Is LUCIFER real or FICTION is there a Luciferian conspiracy?

what is he?
Is he a archangel?
Was the The archangel cast from heaven for leading the revolt of angels?
Is there a Satanic Plot for a One World Government?
Who controls the monies?

I really wish people stopped using "Lucifer" (The morning star, light bearer, Venus) when refering to Satan (Adversary; accuser).

Most of what you are describing is what is known as "Christian Mythology" and was covered at length in John Miltons epic poem "Paradise lost" most people get thier information about interactions between heaven and hell, angels and thier fall, from that poem. It is amazing how popular it has become and now people think it is a work of non-fiction, or at least it's concepts. Kind of like what has happened with "DaVinci Code" today

Before you ask those questions you need to ask what context you want the answer from since there are many. From a purely biblical point of veiw Lucifer as Satan does not exist in any form.

Whatever you want to call him, yes he does exists. If you are not religious then the best way to explain it is to say that most christians are taught, where there is a heaven, there is hell, where there is God, there is Satan.

Satan is a fallen angel.

And christianity is not a myth.

First, when you read the bible you will notice that new names are given to people at key points in their life.
Lucifer is the same as satan, devil, The Adversary, The Accuser, The evil one..etc

Before he fell, he was called lucifer. After he fell and caused mans fall, he was called satan.

The Lake of Fire was made for him and his fallen angels. Not man. People who ignore God, and thus become followers of satan, will share in his end.

Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


and we see in Ezekiel

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


Now you see enough to get the timing of the fall of Lucifer, and the reason for it.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
I really wish people stopped using "Lucifer" (The morning star, light bearer, Venus) when referring to Satan (Adversary; accuser).

Ditto that! Totally agree with what you said in your post. As to the thread's question? Is there a Luciferian conspiracy? Yes, but only on alternating Tuesdays.

Originally posted by smadewell

Originally posted by Jehosephat
I really wish people stopped using "Lucifer" (The morning star, light bearer, Venus) when referring to Satan (Adversary; accuser).

Ditto that! Totally agree with what you said in your post. As to the thread's question? Is there a Luciferian conspiracy? Yes, but only on alternating Tuesdays.

John Milton (1608-1674)

KJV bible 1611. Unless Milton did all of this by the age of 3, I doubt it comes from him.


Sevenstars 777

Yes, Lucifer was the highest of angels. The bible calls him the cherub that covers. Until he rebelled.

Originally posted by jake1997
Yes, Lucifer was the highest of angels. The bible calls him the cherub that covers. Until he rebelled.

Is that from the KJV or NIV? and can you quotes the passages of the bible to confirm your statement?

Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by Jehosephat I really wish people stopped using "Lucifer" (The morning star, light bearer, Venus) when referring to Satan (Adversary; accuser). Most of what you are describing is what is known as "Christian Mythology" and was covered at length in John Miltons epic poem "Paradise Lost" most people get thier information about interactions between heaven and hell, angels and thier fall, from that poem.

John Milton (1608-1674) KJV bible 1611. Unless Milton did all of this by the age of 3, I doubt it comes from him.

He wasn't saying Milton was born before the KJV. Come one, Jake. You can do better than that.

Here ya go.
Its the KJVR



Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

That is very nice Jake, but i fail to see how a prophacy against the Kingdom of Tyre, which at the time is a prosperous trading kingdom on the sea, which would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon. If anything the King of Trye is nothing more then a figurative Satan. Which does nothing to prove your point that "lucifer" was the highest of angels except in allegory and figurative reasoning

Originally posted by Jehosephat
That is very nice Jake, but i fail to see how a prophacy against the Kingdom of Tyre, which at the time is a prosperous trading kingdom on the sea, which would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon. If anything the King of Trye is nothing more then a figurative Satan. Which does nothing to prove your point that "lucifer" was the highest of angels except in allegory and figurative reasoning

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

We learn in several parts of the bible that satan wanted to be in Gods place. His pride was the iniquity that was found in him. In the NT when Jesus cast out a certain demon, it asks if the son of God has come to torment them before their time. In another place we see Jesus explaining that when a demon is cast out , it walks through the hot dry places and them comes back with 7 other demons worse then itself.
The sides of the pit, the lower regions of hell that we saw in lazerus and the rich man....I believe is that hot dry place. In Revelation it is the bottomless pit.

Moving on to Zeek...

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

You have to ignore quite a bit to make that only the king of Tyre.

Perfect
walked in Eden
etc...

That takes pure conjecture to claim that the passages talk about "lucifer" when It could easily be talking abouit Adam, or more specifically Mankind.

In fact, they could be talking about MANY things and it is only thru conjecture we can assume it is something we have no proof really is.

You need to build a straonger case then just quoting a specific bible passage over and over to make your point

Originally posted by jake1997You have to ignore quite a bit to make that only the king of Tyre. Perfect. Walked in Eden, etc....

Hyperbole - extravagant exaggeration. Also known as flowery speech.

[edit on 21-6-2005 by smadewell]

Originally posted by Jehosephat
That takes pure conjecture to claim that the passages talk about "lucifer" when It could easily be talking abouit Adam, or more specifically Mankind.

In fact, they could be talking about MANY things and it is only thru conjecture we can assume it is something we have no proof really is.

You need to build a straonger case then just quoting a specific bible passage over and over to make your point

You ignore too much to make such statements.
There is no point in going on about it.

Originally posted by jake1997There is no point in going on about it.

At last! We agree!