if the nwo offered you a place on the inside would you?

Originally posted by thelibra
Now as for this whole business of sacrificing your soul, etc... I don't think God gives a hoot about which government is running what. I don't think Communist, Monarchy, Dictatorship, or Republic States have any say in whether or not a person goes to heaven. That's GOD'S choice.

Now if the NWO said "We'll make you elite, as long as you eat this raw baby flesh and praise Satan", then I'd tell them where to put their rubbish. But if it was simply a matter of "Join our One World Government or be considered a terrorist" then fine, I'll join, because it's a better lifestyle, and people don't try to shoot you as often.

Do you know your Bible? It talks about a 1 world government runned by Satan. Many Christians believe the NWO is that government the Bible talks about. Accepting the NWO is rejecting God receiving the mark of the beast is rejecting God. You are either with God or against him. I'm sure you already heard about microchips inplanted in humans. Some Christians believe the NWO is going to use microchips as the mark of the beast. So all this God doesn't care is full of crap. There is going to be a 1 world government many politicians have talked and the UN have mentioned it. Let's be serious here.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

A thread already talks about the bible and the NWO being foreseen

[rul]http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread120376/pg1[/url]

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
Do you know your Bible?

Yes. Better than most Christians I've ever met, in fact. I've read it, dozens of times in it's entirety, and as a reference point at least weekly. Theology is one of my interests. I think it's a fine book.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
It talks about a 1 world government runned by Satan.

I assume you are referring to the passages in Revelations, written during a time when Romans were invading the land and their heathen ways were an abomination to the few "Christians" at the time. Revelations was written as both a prophesy, and a warning about the Roman Empire, in a codified language called "Apocolyptic", and with heavy symbology to hide specifics.
Why was this done? Because unlike present day Americans, seditious material was not allowed. In that time and place, if one wrote a book entitled "Rome sucks, here's why, and here's what you need to do to change it" then the author would probably be executed in some fashion.

Thanks to the codification, and heavy symbolism though, any of the very few copies originally made that found themselves in Roman hands were easily dismissed as mere prophesy. Most of the references you will read in there as stunning imagery are allusions to things that were happening within the Roman Empire at the time, and make a lot more sense if you are familiar with it.

Thus Revelations is little more than a criticism of Rome, a warning of what is to come if Rome continued it's heathen ways, and a word of hope to the handful of Christians who were around at the time. It is in no way surprising to me that there should be an allusion to a One World Government, when Rome was in the process of conquering and converting everything it its path. Imagining they might very well take over the entire world is an obvious conclusion.

And since Revelation wasn't even written by one of the disciples, but several generations later, I don't buy the whole "God Wrote It" stance. The John that wrote Revelation was not the same John that wrote the other "John" books.

But let's just ignore all that factual hooey phooey for now, and assume that Revelation is a literal prophesy of the endtimes, written by God through man.

Are we just to ignore the preceding prophesies? Are they just too inconvenient? John writes a specific order for these things. And if, in fact, it was channeled through John by God, that order is infallible. There is no middle ground on this. So where are the horsemen? Where is the woman with the child? Where is the ark, returned? Where are the dead rising from their graves? Where are those two prophets in sackcloth that make flambe out of those who try to harm them? Where is the woman with the crown of stars? Where is the dragon? Why haven't 1/3 of the stars fallen to Earth?

Three possible different reasons:

1.) Because it's not THE New World Order of the Antichrist, but rather just -A- New World Order, and there's nothing spiritually to worry about. It's just another government.

or

2.) The book of Revelations is nothing more than a codified literary criticism of the Roman Empire, and -not- a book of prophesy.

or

3.) The preceding signs have yet to happen and though it might be the beginning of THE New World Order by the antichrist, it isn't -yet-.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
Many Christians believe the NWO is that government the Bible talks about.

Considering the beliefs held by "Most Christians" I've encountered don't even mesh with the Bible's text and history, but rather what some minister or priest told them to believe, I don't really give this much merit.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
Accepting the NWO is rejecting God receiving the mark of the beast is rejecting God.

