UK Armed Forces

Originally posted by Bulldog 52

Sorry I'm neither, but if i was having to face expensive choices i would buy the American plane as its had more thought put into it. They are harder to shoot down because of inbuilt stealth that makes the airplane virtually invisible. The Euro fighter might be the best Europe can do , but its still behind the times. Europe is a waste of space ever thing it does costs a fortune and is still years behind America in aircraft technology.

Have you any idea how much of your beloved US planes rely on European tech????? Everything from their ejector seats to their flight control systems is european. Heck, large sections of the JSF are being built here in the UK.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
if i was having to face expensive choices i would buy the American plane as its had more thought put into it.

- ......and you know that "its had more thought put into it", how exactly?

......and how would you get any public acceptance for buying a handfull of F22's at their staggering cost?
Particularly given the lack of public enthusiasm for the cheaper Typhoon?

They are harder to shoot down because of inbuilt stealth that makes the airplane virtually invisible.

- Yeah but this comment only works when comparing the Typhoon to the F22.
Against any other fighter in the world the Typhoon is superior......thanks in part to it's own "inbuilt stealth" (and 'stealth' is a lot more than just the outside shape of the plane).

When are we going to fight the USAF then Bulldog?

Typhoon is also markedly cheaper than F22 (and cheaper to the economies of all the participating countries when all the wider economic effects of there being no Typhoon are taken account of)

The Euro fighter might be the best Europe can do , but its still behind the times.

- Typhoon is cutting edge design for the requirement.
It was a year or two earlier cutting edge compared to the F22. That is all.

Europe is a waste of space ever thing it does costs a fortune and is still years behind America in aircraft technology.

- Jayzuss here comes the anti-European propaganda.

You'll find F22 costs have rocketed (to the point where even the USAF is slashing their order).
If you knew anyone who had anything to do with the US aero industry you'd know that your caricature is as inaccurate as it is just absurd.
The US industry has plenty of its' own problems with cost, corruption and delay, actually.

Perhaps if you had a little bit of a clue about the delays imposed on the Typhoon program by the govs involved (inc the UK gov) you might see that the price tag of Typhoon is not a reflection of what European industry could have done but rather one that reflects the political interference.

Typhoon is not "years behind" in capability anyway, actually......
.....and had the program not been slowed down it would actually have been years ahead.

Unless you foresee the European Typhoon buyers fighting F22's sometime soon I'd love to hear why you imagine we 'need' to buy the American F22?

......and how many do you imagine the public going for at the price they reckon F22 goes for, hmmm?



[edit on 20-6-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I thought dissent was the highest form of patriotism?

Theres a diffrence beteween being dissent and being ignorant to your own countries never mind your own continents inventions.

The EF is good aircraft but its not better looking than the F/A-22

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The EF is good aircraft but its not better looking than the F/A-22

The EF is a classic type of craft, not one of these stealth 1st things.
The F-22 IMO is quite ugly, the YF-23 looks nicer.

Originally posted by devilwasp
.
The F-22 IMO is quite ugly, the YF-23 looks nicer.

how dare u devilwasp, calling the F-22 ugly. well dats yer view, to me i believe its a beautiful aircraft that kicks a$$. and those who gets there a$$ kicked wouldnt know until its too late.

Originally posted by deltaboy

how dare u devilwasp, calling the F-22 ugly. well dats yer view, to me i believe its a beautiful aircraft that kicks a$$. and those who gets there a$$ kicked wouldnt know until its too late.

It is, luckily I wont have to deal with getting my ass kicked off it unless the raptors new job is sinking merchant navy shiping..

deltaboy don't worry the poor basted floating down to earth in his parachute will get to marvel at the Raptors beauty when he sees what hit him.

And DW you’re a Navy man?

Got to agree with DW here.

The F22 is a stumpy ugly looking thing; it looks likes it's proportions are all wrong, to my eye anyways.

The YF23 was a futuristic looking beaut, by far the looker of the 2.

The Typhoon just looks functional and hard as nails. Austere beauty IMO.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
And DW you’re a Navy man?

Got accepted to a naval colledge, its civie like but should help me get into the RN.

In keeping with the ongoing tradition in this thread of being off-topic...........The Eurofighter is a beautiful aircraft, which says alot coming from a die hard F-22 fan/American.

However, I feel it bears pointing out that Europes new super fighter looks alot like, I mean ALOT like the circa 1980 F-16XL. It's like someone got out the old general dynamics blueprints, blew off the dust, tweaked the airframe slightly, added neat looking canards, and jammed it full of modern avionics.







