Pro-Suicide Websites- Should their be laws?

www.fairfieldweekly.com...:31398

This article is older but gives one of the best reviews of a growing trend on the internet. Pro-suicide sites are in larger numbers and expand way past the original ASH sites. Some countries are beginning to develope laws that would prohibit the advising of methods of suicide to individuals as well as restrict how counselors on suicide prevention sites can interact.

This is a tough balance between rights to speech and preventing individuals (especially very young ones) from being advised how to take their life and even being offered assistance in doing so. For some this may seem like the abortion arguement of pro-life vs pro-choice. Many members of pro-sucide sites do feel suicide is a right and choice that they have and that they should be able to discuss it publically with out fear of intervention and/or hospital commitment.

I understand this subject matter may not be comfortable to all and I attemptd to put it in a section of the site I thought was appropriate as it is a growing social problem that often is not addressed in the media. I am curious as to thoughts from members on this. Please keep in mind that I am not referring to those persons that have terminal illinesses as that is a whole separate matter. I am referring to the emotional/mental state of a human being. Thank you.

www.aph.gov.au...

The Australian gov't is one of the most vocal recently in watching then internet and looking to pass more strict laws. The problem is, can this really work on the internet?

Suicide has always been in my views an easy way out of life trials and confrontations.

As a strong believer of certain after life views I only say that if you kill yourself in this life without finishing your tasks and purpose you will come back to face the troubles three times worse.

Occurs is just my personal opinion.

The INTERNET is a window to many interesting things and amazing places, also is a window to many denigrating and silly sites.

When we have freedom of expression it means no only the right to express our minds in kind and helpful ways but also in nasty and dirty ways, and the INTERNET is the perfect places to hide from some of the nastiest things.

Yes I feel some regulations should be in place when it comes to sites like the one about suicide.

Now if you look at pornography is not much that it has been done about it in the INTERNET you still going to find it anyway.

I've never heard of sites like that before, although I've never really looked either. I personally feel that, if someone's going to take their own life, then they're going to do it (or at least try) whether everyone else allows it or not. You can't stop it without locking them up under suicide watch, and what kind of life would that be, especially for someone who hasn't done anything wrong?

I personally feel that assisted suicide should be legalized and massively regulated for terminally ill patients. If someone wishes to end their life, then they should be able to do so with a modicum of dignity and with the knowledge that it's being done by someone who knows what to do. I've heard too many stories of people who have blown off part of their face or turned themselves into vegetables because they didn't know what the hell they were doing.

The same applies to sites like this in my opinion. If someone is going to kill themselves, they're going to do it. They might as well be able to find out how to do it right to save others from having to take care of the vegetable they might become.

I read the articles.. thanx for the links '99. I don't really know what to say. I didn't even know sites like that existed. On one hand my gut instinct is to say prosuicide chatsites should be banned b/c of the kids who get lured into them. But then there's that 1st ammendment thing.. What a perplexing, terrible thing to ponder. People encouraging others' to end their lives. To me that is PURE EVIL. I believe that anyone who encourages another to kill themself will also be accountable for that in the next life. I see that as being an accomplice to murder.

What to do about it... what to do?

Interesting to point out that suicides is number 11th cause of death in America, I am very surprise that nothing much has been done about the internet promoting suicide sites.

Most people doesn't understand that this is a health problem, Suicidal behavior is complex. Some risk factors vary with age, gender, and ethnic group and may even change over time.

Suicides is a big problem in the US, this is a link to a graphic to understand better what is going on.

www.nimh.nih.gov...

Good choice of topic Memorialday, after doing some research I agree that something should be done to stop the internet from promoting suicide sites.

Suicide is generally illegal, so if these sites meet the threshold of posing a clear and present danger in inciting people to suicide, that might trump First Amendment issues and they could probably be controlled.

There are two kinds of people the articles discuss: rational adults and underage people, irrational. It's one thing for an adult to plan for their death b/c some kind of terminal illness or whatever, but we're talking about impressionable youths who could go either way.

