Congress ready to resurrect Draft!!..

Originally posted by devilwasp
A draft would not go down well, it could well cause the country to go into chaos. And a draft would lower the effectiveness of the armed services dramatically, forced to fight or volounteer to fight?

The military would be spending more time court marshaling draftees disobeying orders and looking for draft dodgees than they would be fighting.
A draft would be a huge waste of time, money, and the military's patience.

Well, it seems to me that there are 2 ways to get people to sign up. One is the draft, but Bush says he is aginst the draft. The other way is to make people want to join. I remember my Grandpa going on and on about how the military was such a wonderful thing, despite WWII. I keep remembering him saying over and over...."It was a guarantee that I would always have clothes on my back, shoes on my feet, and food to eat."

With the economy the way it is, I cant help but wonder......

If someone were to attack my family, my friends, my country, or to harm others in a way that i am completely against, i will lay my life down to defend that in a second without thought.

So you want to wait until enemy soldiers invade our country come to your home and kill your filmily to fight? Ok nice thinning, “I don't have to worry about anything unless I see an invading army outside my door”.

Well, it seems to me that there are 2 ways to get people to sign up. One is the draft, but Bush says he is aginst the draft. The other way is to make people want to join. I remember my Grandpa going on and on about how the military was such a wonderful thing, despite WWII.

Maybe your grandpa should tell you about the 66% of military personnel who were draftees in WWII. Or maybe he should tell you about the propaganda and recruiting films the military made to have people hate the Germans because most Americans did not want to fight them.

Some people will just not put their necks in danger, they will always try to reason out of doing their duty. Heck it took 3000+ Americans dead for us to enter WWII, it took 3000+ Americans dead for us to engage the terrorist. Is this how we want to continue? We don't have to do anything until 3000 or more Americans die?

So you want to wait until enemy soldiers invade our country come to your home and kill your filmily to fight? Ok nice thinning, “I don't have to worry about anything unless I see an invading army outside my door”.

Sorry, I guess i have to be utterely and completely specific as possible, if anyone were to threaten/attack any of the afforementioned groups. The specifics aren't really the issue, the fact is i am willing to die to defend those things unlike GradyPhilpott suggested.

(Sarcasm) And yes, im quite sure the only way i know im being threatened/attacked is when the invading army is outside my home, im sure there wont be any other type of warning or any signs whatsoever so that i can defend the the people/ideals i view as important.

I do agree that you cant always wait to be attacked, but that doesn't mean that you can always be on the offensive.

1) Iraq did not attack us in any way shape or form

2) By all accounts, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11

3) Billions and Billions are being spent in the war with Iraq

4) Troops are dying daily in this War with Iraq

5) We need more troops to fight the coorect war on terrorism..against those terrorists who planned 9/11 and are planning against us right now. Not Iraq.

My question is why are we using our resources in Iraq, when we still have..

1) Usama BL still plotting against us somewhere. Where is this guy.
2) Open Borders which let pretty much any body in that wants to.
3) Uninspectable cargo ports/shipping containers.
4) Huge federal Debt to support this war
5) Plans to reinstitute the draft because we are running out of soldiers

Do ya think the current policies and priorities are a little mis-guided?

Maybe your grandpa should tell you about the 66% of military personnel who were draftees in WWII. Or maybe he should tell you about the propaganda and recruiting films the military made to have people hate the Germans because most Americans did not want to fight them.

My Grandpa.....God rest his soul......joined the army because it guaranteed food, and clothing for him and his family. Not to mention a "free education". The reason I brought this up was because of the economy. It is hanging on by a thread. If you put a bunch of people with mouths to feed out of work, and the job market is such they cant find a job, they can either starve or join up.

To get to the point, Bush has a decision to make. An army or an economy, because he cant have both. The draft is out of the question. I am sure he knows that would not only be the end to his presidency, but the begining of a civil war.

[edit on 17-6-2005 by mrsdudara]

Sorry, I guess i have to be utterely and completely specific as possible, if anyone were to threaten/attack any of the afforementioned groups. The specifics aren't really the issue, the fact is i am willing to die to defend those things unlike GradyPhilpott suggested

.

You don't think people willing to die to destroy our way of life pose a threat to you? You don't think counties which support/harbor people like that are a threat?
You have some high standard of threat, we cant just sit back and wait to be attacked before we act and we cant let the threat mature to the point where its too late to do anything about it.

If there is a draft I would assume it would be used to fill mostly non-combat positions as the military shifts its volunteer force to combat roles. This is what we have been doing with civilian contractors.

This could also be a selling point for draft initiation. I mean, if they guarantee that all draftees are going to do is cook powdered eggs and re-fuel Apaches, it makes it much easier to swallow. Unfortunately, troops in non-combat positions frequently end up in firefights. Remember those young women captured early in the war?

As for the person some pages back who thought the young Americans he saw were fat & soft: Perhaps fat & soft is better than bloodthirsty simpleton.

