Debate Tournament Commentary

Originally posted by thelibra

No worries, mate. I didn't even notice, to be honest.

Yer up. I'm spent, closing statement is posted. It's time to begin the drinking.

well i did mine too. it was a pretty weird debate. I haven't met such a tenacious opponent in a long time, it's almost like he thinks I'm using his words to wipe my ass. I guess the judging will tell what's what.

though!

[edit on 29-7-2005 by ktprktpr]

MemoryShock - No worries, mate. It was a bad day that day, and text is almost never condusive to playful sarcasm, as tone is so difficult to relay. I think it was more shock than anything. I offered to ignore the time penalty, and suddenly I saw people calling me arrogant and inept. Needless to say, I reacted poorly. We're still buds.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Wrong. I favor a gentleman, which you have always been.

I regret two things: first, not having been able to play it through; but that does not repeat not take away from my worthy opponent. I am looking forward to the final debate, and second that both of my esteemed colleagues and friends The Libra and Wyrde could win.

Thank you, OTS, you have always been a good friend, and if we had both made it to the final round I think it would have been one helluva good slugfest.

Which isn't to say WyrdeOne or any of the debators in this tournament wouldn't be a good fight, but with our history, and knowing your professional credentials, I think I'd be hard pressed just to stay even, much less win. Perhaps a grudge match, at our leisure (without time constraints, or very loose ones) in the future may be in order.

Originally posted by ktprktpr
well i did mine too. it was a pretty weird debate. I haven't met such a tenacious opponent in a long time, it's almost like he thinks I'm using his words to wipe my ass. I guess the judging will tell what's what.

It was, admittedly, a very...well...weird sums it up nicely. I think it's fair to say we both felt our inner beast roar for blood. I won't forget, though, your offer to drop the subject before we started. Honestly, had I actually read it in time before making the first post, I probably would have taken you up on it. As fate would have it, I didn't bother scrolling through back pages of the commentary till afterward.

May the best debator win, man. It was hard fought, and you are quite ruthless in the arena.

Well... guess we'll know the results sooner than later, since only one actual debate took place this round. Either way, good luck.

I think it's fair to say we both felt our inner beast roar for blood. I won't forget, though, your offer to drop the subject before we started. Honestly, had I actually read it in time before making the first post, I probably would have taken you up on it. As fate would have it, I didn't bother scrolling through back pages of the commentary till afterward.

Well, i wrote my second reply like 40 minutes before work and I was pissed off that the 24 hour deadline happened to land right when ig ot off of work (can't realy post at work). So that came out in that post. I was allowed extra time to transcribe it and post, which was good.

After that i kinda stopped caring as much (hence my accidental post forgeiture). That's why my posts are a lot more respectful after that. Honestly, I was taken aback by how vehmently you said i misquoted you. It's probably a debate tatic but I haven't seen it used to good effect in a long long while.

EIDT - I also wonder if you thought these debates were more formal than they are. I always think of them as an educated brawl where you're gunning to appease the general population.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by ktprktpr]

Originally posted by thelibra
MemoryShock - No worries, mate. It was a bad day that day, and text is almost never condusive to playful sarcasm, as tone is so difficult to relay.

If you knew me in real life......I do operate on playful sarcasm.....always with a sly grin and a follow up to include myself in the gutter......I guess I just assumed that it would be apparent.....I take full responsibility....

Originally posted by thelibra
We're still buds.

In the real world, I'd buy you you a beer.....

To get back on topic......excellent debate to the both of you. Your points were right on the crux of the issue....

So....

Anyone wanna take bets on how long it'll take the judges to decide? I bet a week from today!

Originally posted by ktprktpr
So....

Anyone wanna take bets on how long it'll take the judges to decide? I bet a week from today!

Well the judging time seems to be directly proportional to the amount of debates to be decided. So, about a month I reckon.

Well done to both ktprktpr and theLibra for hacking their way with style through an awful topic!!!

So anyone want to hazard a guess as to the next debate subject? Here's my guesses.

1.) "Children should not be severely beaten"
2.) "The Nazis were bad."
3.) "Jesus loved Firearms."
4.) "Everyone loves Raymond"
5.) The Libra would make an excellent world dictator

Remember, none of these arguments are one-sided in the slightest. It's all on how you argue them...

Originally posted by thelibra
So anyone want to hazard a guess as to the next debate subject?

errrr.....How about:

1.) The sun rises in the morning.
2.) The Final Solution would have worked.
3.) Racial Stereotypes are a valuble tool for the employer.
4.) Voting is for losers.
5.) Martial law is a great way of life.
6.) Red is Orange, or sometimes Green.
7.) We are the World. We are the People.
8.) Electricity is microscopic little elves running along wires.
9.) The Earth is Flat.
10.) Who needs whales?

Originally posted by thelibra
4.) "Everyone loves Raymond"
5.) The Libra would make an excellent world dictator

Stupid topics. 4 is obviously yes, and 5 is obviously a joke.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
1.) The sun rises in the morning.
4.) Voting is for losers.
6.) Red is Orange, or sometimes Green.
8.) Electricity is microscopic little elves running along wires.

