Western Europe becoming more and more anti-American?

Originally posted by IAF101
IT IS NOT ABOUT ME THAT THE SENTENCE REFERS TO BUT TO THE US ARMY!!
Comprende??
The US army deserves that gratitude and you owe it to them not to me, I have withstood many snide remarks and am still here! I don't care about personal insults-they are petty, compared to what some Europeans are trying to do!
What was the cause they fought for? Do you know? They fought for the dignity of human life! They fought for all those who couldn't fight for themselves and all those who were being oppressed, not because they would receive your gratitude !!

The knowledge that most of you Europeans would see better days was cause enough for those great soles!!
But that doesn't mean you should show no respect for them, and accuse the USArmy of being some renegade mercenary.

As I mentioned, we do respect the soldiers that fought with us in the Second World War them. However, my respect for the American Military of WWII has no baring on my opinion of the current US military. It's like me saying that the US "owes one" to the French government (and fellow Republic) for helping them out all those years ago in the Revolution.

And by the way I am fully aware of the reasons why those men fought, and you will find my opinions very similar to your own. Please try not to get wound up by the initial question I asked as it was not specifically directed at you, but it does have to be said that many threads regarding the subject of Europe tend to degenerate into "We saved you, so you owe us" jingoistic nonsense.

P.S. I never accused the US military of being mercenaries, that was someone else.

In regards to your comments on the British Film Industry, you're right in the sense that we can't really compete with Hollywood (or Bollywood for that matter). However, lots of American films are made over here (Shepperton and Pinewood Studios being notable examples) and believe me when I say that America is more than welcome to keep doing that, it's healthy for both our nations!

Originally posted by IAF101
What was the cause they fought for? Do you know? They fought for the dignity of human life! They fought for all those who couldn't fight for themselves and all those who were being oppressed, not because they would receive your gratitude !!

The knowledge that most of you Europeans would see better days was cause enough for those great souls***!!

***Spelling corrected (returning the favor!!)

Is it WWII or a John Wayne movie you are talking about it?

Seems you may be confusing the two of them. Wrap yourself up in a flag and keep whispering these things to yourself. It will make you feel better!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Is it WWII or a John Wayne movie you are talking about it?

See this proves it ! Your are very deeply influenced by American TV and American culture! How else would you know a John Wayne western with your supposed 'cultural insouciance' ??

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Wrap yourself up in a flag and keep whispering these things to yourself. It will make you feel better!

Well atleast my flag is worth wrapping myself in, I can't say the same about yours!

BTW your from IRELAND right? Does that have a flag? or do you use the same British flag like N.IRELAND .

[edit on 16-6-2005 by IAF101]

Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge
However, my respect for the American Military of WWII has no baring on my opinion of the current US military. It's like me saying that the US "owes one" to the French government (and fellow Republic) for helping them out all those years ago in the Revolution.

The USA has returned the favor to France for providing support to us during the war for independence in America. The French revolution was largely inspired by the American revolution and we helped them form the republic they are now.
French Embassy In the US
But you are right this isn't about keeping account of the past and extracting favours or loyalty in the present, this is about support of issues and in a democratic setup the voice of the opposition must always be heard.

Seems shaking the tree brought more than one of them out...

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
This again goes back to an earlier point made that one of the main reasons for Anti-American sentiment is that Europe is somehow jealous of America.

Your cynical remarks itself prove this point!!

I fail to see how I was cynical pointing out that many Americans feel Europeans dislike them because they are jealous of them? I think we have established that most Europeans are not in the slightest bit jealous of you.

We have gladly traded our colonial past for a future of having decent health care, education and over all superior quality of life. This is much more desirable than empire building and being the global pariah the US has become.

Actually Globalization has its roots in Europe and America is just expanding what you started off to begin with.

So yet again, if Europe did it a 100 years ago, it is okay for the US to do it now. Jeez, pass the buck again! If it was a good thing it would no doubt have originated in America.

Hold on! There's a thought! Nothing you have in America, including yourselves, originated there! You got a lot of it Europe as far as I remember? It's okay to point out Europe's old colonial past, lets point out your own origins as being Europeans!!!!!

I think America's actions influence Europe far more than Europe's actions influence America!

Europe has zero influence on US politics and the US hasn't much more. If it did Tony Blair would be out on his ear.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
However, I feel it necessary to point out the silliness of there being any dominance of the US over Europe militarily with two points.
1. Europe has a collection of modern and well equipped armies.

