Antichrist and the Grand UFO Conspiracy

A little perspective...

People have announced with grave seriousness that the 'End Times' are upon us for the last 500 years. They were no more correct than they are now.

This is simply a means of getting people into church, advertising if you will.

Every Era looks at itself and worries, Rock and Roll, OMG it is the Devils work. Wicca reappears in a modern form, again, the End Times are Upon Us.

Yet somehow the puny Human Race keeps going, Society does not collapse and the Sun keeps shining.

I certainly respect the right of anyone to believe what they wish, as long as they do not expect me to follow, or condemn me for not doing so. But for those of you who are Christian you should realize that only people who share your faith are going to take this idea of Aliens/Demons seriously. You have to believe first, and then, maybe, you will buy into this idea. You will find it hard to convince anyone because there is no logic to it.

For the rest of us, we have heard the cries of 'Wolf, Wolf' for so long that we simply cannot take the idea seriously.



A.T
(-)

First, to feyd rautha

Ya know, one has to get pretty low when a known Pagan / anti-Christian says that your attitude was just plain WRONG !!! I get into heated altercations with Christians here myself, but at least I attempt to keep a sense of dignity about myself, something you just failed at miserably.
The topis is "Antichrist and the Grand UFO Conspiracy", with that known fact, why the hell did you open the thread? If you know you hate a certain food, do you still open it and eat it? Ugh!

K, to topic

I find it odd that Christians always seem to correlate UFO's with Satan. Never do I see a proposal that perhaps the UFO's are your Gods' way of fulfilling your rapture?

Is it also not possible that UFO's are, oh, I don't know ........ UFO'S MAYBE??? I find it highly ironic that one can believe that in a millisecond all Christians will disappear, but not believe that these crafts may just be other life forms. Can't use the "Satans realm is the air" theory, as it is never dictated that he has power in the air over those "not" of Earth, Satan, as from the Bible, is all about man, so the thought of how would Satan have dominance over outside entities is all but nil.

Because something is not in your Bible, does not make it non-existant.

Misfit

Originally posted by helen670
"And in the latter times of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up." (Daniel 8:23)

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...." (2 Thessalonians 2:9)

The New Testament tells us that ''"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...."
So If Satan is called ''PRINCE OF THE AIR'' is it so hard to believe that he appears as an alien to FOOL the people .....
There have been many cases where ''Beings'' have appeared and disappeared.........
QUOTE//
This is very elementary. If you read any text of the early Fathers, any of the early Lives of Saints or the Lausiac History, you find many cases where beings suddenly appear.
Nowadays they appear in spaceships because that's how the demons have adapted themselves to the people of the times; but if you understand how spiritual deception works and what kind of wiles the devil has, then you have no problems in understanding what's going on with these flying saucers.

Helen, thank you so much for pulling those quotes. You have given solid foundation for my/this theory. IF you believe in the scriptures, then it makes perfect sense. I do.

Right now, at least half the US population already believes in UFOs. Can you imagine if they all "saw" "fire coming down from the heavens" and other related illusions? There's no way you could convince them that they are not seeing what they think they are.

There's a scripture that gives me pause,

(Matt. 24:24 )" For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Even the elect would be deceived were it not for the "shortening of their days" here. That's pretty heavy.

For more Matthew (The Beginning of Sorrows): www.angelfire.com...

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
But for those of you who are Christian you should realize that only people who share your faith are going to take this idea of Aliens/Demons seriously. You have to believe first, and then, maybe, you will buy into this idea. You will find it hard to convince anyone because there is no logic to it.

For the rest of us, we have heard the cries of 'Wolf, Wolf' for so long that we simply cannot take the idea seriously.

For the sake of those who are interested in the theory or in faith, it is worth discussing and sharing information.

For the sake of those who are interested in the theory or in faith, it is worth discussing and sharing information.

If someone feels that the key to understanding the topic of UFOs can be found in the Bible then this is the place to discuss it.

But...

That means that people who do not believe this is correct are free to say so and explain why. I add this because I have found that normally any sort of questioning offends a fair percentage of people.

So since I think that both the Aliens/Demons idea, and the End Times are completely, totally, and in all possible ways Incorrect, and I have a lifetime of what I consider to be an ongoing objective study of religions as the basis of my opinions...

If anyone cares to do so, look down a page or two, member Toasted started a thread on this very topic not too long ago. I have 2 very long posts on the subject which explain my position very plainly. I doubt it would be appreciated if I cut and pasted them here but anyone who wishes to engage in this with me might want to take a look.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So... as long as everyone understands that just because I may think someone is Wrong, it does not mean I do not respect their right to be so, it can be an interesting discussion.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 6/23/05 by Alexander Tau]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
But for those of you who are Christian you should realize that only people who share your faith are going to take this idea of Aliens/Demons seriously. You have to believe first, and then, maybe, you will buy into this idea. You will find it hard to convince anyone because there is no logic to it.

For the rest of us, we have heard the cries of 'Wolf, Wolf' for so long that we simply cannot take the idea seriously.

For the sake of those who are interested in the theory or in faith, it is worth discussing and sharing information.