1. OR DOES IT?!
4. LOSER!
6. Ever been hit in the head really hard?
8. Bah! They're obviously gnomes.

Look. If you guys really want the next topic, I'll give you two hints:
1. It starts with "T"
2. It ends with "he Rolling Stones Are Too Old."

I'm assuming this thread is for outright critique of the debates, right? What the hell happened with the last round with thelibra and ktpr??? Is that the best this membership can produce? A couple of people catfighting and twisting the other person's words versus using their own voice in a logical argument?

bah!

I sense a lack of humor and logical appreciation from Val. It's clear she just sucked up the sensationalistic aspects of the debate and left her mind hollow to the meat. Her loss if she found no levity or insight.

btw,

Is that the best this membership can produce?

You want to show us better?

I propose a random insertion of Val as a debate candidate. Some may say such a battle might be cruel but her confidence and spunk should prove to overpower what she sees as a cesspool of cat fighting and word twisting!!! You want to bring it on!? Bring it!


[edit on 1-8-2005 by ktprktpr]

Originally posted by Valhall
I'm assuming this thread is for outright critique of the debates, right? What the hell happened with the last round with thelibra and ktpr???

I'm just grasping for straws here, but I'm going to say...ummm...
A Debate?

Originally posted by Valhall
Is that the best this membership can produce? A couple of people catfighting and twisting the other person's words versus using their own voice in a logical argument?

As opposed to such fine spokespersons as yourself?
(WATS 2004 notwithstanding)

Tell you what. When you put in over a month of solid debate, and a third of that is spent using all your free time to research your side of the debate, and then, after three rounds, get handed such a lopsided topic (and frankly, I still think it's a racist topic as well), that both contestants nearly decide to forfeit in disgust, and then you manage to pull a spin that would at least allow for some measure of debate to happen, then we'll talk, and I'll be happy to hear any criticism you happen to think up.

Until that point, I'll just assume someone pissed in your Rice Krispies and you're spraying it in other people's faces.

Or did you have something constructive to say? Maybe some specific points you disagreed with? Perhaps you didn't like the delivery? Some facts didn't check out? Maybe you could be a tad less insulting and, dare I say, bitchy, and perhaps a little more informative on what you had a problem with.

I would think, as a member of the ATS Council Staff, WATS'04, and Subject Matter Expert, you would have a slightly better grasp of reality and tact than to post such drivel without some serious ammo to back it up.

Originally posted by Valhall
Is that the best this membership can produce?

Ohhhh dear......


There should be a disclaimer on the top of the discussion thread:

"Debaters may be hopped up on Adenaline/Piss/Vinegar after a debate. Please allow several days for them to cool off before insulting their technique"

I met a guy going to a town market once with a bag of shoes to sell. The problem was they were all left shoes. I asked him:

"Dan, where are you going with a bag of lefts? How will you ever sell any of those?!?"

To which Dan replied:

"I'll do best can. Do best can."

The two debaters you are slagging also got a bag of left shoes in that last debate topic. So like Dan and his bag of lefts, the two debaters did best can......


Apoligies for Irish twee-ness in advance.....diddly-idle-day..top'o da mornin' to ya.....

Well, with no word yet from the Val, I guess we can only assume she's conceded. We're right, she's wrong, that's how it is.

Or maybe she doesn't have the time to reply..because she's too busy arranging to have you guys killed!

I think you should take Val's advice from the earthquake threads, and..RUN AWAY!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy

Originally posted by thelibra
1.) The sun rises in the morning.

This, interestingly, is an old position that's used in teaching rhetoric, i beleive.

Or rather that "the sun allways rises". It was one of those 'absolutes' that the greeks had delimited as occuring in the world, along with things like 'bread nutures' (or sustenance nutures) and other absolute positions. BUt the intersting thing is, the sun doesn't allways rise! It used to not even be around. THe earth could be destroyed and there'd be no sunrise, the sun will eventually be destroyed, and even the universe, so its not true at all. And sometimes bread is completely rotten, or filled with poison, and does anything but nutures.

Thats where real rhetorical skills, arguing the con position against absolutes!

Hmm, I guess we will make it the Finale!

If the sun rises and nothing is there to see it, does it rise?

Personally, as far as I'm concerned, if I don't pull up my shade and I don't go outside, then sun doesn't rise.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy

Originally posted by thelibra
1.) The sun rises in the morning.

This, interestingly, is an old position that's used in teaching rhetoric, i beleive.

Or rather that "the sun allways rises". It was one of those 'absolutes' that the greeks had delimited as occuring in the world, along with things like 'bread nutures' (or sustenance nutures) and other absolute positions. BUt the intersting thing is, the sun doesn't allways rise! It used to not even be around. THe earth could be destroyed and there'd be no sunrise, the sun will eventually be destroyed, and even the universe, so its not true at all. And sometimes bread is completely rotten, or filled with poison, and does anything but nutures.

Thats where real rhetorical skills, arguing the con position against absolutes!

Hmm, I guess we will make it the Finale!

Notice how you had to stretch the boundaries and so forth. That's what we did as well, in our debate. What Val failed to appreciate is that two people can argue appropriately about a bad topic. Just because you dance well does not mean that the tune is excellent...


[edit on 2-8-2005 by ktprktpr]

Meow!

Wow, quite the talking of smack going on in this thread.

So much invective, ad hominem and general tauntery.

Gotta love it.