First of all, thousands dead on 9/11 pales in comparision to the over 115,000 Iraqi civilians killed since our invasion of their home country, who had nothing to do with 9/11; they were just unlucky about living on huge oil fields. Next, every war in American history has been a sham:

1) The American Revolution was based on grossely exxaggerated propaganda. The British actually treated us very well. The event that the propaganda was madly based on had only 6 people killed. And, we attacked the British troops first with rocks and ice : www.usfca.edu... . It wasn't a massacre at all.

2) The war of 1812 happened after a communications failure.

3) The Civil War was obviously our fault.

4) The Spanish-American war was based on the idea that the Spanish sunk an American ship for no reason. It later turned out that out that the ship, the Maine, was sunk by a malfunction in the ship. www.americaslibrary.gov... After the war, we didn't have to annex their territories either. We could have let them all become independent.

5) World War I was based on Germany sinking American cruise-liners with submarines. Guess what? We were shipping arms (bombs, etc.) to Britain on those cruise-liners. Germany had every right to attack those and we weren't remaining neutral. We were siding with Britain then because of economic interests (Before war we were neutral, 50% exports to britain 50% to Germany aka same to each country, during war Britain --> blockaded Germany and then the ratios were cut to mostly Britain and very little to Germany. Then we started becoming friends with Britain. We fought World War I on ECONOMIC INTERESTS. MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WERE DRAFTED AND DIED FOR DOLLARS. People trying to spread the truth were locked up by a government agency created then called the Committee on Public Information (CPI) whose purpose was to censor the press and squash protests.

6) Citizen interference and government sponsered propaganda led to American involvement (though not by military troops) in the Spanish American War. Which did not threaten us. But our government supported it anyways with money and propaganda.

7) We could have remained neutral in WWII. Going to war with Japan did not mean we had to go to war with Germany. And, it wasn't a moral thing either because we didn't know about the concentration camps then. And, they didn't exist then either. Also, FDR had been planning to get America involved in WWII for over 10 years. He started by forcing the Japanese to engage us by denying them oil then using that as an excuse to get involved in Europe. We didn't even fight the Japanese until years later. www.amconmag.com...

8) After WWII, it was decided that the fate of Korea would be decided by an election by the Korean people. The election would be held by the U.N. After the communist candidate won the election (through U.S assassinations and sabotage), the U.S declared the U.N election invalid and then blamed the war on Koreans attacking U.S troops in South Korea.

9) The event that the president used as justification for hte Vietnam War, the Gulf of Tonkin in reality never happened. It was said that a U.S. ship were just observing fighting in Vietnam and Vietnameze gunboats fired on the U.S. ship. We later learned, after the war of course, that the U.S. ship was not just observing but firing on Vietnameze positions and at the Vietnameze gunboats. The Vietnameze, not wanting a conflict with the U.S.A, didn't even fire back with their gunboats as self defense. President Johnon's estate grew by over 6,800% during this war.

10) We gave Iraq permission to invade Kuwait before Desert Storm. www.whatreallyhappened.com...

11) We had navy seals in Afghanistan on either september 9th or 13th, one of the two( We had a navy seals commando guy come into our school to give a propaganda presentation of the war on terror with us in 8th grade. im in 11th grade now. i think he said stuff he shouldnt have said) Either way, not enough time for Afghanistan to repond to our demands that they give us OBL. Our war was very premature. BTW We now have a very nice oil pipeline there!

12) There is very strong evidence of the Iraq War being a huge sham now, even only after 2 or 3 years and while we are still at war! Stuff like this didn't even come out for a decade accross the public mainstream after Vietnam! Who only knows what we'll find out a decade from now. Downing street memo: www.downingstreetmemo.com...

There you have it! America's Wars: A complete sham!

[edit on 6/17/05 by RedDragon]

I don't think we will need a draft. Reading all post of the warrior keyboard patriots, they seem fired up enough to sigh-up themselves and go kick some Iraqi butt. If they dont want to sighn-up or re-up they will probably go buy a "Soldier of Fortune" Magazine and hire on with one of the military "contractors" . Be sure and take a laptop and check in here at ATSand tell us what it's like. Seems sort of hypocrycical to whine about the softness of American youth while sitting by a computer playing with your mouse. I was drafted in 1969. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. If I had of been a rich boy maybe I could have learned to fly jets but....

Here's one thing that confuses me; Most of the 9/11 highjackers were Saudi, not Iraqies. Shouldn't we be trying to wipe out the terrorists in Saudi Arabia.

Whaa,

I agree with you.

I keep wondering when we will hear that a certain ATSer has joined up again.

I mean with his continual mentioning of the "soldiering" he did whilst learning to be a man on guard duty in West Germany, coupled with his pride at his offspring's racist desire to kill tanned people, I am shocked that he is still around.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Whaa,

I agree with you.

I keep wondering when we will hear that a certain ATSer has joined up again.