Life is depressing for 99% of the world's population - and that's probably an understatement. What these kids don't realize is they (most likely) will get beyond whatever troubles are ailing them at the time and that it is not unusual to go through periods of sadness and hopelessness. I can't imagine the grief I would feel if some kid I loved (like my nieces) ever got onto one of those sites and took the bait. That would be devastating.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Suicide is generally illegal, so if these sites meet the threshold of posing a clear and present danger in inciting people to suicide, that might trump First Amendment issues and they could probably be controlled.

I was thinking about that, too. These articles she linked to were from Australia. I'd be interested to know what the laws are here in the US, state by state.

I know in Michigan suicide is illegal however rarely do police charge after an attempt. It is preferred to get the person help and locking them in jail does not give them that opportunity. I think most states have a law on the book but like with some laws, it is not pushed on the suicidal person that survives the attempt (certainly can't prosecute the one that succeeds now can you).

I have found the sites to be heavy in UK and American members. There are forums, chat rooms, newsgroups, hidden groups etc. The number of under 18 persons on these sites amazes me. You can't stop people from surfing the net and finding out how to build a bomb nor can you from written instructions on what combination of pills and how much works and where to get them. But when you have an emotional teenager that could go either way who engages in a conversation with someone that not not only convinces them it is ok to take your life but they will come and help you do it, then you have a real problem.

It is similar to sexual predators however some of these folks that offer to assist are looking to die too and want to go with a partner. America tends to shy away from the suicide topic however it is drawing much attention in law enforcement due to a disturbing suicide method known as suicide by cop. This is where a suicidal person invokes the police to shoot them.

At this point I think that attention by "internet cyber police" need to occur in suicide chat rooms similar to the monitoring they do in other type of chat rooms when looking for predators. It may not solve the problem yet but it needs to start somewhere. It is also important to note that often a huge warning sign to youth suicide is the obsession with self-injury such as cutting. It does not always mean that SI will lead toward an attempt but it is very common.

After researching world while I guess we are not on the top ten countries with high suicide rates, the highest three is,

1- Lituania with 42.0 per 100,000 people a year.

2- Russia with 37.4

3- Belarus with 35.0

It seems that, northern Europe is the most given to suicide than any other region in the world.

I wonder why.

www.aneki.com...

Originally posted by marg6043


It seems that, northern Europe is the most given to suicide than any other region in the world.

I wonder why.

www.aneki.com...

Cold, miserable weather, probly. That's how it is in Washington state. Land of the constant rainfall. I could never go back there to live.. sorry grandma.

These sites may indeed be against the laws in most countries and states but unfortunately, they do have one good side.
Since Suicide is against the law, along with "assisted" suicide, many people are caught in a catch 22 here. A few years back, my grandmother was diagnoised with terminal cancer. Due to her age, all the doctor's could do was to "ease her pain". Instead of being allowed to end her life with some kind of dignity (as she saw it), she was made to linger in pain, having to be spoon fed, wearing diapers and having others change them for her etc. She lost all her self respect and dignity and plead with her doctors to end her life. Due to the laws, this request was refused.
That is only one example where these types of sites could serve a useful purpose. I do believe that there needs to be some kind of constraints put into place to curtail use of these sites and the information within from being accessed by teens and those who have given up on life just due to the pressures of life.

I completely understand the issue of someone like your grandmother (who is terminally ill). For me, the jury's still out. I'm a Christian, so that complicates things for me.

As for kids... that is a WHOLE DIFFERENT matter. A 13 or 14 yr old can be thoroughly miserable one month and as elated and happy the next. They are going through so many changes through those years, it is a complete travesty to think that they might get caught up into one of those chat sites and egged on to do the deed, as the articles related. Those folks who are doing the encouraging are sick puppies, indeed.

