rabbits from Mars ate all the dinosaurs and thats why there weren't any in the Garden of Eden in school.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
riley,
As we have discussed before and agreed on, or has things changed since then? You may have been told that by some, but can you say that you have been told that you are going to hell by all?

I said 'some' christians.. not all christians.. there are some christians here who actually practice what they preach.

I have certainly never said anything like that to anyone here or anywhere. Yet, it is okay for a mod or s mod to state that I am stupid and ignorant.

You are quite right.. things haven't changed. I thought it was only one mod? It may have just been your argument.. not your creed. I didn't see his/her post insulting you so I can't judge the context.. sorry it's still upseting you so much. do you want me to speak to their mother?

The following is actually a pretty toned down quote from JTL on another thread. thing is, where is his / her proof? Why the direct attack? Want to know how to get JTL off of a thread? ask for them to provide proof then show that the assumptions that (s)he bases their hatred is groundless. (S)he will leave the thread.

I'm not intersted in your issues with JTL.. [though it sounds like that person doesn't want heir kids being taught mythology in science].
I find it kind of tacky that you are discussing this individual specifically without allowing them the opportunity to give their own sides of the story.. same goes for the mod. You might have been arguing for days with him/her for all I know.. yet you give an account that paints you as an innocent, passive bistander. My beef with some people here is that there have been actual threads with themes attacking the morality of certain groups [eg atheists,pagens, gays] ..usually with some brief of how they are going to pave the way for an antichrist.. these are attacks on certain groups of people.. [not saying it hasn't happened the other way around] not heated discussions taking part in the middle of a threads.

This is the common ACCEPT behaviour though so there is some reason to "flash the 'persecuted christian' card" How about both sides stop trying to drop the bomb?

The delusional 'anti-christian' thread for instance was immediately used to attack non christians [for future attacks :shk:].. the difference is this persecution is not foretold in the bible.. doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[edit on 4-7-2005 by riley]

The example of JTL, was given as an example of accepted behaviour not that I have a problem with him/her specifically other than I detest general bigotry which he espouses. I find such bigotry directed against any group as wrong.
As for the issue with a mod or s-mod..... well, if the mods are above the rules of the TOS then that leaves ATS in a sorry shape, sort of like American politics
Again though, attacks by either are uncalled for and should be stopped. Unfortunately, there seems to be a very wide divide between both and neither wants to take a step toward the other to reach a middle road.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Heck, they are not even accepting new members of faith. Just tried to join so that I could check out your link there RANT but guess what... I am not allowed to participate, and I am of faith.

I wasn't sure how they'd handle their required agreement with their "Statement of Faith" for participation, but given their history of Christian on Christian crime (i.e. Catholicism = Cult) I'm not suprised you were denied.

I wonder how the once prolific Muslim and Hindu posters I noticed previously have been "handled" out the door. Or even the Biblical Christians that were pessimillenialists, meaning they had a slightly more mainstream interpretation of the Gospels and various subjects of discussion.

Also to clarify on your greater point, there are certainly hostile and witnessing "atheists" just as much as there are hostile and witnessing people of faith, but let's cut the agnostics some slack please.

I can't think of a more thoughtful, respectful and openly searching metaphysical postion than agnosticsm. That doesn't mean they can't debate, as I certainly do. But to the extent they profess no formal position should frankly be the template for government and education alike. To remain secular is not to be hostile. It's respectful of all.

But there are certainly those that take offense to not being agreed with on statements of faith (pro or con). And to the extent they conspire (pro or con) to silence their critics (as they most certainly do), is all the more reason for strong seperation of Church and State and an openly secular society as regards formal matters in public education, support, speech and space.

Rant

Also to clarify on your greater point, there are certainly hostile and witnessing "atheists" just as much as there are hostile and witnessing people of faith, but let's cut the agnostics some slack please

We are so on the same page here.I actually dislike those from BOTH sides who cannot at least be civil to each other. I stand on the side where both should be able to voice thier thoughts / opinions openly, but not make general and personal attacks against those who have opposing beliefs.
Such antics from both sides only leads to more animosity as well as engendering ignorance!

The answer lay in a gif.



[edit on 4-7-2005 by RANT]

EXCELLENT thread Rant. Trib Farces dot Com ... a sick cult that
produces ignorance. From a spiritual point of view, it definately
is NOT of the Holy Spirit. The spirit pushing that cult is demonic.
Nothing good will come of it.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Do Christians and those of faith deserve this type of treatment? In a way yes and in other's no. The Catholic church has demeaned itself with the various sex scandals.

