Homosexuality Nature V.S. Nurture

If you want nature and something natural than look at the atomy of the human body and function of each organ.

Then thats natural you cant hide behined the truth of God's creation can you.


As far as the chimps those chimp are not in the natural Habitat but in an man made .

Originally posted by eazy_mas
If you want nature and something natural than look at the atomy of the human body and function of each organ.

Then thats natural you cant hide behined the truth of God's creation can you.


As far as the chimps those chimp are not in the natural Habitat but in an man made .

How did you come up with that deduction? That the anatomy of the human body must somehow prove that God created it?! There's no logic there, at all.

(take your appendix, for example. Why would God have left in that little thing that we really don't need? Not to mention the coccyx. There's no need for the coccyx in humans...why was it left in place?)

So...even allowing for the chimps to be taken out of the equation (which is unnecessary) - how do YOU explain the other incidents of same-sex actions in other species? Those in their natural environments?

Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by cybertroy
Twinkle,

You and I should just get out the boxing gloves and just fight it out.

Aw, you know, I'd be a lousy boxing partner. Personal beliefs ensure that I'd be the idiot in the ring standing there with a "Make Love Not War" sign, waving a tie-dye flag and trying to find "a better way" of solving conflict I'm such a wuss. But I'm proud of my wussiness! (which is an active choice, and isn't genetic, I hasten to add...heh)

Onto genetics (what fun!).

I never implied (nor certainly meant to imply) that we're completely controlled by our genetics. It must be stated though that some aspects of our genetic heritage can be hidden or disguised, just as some can be ignored completely - that doesn't negate that "the tendency" will always be present.

Similarly, if I have a genetically carried disease, there's little I can do about it. I can change my lifestyle so that the disease never impacts my life; I can hide or disguise the fact; but the disease remains. (Before anyone jumps - and I'm sad to think that I actually have to point this out - NO, of course I'm not saying that homosexuality is a disease. I'm using this reference as a base for a discussion about genetics. Nothing more).

I have brown eyes - this was decided by my genetic profile. I can wear coloured contact lenses, if I wish....but I can't change the basic fact that I have brown eyes. The fact that we cannot prove either way whether there is or is not a gene responsible for homosexuality makes it impossible to say whether or not homosexuality is instinctual/inborn versus learned behaviour.

I understand your "poor" analogy. But I can't see that as being quite the same thing; if only because we do not know for sure, as mentioned earlier, whether there's a genetic factor involved with homosexuality.

With regards to mind/matter - yup, I think it's obvious we have differing opinions there, too I keep thinking though about psychosomatic illnesses. These manifest in real, physiological symptoms - often physically debillitating - perhaps good examples of how there is a definite mind/body link.

(btw- I wish, wish, wish I'd thought of Twinkle as a nickname. It is infinitely better than Tinkle...and it brings a much different connotation, too )

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Originally posted by eazy_mas
If you want nature and something natural than look at the atomy of the human body and function of each organ.

Then thats natural you cant hide behined the truth of God's creation can you.


As far as the chimps those chimp are not in the natural Habitat but in an man made .

How did you come up with that deduction? That the anatomy of the human body must somehow prove that God created it?! There's no logic there, at all.

(take your appendix, for example. Why would God have left in that little thing that we really don't need? Not to mention the coccyx. There's no need for the coccyx in humans...why was it left in place?)

So...even allowing for the chimps to be taken out of the equation (which is unnecessary) - how do YOU explain the other incidents of same-sex actions in other species? Those in their natural environments?

Thanks in advance!

Okay in the Quran is writen that the Human bodny is made from planet Earth.

Proof that human body contian minirials similar to the minirals in sand. As well as the Earth is the only planet contina Iron that is even in human sand.

What is your explaination of the creation of human biengs ?

Proof that

Mas. This one is a bit simpler.

YOU make a claim - it's up to you to prove it. Not for someone else to disprove it. Thus - when you've made certain claims, I've asked you to back up your claims. You keep failing to do this....and with all due respect, when you make a statement but cannot back it up, it implies that your argument is without merit.

Now, that aside...what does the composition of sand (or indeed, human composition), have to do with proving or disproving that homosexuality is genetic?

Please explain that to me, as I'm really not sure what you're suggesting.

Thanks, once again

(Once you've done this, I can offer information about the physical and mineral composition of sand - and humans - and perhaps I won't be wondering why it's even a factor in this! )

It depends on your beliefs I guess. Like the guy a few posts back saying God creating a gay gene is silly, not really...you never know. Kids do drop hints at a very young age. It doesn't matter the kind of parents.

Yo i give you something but you disregarding it !


You cant hitbake what i said and its true you have some minierals like Iron Pottasium Lead ...etc

Most things i give you is an Assumed know knowlege

Originally posted by eazy_mas
Yo i give you something but you disregarding it !


You cant hitbake what i said and its true you have some minierals like Iron Pottasium Lead ...etc

Most things i give you is an Assumed know knowlege

No, you misunderstand what I'm asking for, perhaps?