For what it's worth Kid, if you look closely enough at the UFO phenomena over the years there's really more to lead people to a "demonic" conclusion then an extraterrestrial one. One needs to admit that "UFO research" is NOT a study of UFOs. We dont have one to study. The study is of reports filed by *people*. Look at the people...how it's effected them, how it's changed them, or what impact it has had on their life.

It's an interesting place to go with some in-depth study...you'd be surprised what you find.

Any subject can be studied from the point of view of the humans involved. And I agree that it is almost always rewarding and interesting to do so.

For most, research into UFOs is intended to work in a couple of stages. The first is to answer the basic question of 'are we alone'. Today we have the advantage of knowing about such an immense number of Stars that it seems very rational to use math as the basis for answering the primary question.

To put it simply, even if there had never been a single report of a UFO, the possibilities contained in Billions of Galaxies would be enough. But of course we do have plenty of reports to consider.

Once you have decided on the first stage, then it gets messy. Hoaxes for money, Disinfo to protect secrets, plain old ignorance, and the very subject of this thread, wishful thinking tied to religious beliefs, have to be sorted out. This is certainly not easy.

A non-specific example of the sequence of decisions we all have to make:
Is this person lying to sell something?
If No, then did they see anything real at all?
If Yes, then was it something normal and man-made?
If No, then was it Creature or Craft?

An in-depth analysis of the person doing the reporting is always necessary, what do they know, how do they see things in the world normally. Armed with that you can take a shot at interpreting what their descriptions actually mean.

The study of these concepts is the most demanding and comprehensive I have ever encountered. Nothing is simple and ideas and concepts from even 50 years ago are of little use. The total 'Truth' here has got to be mind-bending in it's complexity, scope, and depth.


A.T
(-)

The thing is this.. opinions are like a-holes, everybody's got one. Unfortunately this stuff remains intangible for the most part. Christianity boils down to faith - a belief in the unseen (hence, Doubting Thomas). As a child, my parents took me to church. I always believed in God altho I don't remember much proslytizing going on around me. It just seemed real to me. I've experienced a few experiences in my life, too, that I consider to be miracles. One medical. One saved my life. That only enhanced my belief.

Are we alone in this universe? My answer: No. As a believer, I accept that there are angels, demons, powers and principalities of power, both seen and unseen. Maybe that's why I have never put stock in the whole UFO/alien thing. It's already explained - to me.

I understand fully that those who reject faith in God will not see things my way. That's fine. No criticism here. I simply wanted to discuss it. Who knows, maybe it'll help someone.

Eastcoastkid, kindly clarify something for me. You stated:

According to end-time prophecy, the rapture will occur and all believers will be spirited off the earth "in the twinkling of an eye."

To be clear as who does the spiriting away, you define aliens as angels or demons, and note that Satan has control of the air:

I say aliens, or UFO's we see are actually angels or demons. The bible sez that Satan is the Prince of the Power of Air and that the earth and its atmosphere is his domain…

Therefore, the rapture as you see it:

the aliens snatching all those people would be an excellent excuse to explain away the rapture.

is not done by a benevolent entity or entities, but by Satan.

Are you positing then the so-called rapture some of the Christian world awaits, means they believe in the wrong entity, which would be Satan; the one doing the spiriting away?

No. People are confusing Satan and God. The biblical prophecies state that on the day of the rapture Christ will remove the church (ie believers) from this earth and into the presence of the Lord.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
No. People are confusing Satan and God. The biblical prophecies state that on the day of the rapture Christ will remove the church (ie believers) from this earth and into the presence of the Lord.

So if I truely believe in god then when he "comes back" I will go to heaven?

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
No. People are confusing Satan and God. The biblical prophecies state that on the day of the rapture Christ will remove the church (ie believers) from this earth and into the presence of the Lord.

Sorry, I am still not following your position, between the good guys and the bad guys, so let me put these to you:

You state that it is Satan and demons who are aliens/ufos, is that correct?

You state that it is Satan and demons who will snatch people and make them disappear into the air/sky, is that correct?

You state that Revelation says it is the believers who will be raptured, is that correct?

Therefore, if Satan and demons are doing the snatching/lifting, then it stands to reason that the ones they are snatching are the believers, is that not correct?

Therefore, if the believers are snatched by Satan then those believers are the Christians who subscripe to the apocalypse of Revelation, is that correct?

Therefore those believers have been duped into believing Satan, is that not correct?

Are you stating then, that since it is Satan and demons who will be doing the snatching, and it is Jesus who is supposed to "remove the church (ie believers), then are you not stating that Jesus and Satan are one and the same?

The Luciferian Liberation Front believes that the rapture is a bad thing - an alien conspiracy to dupe Christians into allowing themselves to be abducted.