I mean with his continual mentioning of the "soldiering" he did whilst learning to be a man on guard duty in West Germany, coupled with his pride at his offspring's racist desire to kill tanned people, I am shocked that he is still around.

Cheers

BHR

Whoa there Turbo, if your gonna insult me just come out and do it openly instead of playing with words like this. Don't insult serviceman who served if in the military because thats low....no matter what their duty was, its more than most Americans do.

Im proud I spent (4) years in the US Army and if there was no war it was because we did a damn fine job.

jerk

Max


edit to remove the "F' word in front of Jerk

[edit on 053030p://222 by LA_Maximus]

Only one on here I know of that joined after the wars started was Shadow, he joined the Navy. He went from Super mod, tech genius, friend, to going off and training in Chicago for a long time, me and couple others went and saw him at his graduation and such.

Anyways, the draft is perfect! "So, you want to send troops in, but not your own people? Fine..." Later on CNN "As you all know, the republicans denied troops armor(38 out of 39 were republicans) and keep goiong on about how we need to kill kill kill, rape rape rape, yet they won't send any of their people. So with this draft, anyone with an IQ less than 100 will be sent over as cannon fodder. Now that we are wiping out the republican base, us democrats are going to win in a landslide election unlike any other ever seen."

Originally posted by RedDragon
First of all, thousands dead on 9/11 pales in comparision to the over 115,000 Iraqi civilians killed

[edit on 6/17/05 by RedDragon]

and how many in afghanitan?....imagine if 115 000 americans were killed? thered be nukes gettin launched.....

Maybe if people were not so ignorant they would see who is killing the civilians and why.

We were attacked it does not matter if 3 or 3000 Americans died the fact still remains our country was attacked.

LA_Maximus

I guess you aint as moronic as I first thought.

As to my slagging of the troops I actually was not. I was slagging of you.

Just because you happened to serve does not mean anything.

I judge people individually not collectively. That is why I am not a bigoted xenophobe and you are.

I know many people who have served in armed forces of several different nations. Some were worthy of respect and some were prats. They were prats before the served, were prats while they served and are still prats.

Their prattishness had nothing to do with their service of their country.

Now I did not know you before or during your service. I only know you now and only from your postings. I call it as I see evidence for it.

You talk a good game but I do not see you "standing a post, in harm's way" in defence of your ideals.

Were my country in danger I would be amongst the first to volunteer to defend it. However, should my country be taken to war illegally I will brook no pandering BS from those like yourself.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Maybe if people were not so ignorant they would see who is killing the civilians and why.

We were attacked it does not matter if 3 or 3000 Americans died the fact still remains our country was attacked.

WP you DONT get it though, the US has been under attack for the last 200 years, these terrorists are only in the lime light since 9/11, if that had not occured they would still exist and still perform the same acts.

Your country was attacked by terrorists...you hunted down the terrorists responsible or atleast most of them, why dont you relise the war is unwinnable?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
You don't think people willing to die to destroy our way of life
pose a threat to you? You don't think counties which support/harbor
people like that are a threat?

That decision was and continues to be made by current and past U.S administrations. Belligerent foreign meddling & jingoism has delivered this deal to your front door. Even the grand idiot himself was allegedly quoted as saying "“Security is an important element of human life, and free people do not give up their security. Unlike what Bush says --- that we hate freedom ---- let him tell us why didn’t we attack Sweden, for example.” - Osama Bin Laden. Besides there will always be someone, somewhere who will pose a threat. By your logic the entire globe is an enemy.

www.energybulletin.net...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
We were attacked it does not matter if 3 or 3000 Americans died the fact still remains our country was attacked.

Not going to dispute whether the U.S. was attacked that's moot but explain why Saudi Arabia has not been targeted? After all 2/3 of the 19 terrorists origins are believed to be Saudi. Can't be ticking off the oil suppliers now can we. Convenient when you rely on something, but those crazy anti-war folks sure can be a hassle.

brill

DW the war is un-winnable? This conflict has been decades in the making it did not happen over night and you have to wait more than 4 years before making such a judgment.

Not going to dispute whether the U.S. was attacked that's moot but explain why Saudi Arabia has not been targeted? After all 2/3 of the 19 terrorists origins are believed to be Saudi.

Yup, I’m all for it Saudi Arabia continues to have two faces. But you and I both know why we cant attack them we can put pressure on them but not attack them.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Sorry, I guess i have to be utterely and completely specific as possible, if anyone were to threaten/attack any of the afforementioned groups. The specifics aren't really the issue, the fact is i am willing to die to defend those things unlike GradyPhilpott suggested

.

You don't think people willing to die to destroy our way of life pose a threat to you? You don't think counties which support/harbor people like that are a threat?
You have some high standard of threat, we cant just sit back and wait to be attacked before we act and we cant let the threat mature to the point where its too late to do anything about it.

They hate us for our freedoms! Or is it because we can't stop #ing around in other peoples countries and supporting the Jews. What does common sense tell you. Stop drinking the kool-aid it's sweet but that bitter taste should tell you something!