Well, if the sex scandals of the Catholic church are the criteria that is to be
used to determine if Catholicism is to be treated as a cult .... then all the
protestant faiths had better put themselves into the cult catagory as well.

Just some of the protestant Sexual Abuse –

www.advocateweb.org.../hope/articles_clergy.asp&m=Clergy+Sexual+Abuse&d=%2E%2E%2Fcease%2Fcsa%2Ehtm

www.beliefnet.com...

www.advocateweb.org...

www.advocateweb.org.../hope/articles_clergy.asp&m=Orthodox_Abuse&d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eangelfire%2Ecom%2Fbc%2Forthodoxsurvivors %2Focampr%2Ehtml

www.advocateweb.org.../hope/articles_clergy.asp&m=Orthodox_Abuse&d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eangelfire%2Ecom%2Fbc%2Forthodoxsurvivors %2Focampr%2Ehtml

and the bottom of this has links to many other Christian denominations and abuse –
biblia.com...

When we lived in Alabama there was a Baptist Church across the street
from the Catholic one. The Baptist Church had two ministers. The younger
one got caught flashing in down town Huntsville. Up here in Philly, the
protestant church down the road had it's minister get in trouble for 'ministering' to a rape victim .. he was 'ministering' to her by putting a
semen filled napkin on the organ before church services (the victim was
the church organist). So not only did that poor woman get raped, but then
her 'spiritual helper' victimized her again.

The abuse is everywhere. It's sick. God help us all.

First, where does it say they are a conspiracy forum

Maybe an examination of their Statement of Faithis in order?
Once you find out that they believe everything in the bible, and if you know what is in the bible, you will find out why rcc doctrine is considered cultish along with other 'christian' doctrine such as JW, Mormon, etc

after that...

Maybe take a walk through the mission statement would be in order.

I believe their goal is to be a website where you can learn the bible as you can on so many static web pages, but also interact with those who are teaching it.
I believe they are not in the market to become the next ATS, hosting all ideas from all comers. There are many sites like ATS. There are also 'christian' sites that try to please everyone as well.
Call it a niche play. ;-)

That said...you can take a look at my last post there (date and content) and you can get an idea of what I feel about the changes that are taking place...spoken and non.

I do know this... God has used you to draw attention to a website (you are a very popular person here and many will checkout the link) that some folks would never be exposed to otherwise. Everyone of Gods children is a work in progress..(except one) and even tho they are swerving...they are still near the right road.

What am I missing here? [literal]
It's their site, with their perrogative.
Not like they are coming here, trying to stifle religious dissent.
What's the worst to happen? - another innocent victim ....... remains innocent.

Misfit

Originally posted by jake1997
First, where does it say they are a conspiracy forum

It's a doomsday cult Jake. Every topic is analyzed (now in gloriously homogeneous group-think) as a giddy portend of the end of the world and further "evidence" of the conspiracy that is science, or education, or Hollywood, or the media, or society, or anyone that's part of the conspiracy to say the world isn't ending. I shudder to think what's in the bowels of the Cults forum where Catholicism is discussed, but then most of that gets reposted here doesn't it?

It's a Christian Conspiracy Community at best, and a Science Fiction Fan Club at worst, since it seems to draw more of it's actual inspiration from the fiction of LayHae than the Bible.

And Misfit..

Originally posted by jake1997
Not like they are coming here, trying to stifle religious dissent.

You'd be surprised actually.

But the simple example I used of the growing infringements on less than lock step ideological converts was just that... an example. Sure, that's just website. America however is a bit more. As I said...

I seriously believe though we'll start to see much more of this "Just Us" segregation not only in religion, but discussion of religion and even political and social discourse as we have in the recent examples of Democrats excommunicated from a NC church and the Pope refusing sacraments based on how Americans vote.

The Dominionist movement has produced some of the angriest people on the planet this side of Islamic theo-terrorists, which happen to share the same agenda. Dominion. A generation of self described "Christians" have now been indoctrinated with this conspiracy talk of the "War on Christianity" and "Culture War" and "Divided America" with the singular purpose to "take back" that which they never had. And they're hostile. Punitive. Angry! Unapologetically black and white. With us or against us. Get in line or get out. The source of their outrage? The virtual conspiracies they create mostly. Citing each other ad nauseum from conspiracy sites like WorldNetDaily to Tribforces to ATS to the next to the next and back, repeating the same superficial nonsense so much they actually believe it.

