Rove Outed CIA Agent Valerie Plame???

Originally posted by RANT
Didn't everyone know it was Rove years ago?

Why is this remotely surprising?

Agreed RANT.
Personally, does a man of Rove's position have access to such information, as who are individual CIA agents?
If so, why?

Furthermore, Rove is smart enough to know that if such is true, that he would have cleared out of the White House, so as to prevent the fallout damage.

This could simply be a smear campaign against Rove, IMHO, until further evidence is brought forth: verified and confirmed.

Also, Valarie Plume should be investigated for using her CIA position for political gains and advantages.

I find it HILARIOUS that the Dems and liberals want Rove's head for this, if it is verified true, and yet, we can have Democrat Senate Armed Services and Intelligence Committee members, etc, revealing PUBLICALLY, CIA operations, government secret projects, etc.!? You see them being called for termination, etc.?

Freakin' hilarious...or should I say ironically hypocritical...





seekerof

[edit on 2-7-2005 by Seekerof]

If this turns out not to be true, it is merely a shot accross the bow of the Rove machine. A sort of warning (from Cheney?) not to take himslef too serioulsy.

If it does turn out to be substantiated, then it is a sort of night of the long knives. The Rove machine will be dismantled. The whole point of the Rove machine is to figure out how to win elections. Perhaps they don't need them anymore. That would be ominous indeed.

Seeing Rove on tv boils my blood more than seeing Bush. I honestly feel that Bush truly believes he is righteous and has just been groomed since an early age to be where he is now. A part of him seems like a lost child, from a profiling analysis. But Karl Rove, grandson of a high ranking German Nazi, has a long history of doing whatever it takes to set forth his agenda. Rove is definately one of the puppet masters of the neo conservatives.

I want to see Rove removed from power, so he can sit at home and think 'Gee, maybe all the bad things I did had a profoundly negative impact on people'.

For those who say there are no conspiracies...just look at what happened to Wilson's wife. After Wilson stood up and said 'wait, your lying about the Nigerian Uranium sale to Iraq', boom! His wife gets outed by Rove to the press, endangering her life as well as compromising national security. This is what Rove and his neo con cadre are all about. Complicit in terrorism to springboard agendas and wars, leaking secret agents, threatening political opposition, etc.

At any rate, I am neither republican nor a democrat not of any affiliation.
I see both two different heads of the same coin. I still think the Clinton administration should be investigated for the possible coverup of TWA 800 and other events. Obviously 9/11 was planned when Clinton was in office.
It's just one giant oroburos.(I mean look at the joke of an election last Nov, two members of Skull n Illuminati Bones, what a great choice)


[edit on 2-7-2005 by 8bitagent]

Originally posted by WestPoint23

You'll soon get used to alternative views of news events if you decide to hang around.

No he will get used to theories and conspiracy about everything toped off with some bush bashing when ever possible. Enjoy ATS!

Delta Tango -7385

We have another one of those Bush sympathizers. Tag subject level C.

Delta Tango -5923

According to Newsweek:

Initially, Fitzgerald's focus was on Novak's sourcing, since Novak was the first to out Plame. But according to Luskin, Rove's lawyer, Rove spoke to Cooper three or four days before Novak's column appeared. Luskin told NEWSWEEK that Rove "never knowingly disclosed classified information" and that "he did not tell any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA." Luskin declined, however, to discuss any other details. He did say that Rove himself had testified before the grand jury "two or three times" and signed a waiver authorizing reporters to testify about their conversations with him. "He has answered every question that has been put to him about his conversations with Cooper and anybody else," Luskin said.

The Rove Factor

From 2005:
Ex-Prosecutor: Plame Leak Not Illegal

Also, from 2004:
Rove testifies before panel in CIA leak investigation

From 2003:
Did Rove Blow a Spook's Cover?
Novak: 'No great crime' with leak

Over-reaction and unjustified condemnation must be the growing "new trend" these days, huh?








seekerof

High Crimes

Originally posted by Nerdling
Did Rove commit treason??

From the U.S. Constitution:
Article III. Section 2. Clause 1. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

So did Karl Rove commit treason?

If he did, neither the topic nor content of this thread has provided any evidence to establish as much.

Did he “out” Valerie Plame? He has testified to the federal grand jury that he did not, and this has been widely publicized as several links in this thread indicate.

So if Karl Rove did “out” Valerie Plame, he's busted.

He certainly didn't commit treason. Even if he did "out" Valerie Plame, it's still not clear that that would be a crime, as the law is quite narrow and specific as to the motivations of the person who let the info slip.

