What do some of you think of this

Its from an artifact, like a seal or somesuch. Just, what are your impressions right off?

i'll bite.

mythros / mythras?

seven stars
crescent moon
anchor styled cross type thing

possibly greek letters ....

1200 b.c. to 700 b.c.?

I'm game for greek lettering, but I'm thinking it's younger than 1200-700 bc. Maybe early middle ages? The cross and the moon/stars remind me of Eastern Orthodox, and something about it just seems more from maybe mid 1st millinium to early 2nd (ie ~500 AD to maybe 1100 or 1200 AD).

Its from the 3rd century ad. I'm no ttrying to make a game out of this in case anyone is wondering. I just think its one of those things that is pretty striking.

Originally posted by Nygdan


Its from an artifact, like a seal or somesuch. Just, what are your impressions right off?

Well, it looks like a drawing of something ancient -- but there is no source quoted. I wasn't sure why.

My next thought is that this looks very familiar; is this not the 'crucified Orpheus' drawing on the cover of the book by Freke and Gandy? This is a redrawing of an image which has been considered to be a fake:



As far as I (ignorantly) know, there are few if any images of Jesus crucified from antiquity. Crucifixion was a shameful thing. So it is unlikely to be truly ancient.

Just my quick thoughts.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

[edit on 23/6/2005 by roger_pearse]

Originally posted by roger_pearse
My next thought is that this looks very familiar; is this not the 'crucified Orpheus' drawing on the cover of the book by Freke and Gandy? This is a redrawing of an image which has been considered to be a fake:

The redrawing is of a real drawing of a real item. But, the item is as real as the James ossuary. Prior to the second world war it was housed in the Berlin museum.

Originally posted by roger_pearseis this not the 'crucified Orpheus'

Spot on. Orpheus suffering on the cross, dying, and presumably being resurrected. The seven stars are possibly a reference to the pleides, the 'heavenly sisters', and the Crescent moon is often said to represent death and rebirth.

I find it really fascinating, it really looks like jesus on the cross.

considered to be a fake

Oh man, don't say that, its so fascinating, what a dissapointment if its fake.

I think that its interesting that there is this 'god on a stick' motif that's come up in lots of religion, like the oft noted osiris in a tree or Ishtar being hung from a pole in the underworld.

This peice is also interesting because it almost makes you think of some 'alternate' world in which you have a slightly different christianity or christian-like religion.

The usage of the stars and the crescent moon, at least to me, are so unchristian that it was rather confusing to see a christ-on-the-cross character coinciding with them

Those pages you brought up were pretty intersting roger_pearse. I started a thread about one of the pages it references here if anyone is interested.

it seems to be something realted to gnosticism... but who knows ... where did you get it from ? or did you draw it yourself ?

The citation I have for where I first saw it (I looked it up on the web to get the pic) is "Robert Esiler, Orpheus the Fisher, drawn by A. Becker and J.M. Watkins, London, 1921.

However the text, which is Joseph Campbell's The Transformation of Myth thru Time, states that its a cylinder seal from the 3rd century. However Poster roger_pearse's citation notes that its actually a jewel, from around that time, but thought by experts to actually be a fraud.

Fraud or not tho, its an interesting thing to look at.

[edit to add: the drawing to me almost looks like a fez, without the tassel, but its obviously not that!)

[edit on 24-6-2005 by Nygdan]

www.clydelewis.com...


Scroll down about halfway. It's another rendering of the talisman.

It's really strange that I just read that particular article then came here and found this thread.

edit to fix spelling

[edit on 6/24/2005 by darkelf]

Let me interject some humor. It looks like a shriner's hat without the tassle. Someone drew a depiction of the crucifixtion on it but added a macaroni on the bottom of the vertical beam. The victim attached to the cross has no features, meaning the artist was not very good at art beyond adding very basic dimension to the staple stick figure. Although the picture represents the headgear for a shriner, it is obvious, the artist has no concept of dimensions in that both the top and bottom of the tapered tube it represents has both a top end and bottom end. My evaluation is that either the artists drew this while standing up above his reference or they lied down low on the ground when they got tired, all the while forgetting the rule of perspectives. Maybe the artist lives in an added dimension, which is a possibility. The artist also was so disturbed by the subject of his render that they had to draw it through a mirror, as is evidenced by the backwards characters and the fact that the victim is pointed to the viewers right or the central figures left hand side, which means the vicitim could not have been Godly, in that God always had a great affection for the right side or the right hand. The alignment of the vertical beam and the angle of reflection on the moon means the subject was keenly aware that the earth, sun, and moon were all aligned with the said piece of wood at the time the artist created the work, or they just used the moon as a reference, because it was night and the only light (this doesnt explain the shading from another angle from the right of our view) I think there was possibly a carbon-arc spot somewhere off frame to the right during the pose. And for my slightly less humorous thoughts, the seven stars represent the number of perfection - 7. The idea that the top of the vertical beam divides the seven symbolizes the duality of the physical world or a dividing of 7. The arc of stars means that the artist had some sense of geometry or figured out the exact placement using trigonometry using an abacus or a TI scientific calculator. Maybe the arc represents that God is unhappy as an upside down smiley face. Even so, the stars are above the moon, which is above the central scene. This is an indication that stars get payed a lot more than the moon and the poor naked sap posing on the cross is probably working to buy some clothes. Of course, the bent macaroni at the bottom of the beam means that God hates pasta. This is clearly evident because God created Celiac Disease to punish people who eat flour made products as the ultimate curse for this religious figures death.

EDIT: Perhaps it isn't a macaroni, but a crude depiction of the serpent.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by ben91069]

Here's the pic.



It looks like your drawing is a reverse image.