But that's not the issue. What do they plan to do when they "take America back" for Christ? I think the website I cited requiring conversion or your privileges revoked is pretty telling. The inquisition, what a show...

I mean this is what authoritarians do. Always have. They invent conspiracies, play the victim, then run the "conspirators" out of town or burn them in the ovens. Nothing new under the sun whatsoever. It's a Christian tradition. Look at their scorecard of the vilified so far: The Illuminati, Masons, Jews, Catholics, Gays... Non-Christians. It follows. It's already happening.

The sheer volume of their disinfo is staggering. And the symbiotic groups they have doing the dissemination of their fake conspiracies are the ones in power (as fits the authoritarian conspiracy disinfo profile accordingly). Remember GOP admits to mailer before election saying liberals will ban Bible? So disgusting. It's no different than flyers that say Jews Eat Babies or the Illuminati (which inspired America's founding father's separation from religious tyranny) Worship Satan or just about anything WorldNetDaily (the #1 ranked Conservative "news" portal) publishes. They're fear and hate mongering liars these so called "Christians" out to take over the world through feigned persecution. And again, it's nothing new under the sun.

[edit on 23-7-2005 by RANT]

Hello, Rant;

As a Christian (I almost hate to use the term because of the automatic mind-picture it often generates) I could not agree with you more.
Speaking purely from my touchstone (as I interpret it) of the Bible, I don't see anywhere where Jesus authorizes me to try to wrest control of Government, try to spread my way of life through force or coerscion, or view "persecution" (however one wishes to define it) as anything other than to be expected from SOME elements of society. The idea of counteracting persecution, either real or IMAGINED, by assuming political power and forcing others to accept my ways is entirely antithetical to anything I read in the NEW testament. Jesus said quite clearly (I cite him only as the authority for Christians in this whole debate, not as an authority for anyone who chooses not to accept him as such) "In this world you will have trouble"; and I believe he meant that in a lot of different ways....
If I interpret your remarks correctly, we are in agreement on at least one issue (probably more); the so-called "war against Christianity" or "persecution of Christians" is simply a wrongheaded, and dangerous, interpretation of what it means to be a follower of Jesus in a secular society (and thank God for our secular society, wherein the legitimate rights of all to the freedoms of the Bill of Rights are supposed to be held sacrosanct...).
The maintainence of a healthy separation between religious belief and public policy CANNOT in any way be considered as a "war against Christianity" although a growing number of politically active "Christians" are buying into this misconception.
Sadly, I suspect much of it has to do with some peoples desire for raw political power, and other peoples desire to find an "easier" way to live the Gospel; after all, if the government supports your position then you don't have to face some of the more "uncomfortable" aspects of living the life...unless, of course, you don't fit the duly prescribed "mold" of what constitutes a Christian... . Then, one might find out quite quickly that it isn't such a good idea to have an human-imposed theocracy---fuelled by all the negative things humanity has, sadly, shown itself prone to over the millennia.
Just my own thoughts on the matter; accept or discard at your convenience (I know this is a given in civilized society, but I wanted to say it anyway).

I also think you will be hard pressed to find that particular group to be dominionists, out to take over a country or the world. You will find that quite ready to at least teach you to follow in Jesus steps of laying down your life for the Word..if it got to that point. Im not going to stand up for each and every one of their mods, but I do think I know what the intent of the founder is, and it is nothing short of what Jesus Christ taught.
Knowing the goal and getting there are two different tasks.

Your incorrect assesment based on your lack of knowledge (we call that ignornace here) of the bible is what is causing you to paint them as demons and judge them accordingly.
That is all on you. Not them.

That fact of the matter is, beyond superficial comparisons to pagan religions, your not really sure of whats in the bible.

People who want to be left alone are not commiting a crime. Your bordering on hypocrycy. On one hand you say that christians™ who force their beliefs on others are bad....and now...a group wants to be left to their own kind and you say that is bad.

In the end, it didnt matter what I thought and it wont matter what you think. Neither of us set policy there. Its their site. As best I can tell, they are using the bible as the guide

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Beyond that, if that particular site is really at the heart of this..then get more info from them.

Originally posted by apocalypticon
Hello, Rant;

As a Christian (I almost hate to use the term because of the automatic mind-picture it often generates) I could not agree with you more.