Anyway, it wasn't much of a revelation as it was widely known in Washington circles that she was a CIA agent, I don't think this came as any news whatsoever to any hostile foreign intelligence agency.

I don't believe there would be a sitting grand jury investigating this issue if no crime was committed by outing the agents name.

Why call a special prosecutor and grand jury if there was no crime?

As for it being Rove. It just seems like too stupid a move for him. Let's face it, the man is no idiot. He was able to secure a victory in 2000 without popular vote and to use religion to secure the win in 2004. I can't stand the man and in my private moments have wondered if he is not possibly the anti-christ himself but he is a smart man. Why would he do something so risky?

Also if it was Rove would the two reporters really have sat on the story? They hold the key to the biggest political scandal since Watergate. Something seems fishy to me.

Now if this is true, I would be willing to bet as the story breaks this week we will see more of those "special" terror alerts like during the election. Tom Ridge is out so they don't have to worry about running over him like they did during the election.

Can you imagine the uproar if a democrat had "outed" a CIA operative. Do you think the word treason would be used?

Rove isn't stupid, but neither was Pres. Nixon. Arrogant people in politics make enemys as evidenced by the "deep throat" revelations.

Who could feel threatened by Rove? I can think of a few in the GOP that shake in their boots at the meer mention of his name.

Just conjecture though!

[edit on 2-7-2005 by whaaa]

If it was Rove, Fire it and bring him to trial. If he's found guilty give him 10 years !

Dallas

People need to calm down they don't even know who it is yet, but they are already pointing the finger a the Bush administration., typical.

By the way the constitution say “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”. Yup, I guess Dick Durbin committed treason along with some of the other liberal senators.

Let's be clear--under the Intelligence Protection Act, it is a federal crime punishable by fine and/or imprisonment for anyone who has access to classified information to expose the identity of an agent to someone who is not allowed access to such information. Rove is a Bush's Deputy Chief of Staff. That comes with a heck of a Security Clearance.

TITLE 50 > CHAPTER 15 > SUBCHAPTER IV
§ 421. Protection of identities of certain United States undercover intelligence officers, agents, informants, and sources
(a) Disclosure of information by persons having or having had access to classified information that identifies covert agent
Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(b) Disclosure of information by persons who learn identity of covert agents as result of having access to classified information
Whoever, as a result of having authorized access to classified information, learns the identify of a covert agent and intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent’s intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

(c) Disclosure of information by persons in course of pattern of activities intended to identify and expose covert agents
Whoever, in the course of a pattern of activities intended to identify and expose covert agents and with reason to believe that such activities would impair or impede the foreign intelligence activities of the United States, discloses any information that identifies an individual as a covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such individual and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such individual’s classified intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This means that everyone in the CIA and the White House involved in leaking Plame's name to the press is guilty of a crime.

We do know that the leak came from the White House and we do know that Karl Rove, a senior White House staff member, was interviewed by Matthew Cooper for his infamous article.

The deeper issue here is that this does lend credence to Joe Wilson's claims that a smear campaign was launched to discredit him and make stronger the case for cherry-picked intelligence to construct the case to go to war with Iraq. If Rove or someone else close to the President (and who is paid out of taxpayers pockets) is implicated in something illegal--especially if it further weakens the foundations for the war in Iraq, I think that the feeling that there was a betrayal of trust by the Bush Administration will be palpable across America.

Rove's claim has been that he got the information from Novak's article and just repeated it to Matthew Cooper, but my guess is that Rove leaked the information to Robert Novak also (didn't he leak to Novak before? When he was working for GHWB, who was none too pleased if I can recall....) and Novak cut a deal for immunity before he offered his testimony where he implicated Rove as his source. Rove will have lied under oath already--and we all know how serious a crime it is for someone in the White House to lie under oath...

...as is aiding terrorists by obstructing the search for WMDs (as Plame's role in the CIA was to monitor the proliferation of WMDs...well, that was before she had to be let go when her cover was blown.) Doesn't that make him an enemy combatant? Shouldn't he be immediately shipped to Gitmo? Or Uzbekistan? Why even give him a trial? If Rove did out Plame, he could be endangering the country as we sit here, defenseless. Knowing the evil plots in his brain is of critical importance to protecting freedom and democracy--hang him by his eyelids, boil an arm in oil--this isn't the time for "moderation and restraint!" I'm sure that we "liberal wussies" in NYC aren't going to complain about "aggressively questioning" someone like Rove... followed by some therapy, of course.





[edit on 3/7/05 by lmgnyc]

Some say Rove would to be too smart to do something like this. I disagree, it is a trademark of the Bush cabinet and comrades to do things very cavalier...look at the over the top way Bush and company lied every single day for over a year to the public about reasons to invade Iraq. And if just one of the several dozen or so credible 9/11 anomalies pointing to government knowlege, help or complicity is true, it will be yet another illustration of the lengths the PNAC gang will go to.