Anyone else see some real similarities here? Not that they are exactly alike, but as far as styling goes.

The Euro Fighter is a classic beauty, I love the design. When the F-16 retires from service and people start to miss the old bird then they can always squint a little when a Euro Fighter flies over head, ahh just like the good ole days.

That last comment was a joke.

The F-22 IMO is quite ugly, the YF-23 looks nicer.

The F-22 is the sexiest jet out there, while the YF-23 is one of the ugliest, ever.

It's quite sad if you think that.

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567
The F-22 is the sexiest jet out there, while the YF-23 is one of the ugliest, ever.

It's quite sad if you think that.

Heretic! Burn em!
**Looks for flame thrower**

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by WestPoint23
And DW you’re a Navy man?

Got accepted to a naval colledge, its civie like but should help me get into the RN.

which part of the RN are u goin into, subs, piloting, manning surface ships, etc?

I absolutely love the look of the F-16XL and was very disappointed when it wasn't selected for production, I think its far better looking than the original F-16.

As for similarities with the Typhoon, I don't think there is even one thing that looks the same, but there ya go. I know you're not trying to say the Tiffie is a copy, only that it reminds you of the XL, but I honestly can't see it. You know, there was a plane that I thought looked very much like the XL but I've forgotten what it was! Thats really bugging me now


GOT IT! It was the McDonnell Douglas AST supersonic airliner design, virtually the same wing and planform only bigger (obviously).

[edit on 21-6-2005 by waynos]

the history of the eurofighter design is well documented and has very lttle to do with any version of the f16.

www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk...

Why could they not have built some of those instead (we would have had them over 10 years ago now). I also like the twin angled tailplanes on the p.110 and ACA designs. Who says we know nothing about stealth.

Originally posted by paperplane_uk
the history of the eurofighter design is well documented and has very lttle to do with any version of the f16.

www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk...

Why could they not have built some of those instead (we would have had them over 10 years ago now). I also like the twin angled tailplanes on the p.110 and ACA designs. Who says we know nothing about stealth.

for 'very little' read as 'nothing'.

Actually I have quite a lot of pre-Typhoon pictures if anyone is interested? Maybe I'll post them in a new thread. The one I have lost, if anyone can supply me with it, is the P.120 which was the final UK only attempt and was basically a Typhoon with a rounded 'F-16-esque' air intake?

Since the search for a 'Jaguar-Harrier replacement' was first launched by the MoD there have been an amazing number of different designs (so much for it not having had much thought put into it Bulldog 52)

I also have designs for the losing competitors from Hawker Siddeley (you wanna see what an F-16 clone really looks like?) and Dornier (or an F-18 copy even?)

Originally posted by waynos
The one I have lost, if anyone can supply me with it, is the P.120 which was the final UK only attempt and was basically a Typhoon with a rounded 'F-16-esque' air intake?

- I got P.110 and EAP (ZF534) but nothing on the P.120 (Putnam's 'The British Fighter'; an excellent resource......and great companion to the 'The British Bomber. ).

If you can scan and post I'd be interested Waynos (I am scanner-less, I'm afraid).

As for ridiculous comments about "not much thought put into" Typhoon well, what can you say? Ignorance at work and all that......it just goes to show a little (and we're obviously talking very little) knowledge can be a very dangerous thing!
I'd love to introduce Bulldog to the BAe 'people I know' and hear that comment repeated to them!

I think they'd extract a little return on the 10yrs + of blood and sweat they expended on the project(s) that led up to and including Typhoon!

Also whilst I can see a very general outline in the F16XL I do agree that to my eyes anyways the Typhoon really looks nothing much like it.


[edit on 21-6-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Will the people at BAE systems be giving money to UK troops to help them buy the kit they need to fight in? Thats what British soldiers are having to face nowadays , they spend their own money on boots etc just to be effective. Mod sucks, full of old paper pushers on good pensions, this Country is full of people like them who make their own nest and deprive the person who puts his or her life on the line.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Will the people at BAE systems be giving money to UK troops to help them buy the kit they need to fight in? Thats what British soldiers are having to face nowadays , they spend their own money on boots etc just to be effective. Mod sucks, full of old paper pushers on good pensions, this Country is full of people like them who make their own nest and deprive the person who puts his or her life on the line.

The MOD is to blame?
Try the people running the budget for the country..
The MOD is the army, navy, airforce and several other MOD departments and orginisations.
In effect you just said the british armed forces suck.
And as I have said, you cant be british, I know of no briton who would say such a thing about his own country, except a traitor.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]