ECK,
We are 100% in agreement. There has to be a way to secure these sites and their information to prevent access by minors. Unfortunately, with the web anyminity (however it is spelt!) I do not see how this could be done.

There really isn't any way to completely prevent minors from accessing these sites. If they want to, they'll find a way. I think more focus should be given to parents talking to their kids, trying to help them, than trying to force others to be nice to their kids. Same even with "rational" adults, terminally ill or otherwise.

These sites shouldn't have to be banned, or even regulated. People should take responsibility for their own actions or lack thereof. When I have kids, if they're utterly depressed and I don't have the time to find out what the hells wrong with them before they take their own life, that's where I screwed up. Not the people running the sites. If my best friend is going to kill himself because his girlfriend broke up with him, then I need to either step in and help him or let him sort it out on his own, one way or another. If he punches his own ticket then it's not a website's fault, it's not a gun maker's fault, and it's not a pharmaceutical company's fault. If it's anyone's fault but his own, then it's the fault of those who thought the rest of the world should take care of their problems.

That's very easy to say. It becomes a whole different matter when it actually happens to you (in your life). The thing about it is, often times these people (mostly kids) are feeling so desperate they're not gonna tell you what they're doing. If that was your kid, I'd betcha a month's paycheck you'd feel a helluva lot different.

If you read the articles memorialday1999 posted, you'd understand what kind of maliciuos, twisted voyeristic encouragement we're talking about. It's sadistic. Most kids in the range of 12-17 are so impressionable, it wouldn't take much prodding for them to kill themselves if they were severely depressed and without someone (family member or friend) to talk to.

What a horrible catch 22 we have here.

You're probably right on the money; thankfully I've never been in such a position. But I personally would much rather take the blame myself than pawn it off on someone else. I do that all the time even when there's no reason to.

While the articles are referring to some pretty sick and twisted stuff, my first question when a kid kills themselves is where were the parents? There's virtually always warning signs, it just depends on how well you know the person. And if you don't know your own kid well enough to see when something is off, then you might want to recheck your priorities.

I was a teenager once. I was often depressed and often thought of taking that last ride. Hell, I still have bad days when I want to do that. But people paid attention to me, they asked me what was wrong, they tried to cheer me up. They took the time out of their busy schedules to care, and to talk to me--even if it wasn't about what I was going through (which normally wasn't really anything anyways.)

This is just a facet of a general gripe of mine. We've turned into a society that hires electronic babysitters, such as the television and the internet. When something goes wrong with our children we blame the media. We blame Congress for letting stuff like this get somewhere our children can find it. We never blame ourselves for not teaching our children to talk to people about their problems, or to have enough pride to keep on fighting when the battle seems lost.

Sorry for the rant.

Originally posted by MCory1
Sorry for the rant.

No apologies necessary. I agree with you.

There are far too many parents out there that are simply AWOL. It's terrible.

I don't think the website can be actually blamed similar to gun makers. However, similar to sexual predators they should be monitored for those folks that are lurking and searching for the right kid to harm. You can be the best parent in the world but you cannot always see the warning signs. And sometimes parents with all the best intentions may not be educated enough in these areas to recognize the signs.

Parenting has become very complicated and I think parents could use some help, not to blame and sue people/sites but to learn to help their kids and with help in monitoring these sites. You can buy all the parental blockers you want but lets face it, kids today have better computer skills then most adults.

If we take the attitude that no outside source is responsible then the same would apply to schools. If your kid fails, it must be the kid and the parent and not the school. Well we all know there are some bad schools out there and some really bad teachers. I think responsiblity in providing the best and safest things to kids is a shared responsibility.

A predator is a predator regardless if sexual or suicidal or homicidal and we can all use help in bringing these folks to justice. My point with these sites is that they are not well know to the public or LE thus are not being monitored well as of yet. I hope that the public will soon begin to see that there is a whole community out there that your kids may be playing in. I am sure most parents would have never imagined a website/group that promotes their childs death.