Israel apologizes to U.S. over sale of technology to china

yea i meant that they stopped selling them U.S technology

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ch1466 the pictures you posted are PS. very good but you can tell differences.
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No they are NOT 'Photoshopped'. They are two discrete airframe designs. Sharing similar configuration within an almost exact (we are talking down to the foot of dimension) moldline geometry and thus making similar (mission performance) tradeoffs as a result.

The Lavi was too small to be a ranged interdictor/attack platform as advertised. We all knew it was. It could ONLY be a fighter along the lines of an F-5E/F-20. _That_ is 'officially' why Congress stopped it's development as an F-16 competitor.

The J-10 _is_ the Lavi. Either because the Israeli's are proving the stereotype of what it is 'To Be Jewed' (You will pay for me to screw you over and if you don't, I will sell what you gave away free so that someone else can...).

Or because their U.S. intel handlers /told them/ to allow IAI to give away the goods. Knowing that this fighter is still the same hunk of junk that it always was over any kind of radius. And realizing that the Chicoms would buy into the myth of 'superior Western design improved by Israeli' without looking at their own operational considerations first in deciding whether the individual engineering elements (composites, avionics etc.) were worth it, 'as a total package', given their own peculiar needs.

Which, ironically, is for a MULTIROLE fighter that can cover vast distances at consistently high speed and/or with a payload of PGM that can make up for the extended sortie intervals (maybe .5 per day instead of 1.5). An A-12 or an F/A-22, not a pint-fighter.

There is no doubt that the J-10's AL-31FN is going to SFC suck like a pro at an autoparts convention. And yet (assuming that the online lists for _dimension_ are in fact accurate) the internal volumetric for additional fuel is _just not there_. And thus the 5,000lbs internal fuel (listed for the Lavi) is too small to be useful.

The effect being like that of a Saturn V fed by a lawnmower gas tank.

'Air Superiority', on it's own, is meaningless if it doesn't extend over the other guy's half of the court. And where all radius -extension- comes from external tanks that compromise both offensive A2G and BVR+SEAD weapons loads, the J-10 has no functional role. And never will, for a 2nd rate theater power looking to go regional.

That is what I was trying to point out. Not that the Israeli's aren't a bunch of thugs stealing land that hasn't been their's in two millenium and 'protecting' it by selling technology they begged from others.

But that (deliberately or as a side benefit to shysterism) what they gave the PRC in the Lavi techbase is WORTHLESS to the Chicom operational need.

At least as a near direct copy.


KPl.

Please this is PS.





i gave my reasons before

the first thing they did wrong was put PLA signs and the wings. PLA never have them on the wings.

the cockpit is to big. it should only reach half-way to the carnards.

the carnards are swept back. wheres the j-10s is straight.

heres some pics of the J-10..

you can notice there aqre no markings on the wing.

www.aeronautics.ru...

www.aeronautics.ru...

www.aeronautics.ru...

www.aeronautics.ru...

www.aeronautics.ru...

heres a good link

Max. total dry thrust

J-10
79.43 kN

LAVI
55.6 kN

Max total augmented thrust

J-10
122.6 kN

LAVI
82.7 kN

internal fuel

J-10
4,500 kg

LAVI
2,624 kg

It depends on what version of the J-10 you see, some have swept back canards and the cockpit does stop a little over half way across the canards.

Oh and one more thing, “Soviet Power Supreme” died out 15 years ago man.


[edit on 1-7-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
It depends on what version of the J-10 you see, some have swept back canards and the cockpit does stop a little over half way across the canards.

Oh and one more thing, “Soviet Power Supreme” died out 15 years ago man.


[edit on 1-7-2005 by WestPoint23]

the pictures you seen then are PS. the J-10 doesn't have variations in their designs

The government plans to allow Washington to supervise its overseas weapon exports in a bid to smooth over tensions

Security chiefs had agreed to the regulations after the U.S. government “closed the taps of sensitive and essential cooperation on Israel” in the past few months, a senior Israeli defense ministry source said.Washington, a long-time partner to Israel in arms and munitions sales, had in recent weeks imposed sanctions on the Jewish state after finding out it had sold Harpy Killer drones to China by freezing some development projects and delivery of equipment.

Israel will next week submit a letter of apology to the U.S. regarding the affair, officials said, while the United States will arrange supervision on sales of weapons and advanced technology overseas, which it sees as harmful to American national security. The United States fears China is gaining more power and arms and could try to upgrade its military strength to settle territorial disputes or even threaten Taiwan, which seeks independence. Washington had demanded Israel confirm all its weapons sales with it ahead of time. Israeli defense officials say the U.S. government's demand to have Israel confirm all its weapons exports with Washington could end up generating financial losses."This is an unprecedented demand," a senior security source told Yedioth. "This way, the caliber of Israel's weapons industry cannot function."Another security source said the U.S. regulations are likely to hinder large weapons deals on the agenda with other countries, mainly in Asia."No country will want a third nation to know every detail about its weapons, especially not formally," the source said.

full ..........

Good; nice development ...but too little too late ???

[edit on 14-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

U.S. Defense Department Spokesman says ‘We continue also to raise concerns with our allies, our friends and partners and look for them to take responsible approaches to arms sales to China’

The U.S. has raised concerns with Israel about its sales and transfer of military equipment and technology to China, a Pentagon spokesman said Monday.

The spokesman declined to comment on the specifics of an Israeli report that Washington is demanding that Israel provide details of
more than 60 percent of recent deals with China and its arms export trade in general.

“This is certainly an issue that is being discussed between the U.S. and Israel, and we have made our concerns about the sale and transfer of defense equipment and technology to China known to Israel,” Bryan Whitman, a spokesman for the U.S. Defense Department said.

US demand's

The United States is demanding the dismissal of four senior defense ministry officials over weapons sales to China.

Ynet has learned the officials are Defense Ministry Director General Amos Yaron, head of the ministry’s New York-based procurement division, Kuti Mor, Yossi Ben-Hanan, head of the department for security assistance and export, and Yehiel Horev, security officer for the ministry.

According to reports, the call is not part of Washington’s official solution to the deepening crisis between the two defense departments, but if they are not removed from their positions, the U.S. will refuse to participate in joint ventures.

full........

OMG.............this link is shocking.....after all that the US has done for Israel, read what the Israelis think : www.ynetnews.com...

Some Ally Israel is to the US. US spend 2-3 billion dollars to arm Israel to the teeth each year and they want another 2 billion. sad really