While the latter is true, per Revelations, the former is not stated. In fact, even those who remain on God's side are told to accept the NWO, but remain steadfast in their loyalty to God.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
You are either with God or against him. I'm sure you already heard about microchips inplanted in humans. Some Christians believe the NWO is going to use microchips as the mark of the beast.

Three very disconnected statements. The first is also incorrect. There is also a more neutral ground. There are those who may not be for or against God, but are rather curious observers. The second, about microchips, yes, I've heard of them, and while the thought of a microchip implanted in me gives me shivers, this is not in and of itself and act of Satan or rebellion against God. As for the third statement, see my earlier reply about "what most christians believe".

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
So all this God doesn't care is full of crap. There is going to be a 1 world government many politicians have talked and the UN have mentioned it. Let's be serious here.

I would ask the same of you. You have given me absolutely no evidence that the New World Order is controlled by Satan, or even that it exists. The size or power of a Government is not something that God cares about, only its practices. If a government like America (in present condition or earlier) were to suddenly be the only government in the world, I see nothing that God as described in the Bible would take offense to, because it does not infringe on religious rights. In fact, religion seems to have more rights than science at the moment.

Just because there -might- be -a- One World Government in the future, doesn't mean it is -THE- One World Government, allegedy prophesied in Revelations.

The same goes for some sort of universal ID. It does not neccesarily mean it is the mark of the beast. The mark might not even be a form of ID. It may be something we can't even conceive of at this point.

And if you are an avid bible reader yourself, then I need not remind you of the futility of trying to predict when the endtimes will occur.

Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
Do you know your Bible?

Yes. Better than most Christians I've ever met, in fact. I've read it, dozens of times in it's entirety, and as a reference point at least weekly. Theology is one of my interests. I think it's a fine book.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
It talks about a 1 world government runned by Satan.

I assume you are referring to the passages in Revelations, written during a time when Romans were invading the land and their heathen ways were an abomination to the few "Christians" at the time. Revelations was written as both a prophesy, and a warning about the Roman Empire, in a codified language called "Apocolyptic", and with heavy symbology to hide specifics.
Why was this done? Because unlike present day Americans, seditious material was not allowed. In that time and place, if one wrote a book entitled "Rome sucks, here's why, and here's what you need to do to change it" then the author would probably be executed in some fashion.

Thanks to the codification, and heavy symbolism though, any of the very few copies originally made that found themselves in Roman hands were easily dismissed as mere prophesy. Most of the references you will read in there as stunning imagery are allusions to things that were happening within the Roman Empire at the time, and make a lot more sense if you are familiar with it.

Thus Revelations is little more than a criticism of Rome, a warning of what is to come if Rome continued it's heathen ways, and a word of hope to the handful of Christians who were around at the time. It is in no way surprising to me that there should be an allusion to a One World Government, when Rome was in the process of conquering and converting everything it its path. Imagining they might very well take over the entire world is an obvious conclusion.

And since Revelation wasn't even written by one of the disciples, but several generations later, I don't buy the whole "God Wrote It" stance. The John that wrote Revelation was not the same John that wrote the other "John" books.

But let's just ignore all that factual hooey phooey for now, and assume that Revelation is a literal prophesy of the endtimes, written by God through man.

Are we just to ignore the preceding prophesies? Are they just too inconvenient? John writes a specific order for these things. And if, in fact, it was channeled through John by God, that order is infallible. There is no middle ground on this. So where are the horsemen? Where is the woman with the child? Where is the ark, returned? Where are the dead rising from their graves? Where are those two prophets in sackcloth that make flambe out of those who try to harm them? Where is the woman with the crown of stars? Where is the dragon? Why haven't 1/3 of the stars fallen to Earth?

Three possible different reasons:

1.) Because it's not THE New World Order of the Antichrist, but rather just -A- New World Order, and there's nothing spiritually to worry about. It's just another government.

or

2.) The book of Revelations is nothing more than a codified literary criticism of the Roman Empire, and -not- a book of prophesy.

or

3.) The preceding signs have yet to happen and though it might be the beginning of THE New World Order by the antichrist, it isn't -yet-.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
Many Christians believe the NWO is that government the Bible talks about.