Please note this particular statement has netted me 10 euros in bet money.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
The US has never taken on a proper army since W.W.II. Of all the small countries it has taken on since W.W.II, a number of them have defeated the US.

Again Wrong!

Whoops! Forgot we weren't reading from the same song sheet. History most definately is written by the victors it would seem!

Do you remember the USSR? Wasn't it a " proper army" >? Or is Europe now stronger than the USSR was?

***bangs chest furiously*** Urgh! We took on the USSR!!! Urgh! Oh, please, when did I say the Europeans were stronger than the USSR?

Right! Time for a little history lesson!!

The US action in Korea was a success
Korea reduced to rubble, 4.5 million dead, 54,000 US soldiers dead. 3 years of intense warfare, and despite your technological superiority it ends in a cease-fire. The battle lines still hold to this day.
A success?

the US action in Iraq was/is a success
Why are you still over there then?
A success?

US action against Libya was a success
King Idris rolls over for Standard Oil. Col. Qadhafi kicks him out before he lets the US rob them blind. US not too happy, so they bomb Tripoli. They of course had a reason, Libya was said to be responsible for a bomb attack on US soldiers in Germany. This of course turned out to be a falsification, one which the US today readily admits to.
A success?

Vietnam
A country razed to the ground, contaminated. 2 Million dead. 60,000 US soldiers gave their lives, a further 300,000 gave limbs or worse. Add to that, despite your technical superiority, you were defeated by a lightly armed but determined peasant army.
A success?

So, in summation....

We European are not:
1. Jealous of America.
2. Scared/Impressed by your military might.
3. Beholden to you financially.
4. Culturally famished without you.

We have anti-American sentiments because:
1. You are extremely arrogant.
2. Untrustworthy.
3. Fixated on your image.
4. Have illusions of granduer.
5. Forget where you and most of your people came from.

Originally posted by IAF101
Well atleast my flag is worth wrapping myself in

I hear it burns well!!!!

BTW your from IRELAND right? Does that have a flag? or do you use the same British flag like N.IRELAND .

Oh, you cheeky monkey! Somebody has taken classes in "Push an Irishman's buttons" 101 I see.

Pog mo thoin, iainci amadainin!!!!

As you council member, i would like this thread to chill out abit..

Please read

www.abovetopsecret.com...

2.) You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

[edit on 16-6-2005 by infinite]

Well atleast my flag is worth wrapping myself in, I can't say the same about yours!

BTW your from IRELAND right? Does that have a flag? or do you use the same British flag like N.IRELAND .

I really don't see the point in insulting Ireland.
Also a simple google or search on wikipedia would have revealed that Ireland does have a flag.

Seems these Trolls refuse to die!!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
I fail to see.......

Well that not new is it?

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
This is much more desirable than empire building and being the global pariah the US has become.

Yawn! Is there anything new or is mere repitation going to turn this delusion into fact?

So yet again, if Europe did it a 100 years ago, it is okay for the US to do it now. Jeez, pass the buck again!

I have said this a million times, and this is going to be a million and one!
Firstly, we are not doing what Europe did - i.e COLONIALISM .
Secondly, globalization is good for all the economies of the world as is free trade, it helps developing nations (look at China, India !! ) and also the devoloped nations economically which inturn helps the devoloping nations and the cycle continues!
Lastly, I am not passing the ' buck' so to speak but merely insinuating that your propensity to accuse us of something which you have started is ludicrous!

If it was a good thing it would no doubt have originated in America.

You bet!! Like the light bulb, telephone, aeroplane.......and everything!

lets point out your own origins as being Europeans!!!!!

Yeah, we were Europeans but we though it sucked so we came to America and set up a different system! Also we don't see ourself's as Europeans as Europeans turned their backs on us in the first place!

Please note this particular statement has netted me 10 euros in bet money.

What has this got to do with the topic at hand ? Why don't you go rant about your 'thrills' in BTS! Don't waste our time!

The US action in Korea was a success
Korea reduced to rubble, 4.5 million dead, 54,000 US soldiers dead. 3 years of intense warfare, and despite your technological superiority it ends in a cease-fire. The battle lines still hold to this day.
A success?

Yes! WE liberated the South Koreans from Communist aggression and forced the North into a cease fire! America, unlike our 'colonial cousins' wasn't interested to set up a colony and trade spices or other such foolishness we were there to liberate people and that's what we did.
The action stopped when the Soviet Union along with the Maoists decided that it was useless to pursue the korean campaign as the allies were clearly winning and they would lose what ever the alreaday had, hence they called a truce!
I don't know what convoluted version of history you read but this is what happened!

the US action in Iraq was/is a success
Why are you still over there then?
A success?