Apocalypticon, thank you first of all, thank you very much for seeing my concerns not as an attack on Christianity itself or it's followers as a whole (or blowing the website example out of proportion for that matter). I believe everything you said to be quite valid on it's own, and even more powerful as an acknowledgement by a thoughtful practicing Christian. It's certainly all worthy of requote, but I'll focus on one aspect to stay succinct.

This really boils down to the key difference between dangerous authoritarianism versus freedom (which is absolutely essential to an individual's practice of Christianity as he or she sees fit in the first place):

Originally posted by apocalypticon
The maintenance of a healthy separation between religious belief and public policy CANNOT in any way be considered as a "war against Christianity" although a growing number of politically active "Christians" are buying into this misconception.
Sadly, I suspect much of it has to do with some peoples desire for raw political power, and other peoples desire to find an "easier" way to live the Gospel; after all, if the government supports your position then you don't have to face some of the more "uncomfortable" aspects of living the life...

Exactly. Especially as regards the desire for power. Sadly, this is an inherent aspect of the witnessing religions of Islam and Christianity, both of which have been corrupted as political forces as much as spiritual exercises over the centuries. And of the three major religions sharing a God (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) conflict is unending. In the macro this is as obvious as the front page of any newspaper. In the micro, perhaps a Westerner needs to examine Islamic sects at war for power such as Sunnis versus Shi'ites, or Sunnis and Shi'ites versus Sufi's, or Kahrijites versus everyone else to see what various sects of Christianity at war to claim God as their own actually look like to the rest of the world. It's not pretty.

And when the sects under one umbrella join forces to fight the perceived threat of "secularism" they attempt to demonize as a sect unto itself in order to justify their war of aggression, it's called Islamic Extremism on one side, and I use Brand X Activism to refer to the extremist cancer on our own shores.

To the authoritarian fundamentalist everything is a threat from science to liberty to the light of day (see TribFarces for details). And as such the offending entities are demonized not only as "anti-Christian" but as "no better than us" in efforts to call anything it seeks to wrestle for dominion just another cult, religion or system of belief. However, as you exemplify quite clearly as a Christian seeking no authority over others and upholding the ideals of liberty as provided by secular protections (not superior to your Christian beliefs, but as supportive of them), there is no conflict. None whatsoever. No threat to Christianity. And (to your second point) the only threat to an individual's Christian salvation living in a non-theocracy (where morality isn't imposed but rather a choice), is his own weakness of will and spirit.


[edit on 24-7-2005 by RANT]

Originally posted by RANT
It's a doomsday cult Jake.

Rant ... you HAD to take psychology courses in college, didn't ya'?
This statement, and your 'group think' statement, are right on the
money. As you know, techincially ALL RELIGIONS fall under the 'cult'
definition, but tribfarces definately falls under the group think and
doomsday cult definitions. I wrote a paper in college on christian
groups growing from healthy to unhealthy worship practices.
(from a psychological point of view) TribFarces falls into that group.
They don't stockpile guns like the Elizabeth Clare Prophet end times
cult does, but thats because they have the false notion of 'Rapture'
going for them. Other than that ... it fits end times cult definition.
Absolutely.

It's a Christian Conspiracy Community at best, and a
Science Fiction Fan Club at worst, since it seems to draw more of it's
actual inspiration from the fiction o LayHae than the Bible.

They all need to read 'The Rapture Trap' and the other books out
there, many written by protestants themselves, who easily debunk
the whole escapist soul-candy notion of 'Rapture'.

The sheer volume of their disinfo is staggering.

and unfortunately the cultists further disiminate the regurgitated
Jack Chick garbage all over the rest of us. Just what we want ...
cult vomit spewing forth ... yuk!

They're fear and hate mongering liars these so called "Christians"

The followers are sad, pathetic creatures taken in by false prophets -
false prophets who are making a massive profit and who are driven
by an UNholy spirit.

Perhaps an investigation is warranted not only of Grace Prophetic Ministries but any of these other On-Line Christ Centered Ministries now turning away input and membership based on idelology as to non-profit status or tax funded support.

EXCELLENT idea! Let's do it. If it is run on private funds, then everyone
has a right to be an idiot and donate, even if the group is pumping out
garbage. But if there are PUBLIC funds ... that's another story.

Joseph Lawendowski, GPM President

This is what the leader believes in his own words ….

www.catchingaway.com...

This is where that belief comes from – It’s really a revival
of the old End Times Cult invented by Nelson Darby from the early 1800’s.

www.catholic.com...

NOTE - still looking for a money trail ....

[edit on 7/24/2005 by FlyersFan]