Considering the beliefs held by "Most Christians" I've encountered don't even mesh with the Bible's text and history, but rather what some minister or priest told them to believe, I don't really give this much merit.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
Accepting the NWO is rejecting God receiving the mark of the beast is rejecting God.

While the latter is true, per Revelations, the former is not stated. In fact, even those who remain on God's side are told to accept the NWO, but remain steadfast in their loyalty to God.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
You are either with God or against him. I'm sure you already heard about microchips inplanted in humans. Some Christians believe the NWO is going to use microchips as the mark of the beast.

Three very disconnected statements. The first is also incorrect. There is also a more neutral ground. There are those who may not be for or against God, but are rather curious observers. The second, about microchips, yes, I've heard of them, and while the thought of a microchip implanted in me gives me shivers, this is not in and of itself and act of Satan or rebellion against God. As for the third statement, see my earlier reply about "what most christians believe".

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
So all this God doesn't care is full of crap. There is going to be a 1 world government many politicians have talked and the UN have mentioned it. Let's be serious here.

I would ask the same of you. You have given me absolutely no evidence that the New World Order is controlled by Satan, or even that it exists. The size or power of a Government is not something that God cares about, only its practices. If a government like America (in present condition or earlier) were to suddenly be the only government in the world, I see nothing that God as described in the Bible would take offense to, because it does not infringe on religious rights. In fact, religion seems to have more rights than science at the moment.

Just because there -might- be -a- One World Government in the future, doesn't mean it is -THE- One World Government, allegedy prophesied in Revelations.

The same goes for some sort of universal ID. It does not neccesarily mean it is the mark of the beast. The mark might not even be a form of ID. It may be something we can't even conceive of at this point.

And if you are an avid bible reader yourself, then I need not remind you of the futility of trying to predict when the endtimes will occur.

I'm not going to reply to someone who doesn't even believe the NWO exists. It's a waste of my time..

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
I'm not going to reply to someone who doesn't even believe the NWO exists. It's a waste of my time..

You had to quote my entire message for that one sentance? Dang, kid, learn some editing.

As for it being "a waste of your time", consider how I feel when I spend all morning constructing a well thought-out reply to you, and it's blown off just because, God-forbid, someone presents you with a different point of view.

Oi, Saint4God, if you're reading, this Jerry fellow is the sort of Christian I'm talking about. If you or anyone else cares to debate my earlier post, I'm completely open to rational discussion.

Originally posted by JerryFletcher
I'm not going to reply to someone who doesn't even believe the NWO exists. It's a waste of my time..

If you can't defend your views ATS isn't really for you. If you wish everyone to accept what you say as fact and not counter it, ATS isn't for you. It's a shame that Libra wasted his time on you. It's clear you are unable to defend your views and bring people around to your thinking. It is because of people like you that Non-NWO believers will get their views turned around. You do more harm to the "cause" then you do good.

thelibra, I'll get back to you once I've had a chance to get my Bible from storage, etc. I enjoy a good rant now and again with you.

Originally posted by Odium
thelibra, I'll get back to you once I've had a chance to get my Bible from storage, etc. I enjoy a good rant now and again with you.

I look forward to it, Odium. I've been itching for some good solid material to pass the working hours...

Out of curiosity, which stance will you be taking?

Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by Odium
thelibra, I'll get back to you once I've had a chance to get my Bible from storage, etc. I enjoy a good rant now and again with you.

I look forward to it, Odium. I've been itching for some good solid material to pass the working hours...

Out of curiosity, which stance will you be taking?

I'll take the crazy Biblical route on things. Myself I think a New World Order will probably happen; or at least people will attempt to do it. If it is good or bad? Who knows...all depends on who gets into power.

Originally posted by thelibra
I would ask the same of you. You have given me absolutely no evidence that the New World Order is controlled by Satan, or even that it exists. The size or power of a Government is not something that God cares about, only its practices. If a government like America (in present condition or earlier) were to suddenly be the only government in the world, I see nothing that God as described in the Bible would take offense to, because it does not infringe on religious rights. In fact, religion seems to have more rights than science at the moment.