I haven't refuted anything relating to minerals in the sand. I'm asking a) how this relates to homosexuality, and b) why the presence of minerals in the sand is proof of a Creator, or proof that humans were created at all (versus evolution, etc).

Assumed knowledge? I realise we have a language barrier - but I haven't seen you post much (if anything) that satisfies the concept of "assumed knowledge". Do you mean something different? In regards to you offering evidence - no, mas, you really haven't. You've offered conjecture and religious ideas, but nothing in terms of either sharing your thought process as to how A + B = C (in your mind), or anything close to resembling proof of those ideals. You also fail to address the occasions (and there've been a few) where your claims are refuted by logic and/or science, but you continue in the same vein regardless.

Could you perhaps elaborate for me? I'm just trying hard to understand where you're coming from. That's all.

ZZ Psychologists only consider something a disorder if it harms the self or other people and homosexuality does neither tbh.

Also, if you define natural as ^^ like you did by carrying out a function. Well, if a butt hole is capable of stimulating genetalia, it must be natural then? Really though, it doesn't matter if it's natural or not. Mankind's tech, etc is much more unnatural than homoeroticness. You sound like OMG WE'RE MOVING AWAY FROM NATURE OMG WE'RE NOT INTENDED TO DO THIS. Dude, tell yourself what to do. Make your own rules. I've never heard nature talk to me and tell me what to do. Which makes me wonder about you. LOL. You've just got to learn not to force your moral / religious beliefs on other people if what they're doing isn't harming anyone.

I just saying that God created us like that and its a sin to do those stuff.

If God says something you have to obey and thats my mentaliity there is a definet reason why its put there.

as for relegion here is a website about taken sciencetific knowlege from the Quran and proof later by scietist

www.jalyat.net

this website will give you many stuff about there relationship between Islam and science and a thing to think about.

www.jalyat.net

this website will give you many stuff about there relationship between Islam and science and a thing to think about.

I'm going to address a couple of points from that website.

The Universe

We have a statement from a physicist, who makes no mention of a Creator; his comments are referring to the likelihood of Mohammed "knowing" about the physics involved. The majority of the piece contains excerpts of the Quran, and no proof of anything than "This is what God said" - which doesn't constitue proof. The quotes used could be interpreted to mean many things - that in itself renders the supposition questionable at best....we could interpret things to conclude that we're all made from chewing gum, too. But we don't, and for good reason.

Human Embryionic Development

The same method used throughout the website is again displayed here. We have Quran verses, and we have statements made referring to these verses. This one in particular displays nothing more than a statement of religious belief, based upon a professor who is quite obviously a believer in Creationism.

To that end, neither of these examples can be considered evidence. We have religious teachings, interpreted (and loosely, on the last one, to be perfectly frank) and then commented upon, to fit a personal bias .

This isn't scientific evidence, mas - this is just another example of using a hugely subjective interpretation to illustrate a personal belief.

Allright tinkleflower,

We'll just agree that we disagree. Not the first time I've went round and round with someone. Fair enough.

I would be a horrible boxer anyway, I'm not that much into pain. I'd rather play the video game version and get blisters from punching the buttons.

Troy

This conversation is ridiculous. We all know the only acceptable form of homosexuality is two foxy lesbians getting it on.

Anyway, I live in strict adherence to the Bible. It's a lonely life, but righteous. Lonely because I had to kill both my wife and my son, by hey; Them's the breaks.

It's not my fault though... I walked in on my wife trying on trousers; It killed me, but she had to go. I mean the good book said so, and that's the word of God right? And who am I to argue with God? So I just whacked her over the head with a brick. I know, I know, the Bible says stoning but I couldn't go that far. I just hope on that glorious day St Peter can see it within himself to see I was only acting out of love and mercy. I mean, a brick's a kind of stone right?

Unfortunately my son came home from school shortly after, and no matter how many times I tried to explain that it was Gods will that I caved his mothers head in, he just didn't understand. I tried for hours and all I got for my efforts was abuse, abuse, abuse!

What to do! I hear you cry. Well logically, I took him to the Mayor and demanded his death by stoning. I mean if I couldn't send my wife off the right way, at least I'll do right by my son!

Unfortunately the Mayor was not a man of God. He told me he was calling the police and that I was insane. Insane!? For following the word of God!? Clearly the man was a heretic of the worst order.

So I smashed my sons skull in myself. Fortunately I'd neglected to rid myself of the object of my harlot wife's demise.

Yes, it's a lonely life following the word of God. I console myself with the fact that at least she was a virgin when I married her or she'd of have to have gone from the start. I got a good two years out of her before she had to bite the biscuit. And at least I was the one to send her to back the almighty, she'll be glad of that. I mean in this world of heretics who could I rely on to give a decent stoning?! Nobody! That's who!

Still, at least they weren't gay.




Pick and choose people, pick and choose. Live it all or shut the hell up.



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[edit on 25-6-2005 by kegs]