YES! We are still there to finish the job and unlike " colonialists" we don't turn our backs and run at the first sign of trouble, forcing the Iraqi's to fend for themselves! We will stay as long Iraq is not safe and is incapable of protecting itself from terrorists and foreign powers!

So, in summation....
We have anti-American sentiments because:
1. We think* You are extremely arrogant.

*Factual correction.
Well thats not our problem is it! What you think! Just don't go wagging that tounge all about and spreading lies!

2. Untrustworthy.

Why don't we bail you Europens out when you get messed up in things that are too big for your boots!

3. Fixated on your image.

Not image exactly but about the lies that people spread about us!

4. Have illusions of granduer.

Granduer? What granduer? We don't have any "royals" or empire do we? No, again another one of your concocted lies!.

5. Forget where you and most of your people came from.

Oh! we remember all right! Every 4th of July you should come and see how many people remember and how glad they are that we became free!

I don't think this is fun anymore as I have to keep repeating every thing I have already said in this same thread for every other 'Champ' who comes to educate us!

[edit on 16-6-2005 by IAF101]

Did I or did I not predict this. God I love these forums.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Pog mo thoin, iainci amadainin!!!!

LOL! What comes around goes around doggie!
And kisses to you too doggie

Infinite
I As you council member, i would like this thread to chill out abit..

Sorry about that Infinite, But I just had to pay him back in his own coin!
This feels juvenile but it’s was he who started it with the Flag abuse! So I diligently carried it on!
I'm sorry though should have stoped I guess. Oh well!

cmdrpaddy
I really don't see the point in insulting Ireland.

Sorry there Paddy! Mean no disrespect to ireland and all !!
But as the Japanese say; Shikata Ga Nai


[edit on 16-6-2005 by IAF101]

Any chance of this not disintigrating further into a trollfest? Sad to see some posters are oblivious to their own trolling

Can we get back to the point? Please? With sugar and cherries on the top?

Hmm, I come and go from this post but it does continue to go downhill even when good posters have tried to put it back on track. I don't think anyone is listening tinkle. Perhaps this is just a sample of how serious communication breakdown is occuring between America and Europe. People on a website can't even keep it together, what makes us think our gov'ts can? Good luck.

Well atleast my flag is worth wrapping myself in, I can't say the same about yours!

BTW your from IRELAND right? Does that have a flag? or do you use the same British flag like N.IRELAND .

Being of some Irish descent, I will have to warn you.. keep talkin' like that and I'll feed you to the hogs.

There's no need to slam others' flags.

Phew! It got a bit heated there for a few posts! Let's drop the trolling and baiting on both sides and try this again. I made a few incendiary comments for which I apoligise.

It is difficult to debate something like this that arouses passions in people so easily. However, as we actually did make a small bit of progress it is worth extending this discussion.

Of course, the moment that I pass an opinion or theory that is likely to enrage, we may be back to flame wars again, so let's make a pact now, that if a statement made by one side infuriates the other, we discuss and analyse why the statement is so infuriating, rather than reacting in a knee-jerk way and starting the whole mess again.

One of the reasons there is Anti-American sentiment growing in Europe is because they make statements that seem arrogant and bellicose. How would Americans react to these sentiments? Would you care to comment?

As I said, this is not an attempt to troll or start flaming someone. When you are dealing with issues of sentiments and national pride it is quite difficult not to react badly. So this could be a very challenging thread to continue. As you have seen already it has descended into flaming a few times. Yet, the thread is not dead, as people have a genuine interest in getting to the bottom of this.

Let's try again, okay?

It doesn't help that in some countries - ok, England is the one sticking out - there have been segments of certain TV shows (and in one or two instances, entire shows) devoted to "The Stupid Things Americans Do", and "Only In America!".

Yes, it's all under the guise of entertainment, and thus carries an assumed air of "oh, it's harmless".

But is it truly harmless if it's encouraging - deliberately or otherwise - such an overwhelmingly negative point of view?

Originally posted by IAF101

IT IS NOT ABOUT ME THAT THE SENTENCE REFERS TO BUT TO THE US ARMY!!
Comprende??
The US army deserves that gratitude and you owe it to them not to me, I have withstood many snide remarks and am still here! I don't care about personal insults-they are petty, compared to what some Europeans are trying to do!
What was the cause they fought for? Do you know? They fought for the dignity of human life! They fought for all those who couldn't fight for themselves and all those who were being oppressed, not because they would receive your gratitude !!