Perhaps we are all seeing a portion of the truth- like the three blind men trying to describe an elephant without being able to see the whole picture.
Here's something I've been thinking about. If you or I were to travel to some remote jungle and communicate with a tribe that has no prior contact with modern technology - how would we describe the technology that we take for granted? Planes? Boats? ( or even the distance they travel to someone who has no concept of seas, oceans and continents ), How about computers? There are people living on this planet right now who could only begin to understand the concept of a personal computer through allegorical tales of magic and spiritualism.
Now all I ask from both atheist evolutionists and religious creationists is that you suspend your disbelief long enough to let me explain why I believe we are arguing the same point.
I believe the book of Genesis holds possibly the oldest historical record of evolution and Darwin's theory the first scientific evidence of creation. The only real difference between the two is the timeline. God said "Let there be light" and there was the big bang. God consolidated the material of Earth to solidify it just as evidenced in evolutionary equations. On and on each step in our planet's early history is mirrored in these " opposing" theories.
So where am I going with this? The Hebrews called their creators "Yaweh", the Sumerians called them Annunaki or Nibiru. I say our creators are alien - that we were created as either an experiment or simply as a form of entertainment by an actual, literal race who shortly after our creation experienced a failed revolution. The expatriated rebels - including membes of the reigning body's "court" came to Earth to recuperate and rebuild. This rebel faction began working with their enemy's prized experiment to create a new army that would be intelligent and aggressive. The only deterrant would be the intelligent creation's discovery of the truth. Because we were given free will ( without it there couldn't be true intelligence ) we would have to remain decieved in order to willfully go against the nature of our creator- and if we begin to see the parralells (sp?) between factual and calculable science and Biblical history the gig would be up.

I understand fully that those who reject faith in God will not see things my way. That's fine. No criticism here. I simply wanted to discuss it. Who knows, maybe it'll help someone.

I am not commenting on the worth of Christian faith, just the subset of it that connects to UFOs. Despite my mystic outlook and my use of my Intuition as well as my Intellect, I do find Science and logic to be useful tools for getting to certain kinds of truth.

None of my comments in the Thread I referenced have much to do with the core of the Christian faith, just some of the details. We look at every possible angle when a new photo is presented, we dig into the background, all the recorded information about a UFO witness, and I am doing the same with the Bible.

hooligan13,

It is all about how you intrepret the stories really. Personally I see the creation story in a more symbolic light. Adam and Eve were the first Christians who come into existance in a world filled with other people. The touch of enlightment moment that changes them from what they were, average humans, into something better. I think the interp of the Tree of knowledge is wrong as well, it is knowledge that brings enlightenment. The tree of knowledge has a history to it that predates the Bible by a fair amount so it seems to be the basis for this Bible version.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 6/25/05 by Alexander Tau]

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
You state that it is Satan and demons who are aliens/ufos, is that correct?

I say that it is a possibility that what people who claim to see aliens are actually seeing are demons presenting themselves in the guise of aliens. Because some people believe in aliens/UFOs.

If people believe there are aliens, then on that day when the church is raptured, and many people vanish w/out a trace, the Anti-christ will tell everyone they were snatched by aliens/UFOs.

At that time, it will seem to make perfect sense to unbelivers.

You state that it is Satan and demons who will snatch people and make them disappear into the air/sky, is that correct?

I didn't say that.

You state that Revelation says it is the believers who will be raptured, is that correct?

That is what the scriptures say. Believers in Christ.










[edit on 6/25/05 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
It is all about how you intrepret the stories really. Personally I see the creation story in a more symbolic light. Adam and Eve were the first Christians who come into existance in a world filled with other people. The touch of enlightment moment that changes them from what they were, average humans, into something better. I think the interp of the Tree of knowledge is wrong as well, it is knowledge that brings enlightenment. The tree of knowledge has a history to it that predates the Bible by a fair amount so it seems to be the basis for this Bible version.

Acutally, Adam & Eve were not Christians. They were not even Israelis. That came later. Christians weren't in existence until the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, hence the name Christian.

Acutally, Adam & Eve were not Christians. They were not even Israelis. That came later. Christians weren't in existence until the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, hence the name Christian

I am aware that is the normal version, I was speaking of a different way of looking at the Bible as a whole. A much less literal view that do not contain the contradictions and moral pitfalls of past versions based on literal readings of something that is meant to be felt as well as heard.

But that does not have anything to do with UFOs.


A.T
(-)

The basis for this theory can be found in both the new and old testaments. In the old, there are numerous accounts of angels communicating with man. The new discusses at length the spiritual warfare all around us and sometimes within each of us. The Apostle Paul talks at length of spiritual warfare and how to combat it. It's very interesting. It's also funny how fundamentalist Christians (at least among my fellow southern Baptists) refuse to discuss such spiritual things as the speaking in tongues - which is the HOly Spirit literally taken a person over to speak through. I wonder why that is?

Originally posted by EastCoastKidI say that it is a possibility that what people who claim to see aliens are actually seeing are demons presenting themselves in the guise of aliens. Because some people believe in aliens/UFOs.

To understand better what you are now trying to say, I would have to remove your original position that Satan and demons are the aliens who will be doing the snatching, because you did in fact state that it would be satan and demons who will do the snatching in the guise of aliens.

I say aliens, or UFO's we see are actually angels or demons...

the aliens snatching all those people would be an excellent excuse to explain away the rapture.

And if satan and demons are the ones who will be doing the snatching, or carrying out the rapture, then it would stand to reason from your premise that the believers in the rapture actually believed in Satan not Jesus.