Why do we Allow a Tyrant Like Mugabe to Exist?

Woah there, cowboy; not so fast!

I agree with what you say in that he has destroyed the country and is hurting the people, but this is better than the English system that they had, right? The fact that it is a black regime is the important thing. The fact that the white owners of the farms were dirven off or killed and that the farms are now in the hands of the indigenous people (who happen to be friends of the rulers) is more important than feeding families.

Even without oil, the West would be accused of intervening in the affairs of a sovereign nation that is attacking nobody. It would be said that we were only looking for a base site from which to rob Africa of her lion skins and ivory.

I don't get it. You all want us to topple the dictatorship in Zimbabwe because they made a couple hundred thousand people homeless. Yet, what Saddam did to his people during his reign of terror was FAR worse. We get crap for toppling Saddam just because there is oil there

Should we only promote regime change in countries that don't have valuable natural resources? And screw those that do? Would that make all you liberals happy then?

Originally posted by Otts.

For sure I agree with you but why even trade with them at all. It seems to me that is the cause. Stop that, and you stop them. Ofcourse that won't stop the strong from trying to take out the weak or enslaving them, or whatever, but at least the circle of violence doesn't start, end or contain us. Then we would be in a position to actually help, without the added problems of politics and economics attached. Just one group of humans helping another.

Originally posted by Passer By
How does the world allow something like this? Easy.

It really isn't anyones business in how another country is run. By aiding in one side of violence, no matter how justified it seems, only perpetuates the violence.

I disagree. If the world had taken that position in 1941 where would we be today?

To me this shows the hypocritical nature of Blair and Bush , they want the world to be Democratic, but Zimbabwe is not on their list. Perhaps it is the oil that matters more than Human lives.

To answer the Bulldog's question:

Because Robert Mugabe is benefitting the Crown (the City of London bankers and their stockholders). He's a part of the problem, not the solution to the on-going crisis of his government.

Remember Zimbabwe was once a part of Cecil Rhodes' vast southern African empire and it was formerly known as Rhodesia. In other words, Zimbabwe is still owned, "under-the-table", by London bankers and stockholders lock, stock and barrel.

Ok but what do they gain by Mugabwe trashing his own Country and making everybody poor exept his cronies?

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Exposing these terrible actions of Mugabe, and not papering over it like the US did for Saddam or the Shah of Iran, it at least gets world public opinion against them. This helps influence nations from doing business with these dispicable regimes.

They make seek glory, but they should be treated as the shame of a continent and the world.

These dictators should be spit on by the upstanding nations of the world.

They should be treated with contempt, like the roaches that crawl out of cracks and crevices.

Anyone supporting them should be considered criminals.

Worse treatment should be given the leaders in Sudan where people were not only burned from their homes but raped and executed as well.

Bad governments are the biggest threat to and could destroy the world economy.

I realize that sometimes harsh treatments may be handed down by governments for legimate reasons. China has implemented heavy burdens on people for having more than one child, but there is a very rational reason for it, and it is shared across the board. Eventually when there is no more oil, harsh measures may become necessary.

In the cases of these dictators it is simply to surround themselves with luxury, power and self-agrandisement at the expense of others. They have no ideals and no vision for the people they dominate instead of governing.

Is it just me or are these guys just sort of losers?
Are you really much of a human being if you have no aspirations or inspirations?
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Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Ok but what do they gain by Mugabwe trashing his own Country and making everybody poor exept his cronies?

Diamonds. Diamond mining is a big business in southern Africa (and worldwide), a boon to the holders of national resources (Mugabe, etc.) which benefit DeBeers Group, other major diamond companies and their respective stockholders in London, Europe and worldwide.

Zimbabwe/Mugabe diamond mining connection to the Congo Republic's woes

Mugabe's costly Congo venture

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Robert Mugabe is one of the worst Dictators since Idi Amin, he has destroyed his Country and left his people in poverty while driving round in Rolls Royce cars and living like a millionaire. Giving aid to Africa must be stopped till tyrants like him are removed.

Cause it's Africa and Americans don't give a # plain and simple. If God would put a trillion galleons of oil under their soil then we would.

sorry i meant Barrels, Galleons wouldn't be enough.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by DiRtYDeViL]

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Robert Mugabe is one of the worst Dictators since Idi Amin, he has destroyed his Country and left his people in poverty while driving round in Rolls Royce cars and living like a millionaire. Giving aid to Africa must be stopped till tyrants like him are removed.

Cause it's Africa and Americans don't give a # plain and simple. If God would put a trillion galleons of oil under their soil then we would.

sorry i meant Barrels, Galleons wouldn't be enough.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by DiRtYDeViL]

Well, how would you explain Bob Geldof's praising of President George W. Bush on the issue of Africa?

LIVE 8 organiser Bob Geldof claimed yesterday that George Bush had done more for Africa than any other US president.

Geldof said he had recently defended Bush on the issue in France. "They refuse to accept, because of their political ideology, that he has actually done more than any American president for Africa," he told Time magazine. "But it's empirically so."