The knowledge that most of you Europeans would see better days was cause enough for those great souls!!
But that doesn't mean you should show no respect for them, and accuse the USArmy of being some renegade mercenary.


[edit on 16-6-2005 by IAF101]

Exactly the same point could be made by Americans about the British, Canadian, and Polish forces in WW2 but, sadly, it rarely is!

We could have capitulated, kept our empire, navy and infrastructure intact and overall done much better out of 1939-1945 by not choosing to defend democracy. We chose the difficult road instead.

At its worst we had tons of mustard gas destined for the German invasion forces. We knew what that would mean and yet were still prepared to use it if we had to - national mass-suicide for the cause. Would corporate America allow such national principle to endanger trade if faced with a comparable threat - the Luftwaffe / Germany Army poised on the other side of the Great Lakes - ? I'm not sure it would.

Too often we hear 'we saved your ass', 'you'd be speaking german' etc etc. Is your education system that bad? I know your TV / Film industry goes out of its way to deny our involvement & effort but do you honestly believe that rubbish?

We (UK, Poles, Czech,etc) took on and defeated the Luftwaffe

We beat Rommel in the desert

We (UK, Canadian, Polish) took on the bulk (and beat!) of the German
forces, the bulk of the Panzers in the worst terrain in Normandy

Montgomery planned and led the invasion / Normandy battle. His strategy was entirely vindicated, the final objectives were achieved by D+90 as planned. He was a very strange man but as a General had few equals

Our industrial contribution turned 2nd rate kit into war-winning equipment (P51, Sherman Firefly etc). We handed over all our tech to you without charge or condition (Merlin, Enigma, PT boats etc etc) you've benefited economically from our generosity immensely since '45). We gave you our supersonic technology leading directly to your X-1 success.

In return for 50 clapped-out WW1 destroyers (for which we were grateful) you extracted the heavy price of our naval bases around the World. The destroyers were history before the 60's - you still have our bases. Hardly the fairest deal.

Despite the strictures of war-time production we provided (and delivered!) significant amounts of equipment to the USSR

We bled ourselves white and emptied our entire account to wage a war we could have avoided - does this count for nothing? It appears not to from many American postings on here

I notice you think the US won the war in Iraq - leaving the question of victory to one side - did you know 46,000 UK personnel were involved in the 'combat phase'? (46,000 out of 210,000 while still committed to N Ireland, Kosovo, Afganistan, etc etc!). Is our contribution unrecognised?

www.mod.uk...

Perhaps other reasons Brits are critical of this new America?

R

Not Anti-America, just anti-this America

There are people here in europe that dont like the trail of destruction that the usa leaves behind. What is wrong with a very critical view on a war that is based on LIES. Europeans feel like the usa does more bad than good. And for those who like to point out that you saved europeas asses in ww2 : What has the thing the usa does today to do with the things done in ww2. Goodguys can do very bad things too.
Maybe you should invade europe and force a regime change.

reply to post by Disturbed Deliverer


i find can kinda see why he uses the analogy.. hitler was an evil and murderous man. but brits right.. bush has his agenda and he has a point about needing to protect america.. however the man comes across as a moron when he speaks most of the time.. but remember we got the short end of the stick when we had to step in to help other countries before and we were told that we should have stuck around and made sure that the job was done right.. now we are doing that and were still getting crap, because we aren't doin things the way others would. i'm no fan of bush but now i think we have to finnish what we began..a lot of people seem to forget the atrosities that were commited by saddam. and what happend when they thought that we were gonna stay when they had their little revolution.. and look what happened.. we backed out due to un and european leaders opinion..does anybody remember what happend to those freedom fighters??? they were slaughtered, tourtured and some had their whole families wiped out..

[edit on 2-6-2008 by scorand]

reply to post by CTID56092


most americans do remember what the european community contributed. but u guys seem to forget our contributions.. the things you were complaining about the U.S taking from you.. that was givin to us then we gave so much money and supplies into helping rebuild after the war.. and didnt ask for anything in return. we know how much the rest of europe put in to those wars and the sacrifices that were made..we made them too. but if we show any national pride like you guys do then we are nasty evil people.. by the way we are taught about the efforts of all involved.. were you? i wonder as we are quickly discounted no matter what we do..

[edit on 2-6-2008 by scorand]