Clinton gets a sexual favor a couple times in th emid 90's, and the Republicans go all out like it was nuclear war. Bush and company go beyond th eimagination in so many wrongdoings, yet noone in the media or mainstream raises any eyebrows.

I don't think Karl Rove had access to classified information in his role, so the thing that would apply to him is the third part, which says:

Whoever, in the course of a pattern of activities intended to identify and expose covert agents and with reason to believe that such activities would impair or impede the foreign intelligence activities of the United States

So they'd have to prove that he did this with intention of impairing or impeding the foreign intelligence activities of the United States, a pretty high hurdle.

The Bush camp is a sneaky bunch of snakes.

I'm not sure how this will go down, but hopefully
Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld will get what they deserve
for their corruption.

FallenFromTheTree you didn't by any chance fall from a tree and hit your head on the ground did you?

Wow. The hatred of Karl Rove is so intense on the left that it now comes down to accusing him of treason.
Forget that Plame and Wilson are Democrats with an axe to grind, and that Wilsons book is filled with lies,or that Sen. Leahy once revealed CIA agents identity with no more punishment than removal from the intellegence committee.
The next thing we will be seeing is Dems demanding that since the charges are so serious, he should be made to resign, forget the presumption of innocence or due process, just as stating the facts of Liberal response to 9/11 is cause for democrat Senators demanding he resign.
Maybe he can share a jail cell with Tom De Lay, that seems to be the Dem solution to thier political opponants.

Democrat or Republican, anyone who does this in such a manner without approval should be punished. Lets not play the blame game (for instance rove can do it because a liberal did) but what should happen is that somebody should get to the bottom of this and give punishment where due.

Er... guys, the Newsweek story came out this morning. I don't think it's a coincidence that this is breaking on a 3 day weekend with so much other news going on.

Read it and weep:

July 11 issue - Its legal appeals exhausted, Time magazine agreed last week to turn over reporter Matthew Cooper's e-mails and computer notes to a special prosecutor investigating the leak of an undercover CIA agent's identity. The case has been the subject of press controversy for two years. Saying "we are not above the law," Time Inc. Editor in Chief Norman Pearlstine decided to comply with a grand-jury subpoena to turn over documents related to the leak. But Cooper (and a New York Times reporter, Judith Miller) is still refusing to testify and faces jail this week.

At issue is the story of a CIA-sponsored trip taken by former ambassador (and White House critic) Joseph Wilson to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking to buy uranium from the African country of Niger. "Some government officials have noted to Time in interviews... that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a CIA official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction," said Cooper's July 2003 Time online article.

Now the story may be about to take another turn. The e-mails surrendered by Time Inc., which are largely between Cooper and his editors, show that one of Cooper's sources was White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, according to two lawyers who asked not to be identified because they are representing witnesses sympathetic to the White House. Cooper and a Time spokeswoman declined to comment. But in an interview with NEWSWEEK, Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Rove had been interviewed by Cooper for the article. It is unclear, however, what passed between Cooper and Rove.

The controversy began three days before the Time piece appeared, when columnist Robert Novak, writing about Wilson's trip, reported that Wilson had been sent at the suggestion of his wife, who was identified by name as a CIA operative. The leak to Novak, apparently intended to discredit Wilson's mission, caused a furor when it turned out that Plame was an undercover agent. It is a crime to knowingly reveal the identity of an undercover CIA official. A special prosecutor was appointed and began subpoenaing reporters to find the source of the leak.

Novak appears to have made some kind of arrangement with the special prosecutor, and other journalists who reported on the Plame story have talked to prosecutors with the permission of their sources. Cooper agreed to discuss his contact with Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's top aide, after Libby gave him permission to do so. But Cooper drew the line when special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald asked about other sources.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Rove is so busted. But the spin machine is already going to work saying it's not a big deal. So says the White House - I say that it's despicable. It shows clearly how far Bush and Co are willing to go to silence people. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. /sarcasm

What do you expect? Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. While our grandads were fighting Nazi Germany, Rove's granddad was reaping in profits from exterminating Jews. Now we're fighting this war on terror, and Rove is blowing the cover of our agents.

Rove's grandfather was Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg. Roverer was Reich-Statthalter---Nazi State Party Chairman---for his region. He was also a partner and senior engineer in the Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurburo A. G. engineering firm, which built the Birkenau death camp, at which tens of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, dissidents and other were slaughtered en masse.

Hang 'em high.
Rove Family's Nazi Past