He and Bono, of U2, have teamed up to recreate 1985's Live Aid by organising a string of free concerts around the world on 2 July. Geldof stressed that it was a political, not a cultural event.

Source

There are many Americans of all color contributing themselves to improving the social and economic conditions of Africa and there are many private American groups, large or small, participating as well, financially, medicinally, spiritually and culturally. I personally knew several African people, some that I've befriended with, they came to America to get away from all the woes and killings in the continent to seek better life and opportunities. Some did went back to their native countries but always came back to the US. They have always hope that the whole of Africa would turn around and improve enormously someday.

Seem that you are wearing your anti-American bias, with a prejudicial outlook, on your sleeve very proudly.

It just goes to show how people have decided that Zimbabwe because it doesn't have oil can be ignored. That says a lot to me, it just means your selfish and don't care about Humanity. If you cant stand up to people who make life miserable for their population without thinking how it benefits you, i think Hell might welcome you.

A euphemism for violent forced removals in which over a million Zimbabweans have been left
homeless. Their lives and livelihoods shattered in the middle of a freezing cold winter.

PS: Any of you "Zimbabwean experts" actually ever been there?
I just got back from Zimbabwe yesterday and the [eople there are dying by the thousands.

I personally saw a mother crying over the body of her two year old after this baby was crushed to to death.

Soldiers refused to let her get her baby out of a house that was being demolished by Mugabe's bulldozers.

That picture will remain burnt in my mind forever yet the world does nothing about this mad man called Mugabe because there is no oil!

[edit on 13-7-2005 by Artificium]

Originally posted by Passer By
How does the world allow something like this? Easy.

It really isn't anyones business in how another country is run. By aiding in one side of violence, no matter how justified it seems, only perpetuates the violence.

Tell that to the Cambodians. Or the Rwandans. Or the Chileans. Or the Bosnians who lost their brothers, fathers, sons and grandfathers at Srebrenica.

Since we decided to set up the Nuremberg Tribunal the world has had a moral obligation to police foreign nations and end dictatorships. Either you remove all the dictators or you remove none.

In his way Mugabe is worse than the Taleban, Afghanistan was already in the stone age when they took over, Mugabe has driven Zimbabwe to its knees and is now kicking it in the arse for being poor.

He's the worst kind of paranoid ideologue, just like Pol Pot, nothing is his fault, everything is the fault of "enemies" and "traitors" and "economic saboteurs", his policies have failed because of outside influences, not because of their intrinsic flaws.

But that's okay, seeing as the neo-colonialists of the Commonwealth have given him the boot that bastion of human rights China is riding to his rescue.

By Political Bureau

Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka has made a four-hour visit to Zimbabwe for talks with President Robert Mugabe and his deputy that she said would help the South African government to "synchronise" its policies with Harare.

Making her first official trip to Zimbabwe since her appointment three weeks ago by President Thabo Mbeki, Mlambo-Ngcuka said on Tuesday she had held "longer" talks with her Zimbabwean counterpart, Joyce Mujuru.

"I came to consult my colleague so that we can synchronise some of the things we would like to do," she said without elaborating...

www.iol.co.za...

Is South Africa next for a Mugabe style regime?

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Giving aid to Africa must be stopped till tyrants like him are removed.

- What kind of logic is it that would have the 53 countries of Africa denied the aid they so desparately need just because of one or two 'Mugabes'?

Especially considering that a lot of their debt problem stems from the 'strong men' whos' corruption 'we' in the west couldn't have cared less about so long as they played on 'our side' of the cold war power games and signed their nations resources to us at a discount.

The answer to topic´s question is: Because you allow a Tyrant like Bush exist
No idea of troubling your heads with problems in Africa when your own country is in deep #.
-aape

Mugabe exists because at the end of the day Zimbabwae is worthless to the West, a former colony that has been mismaged for almost a decade, moving from one of Africa's most prosperous nations to a shambles.

It has no resources, no strategic value. It is just another poorly managed African nation. The only reason Mugabe gets more attention than the string of abysmal leaders in the Congo is the fact that he upsets white former colonials, ex pat Brits are affected by him, and that upsets the media.

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I wonder if people around the globe quit buying diamonds, of Zimbabwe is one of the world's suppliers, if that would be an effective way to rid than nation of Mugabe?

I bet you if the various diamond cartels couldn't sell as many diamonds and the price started slumping if you would see some sudden effective action to dump this tinhorn tyrrant.

If DeBeers and the Russians are losing money because of him, i bet he would get taken in the very shortest order. Dead or Alive but absolutely out.
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Zimbabwe's diamond output for 2005 is projected to be about 200,000 carats compared to the millions of carats that South Africa and Namibia produces.

But, it may be a start to putting pressure on Zimbabwe where it hurts.
All diamonds by law must have a laser marking on it to disclose it's origins so that conflict diamonds are not illegaly sold.

You have the right to ask a jeweller the origin of a diamond before purchasing and if they tell you that the diamond is from Zimbabwe simply ask for a ring or a item that contains diamonds not mined in Zimbabwe.