Just because there -might- be -a- One World Government in the future, doesn't mean it is -THE- One World Government, allegedy prophesied in Revelations.

the libra

Are you referring to our Government/corporate elitists who prance around for two-weeks during the summer, you know, dressed out in druid robes divulging in Satanic mock sacrifices to a giant "idol" statue of a great owl? So does this act of breaking a major commandment finally, in your opinion, command the attention of a Christian/Catholic god? When you mention "no harm" regarding a government like America trying to achieve the objective of sole NWO ownership of the planet we call Earth, are you referring to it's current foreign policy of spreading democracy by Military force?

hehe..

If you haven't noticed the Bilderbergs ARE the NWO and their currently discussing ways to rule the world over tea 'n biscuits..

[edit on 9-6-2005 by syntaxer]

Originally posted by syntaxer
Are you referring to our Government/corporate elitists who prance around for two-weeks during the summer, you know, dressed out in druid robes divulging in Satanic mock sacrifices to a giant "idol" statue of a great owl?

(blinks slowly) Errr... No, not to my recollection... At least the ones I know like to go skiing a lot. They tend to wear these soft terrycloth robes after a good soak in the hot tub, and I think a couple of them own exotic birds... does that count?

Originally posted by syntaxer
So does this act of breaking a major commandment finally, in your opinion, command the attention of a Christian/Catholic god?

Hmmm... well, hypothetically, if our political leaders, in their off-time, decided to prance around the woods in robes, and worship an owl, I think that's between them and God. For all I know, God doesn't care. After all, does God give two hoots about who is Christian vs. who is Muslim vs. who is Jewish? If there is only one "right" religion, then a lot of people are going to get screwed anyway.

Does that make their government evil? It depends on their actions and decisions while on the job. Personally, I don't care if my senator goes and hires a hooker in his off time, or decides to roll around naked in wheatfields, or is a born again Wiccan, or what... as long as their office policies in office are sound, and do not violate my basic rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, they can do whatever the heck they like. Personally, I think Clinton was a good president, and couldn't care less about the Monica Lewinsky thing. It's his marriage, his karma, and it had nothing to do with his domestic or foreign policy. If, however, he brought a law into office saying that fellatio did not constitude infidelity in marriage, I would take serious issue with that.

I'm not sure if this makes much sense, but basically I'm saying as long as their personal lives and professional lives do not mix much, then no, I don't think some bats in the belfry make a government evil.

Originally posted by syntaxer
When you mention "no harm" regarding a government like America trying to achieve the objective of sole NWO ownership of the planet we call Earth, are you referring to it's current foreign policy of spreading democracy by Military force?

Hey, peace by any means neccessary, right? Hooray Freedom!

Err... I disagree with Administration's decision to wage the Iraq war.

However, I don't think our invading the same country twice in a 12 year period constitutes a crusade of spreading democracy across the globe via military force. Perhaps that makes me naive, but I'm pretty sure we'd need to pick some more numerous and important targets first...

Besides, who needs military force to spread democracy when the market forces of capitalism do it for us?

Originally posted by syntaxer
If you haven't noticed the Bilderbergs ARE the NWO and their currently discussing ways to rule the world over tea 'n biscuits..

So? I discuss ways to rule the world over an internet forum, blogs, or on the couch in my living room, or in the tool shed while repairing something, or outside on a smoke break...basically if there's someone interested in talking about a better way to rule the world, I'm up for the conversation. I blatantly advertise the fact that I want to be World Dictator. Does that make me anything even remotely approaching that title? Ask the potato rations.

The Bilderbergs specifically, no. I'll go read up on them though. If they're the upper echelon of world domination they sound like the sort of people I need to be rubbing elbows with.

The bible and the NWO is already being covered here;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by infinite
The bible and the NWO is already being covered here;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

theLibra, I'll place my response on that thread.

I doubt i would flat out refuse, if i felt i could do some good, or help prevent the whole thing somehow by becoming part of it for a little while, then i guess i would. The ball seems to be well and truelly rolling now though, so i doubt i would be able to achieve much.
If i felt no good would come of it, then i would definitly refuse. I don't want to contribute to any wrong doing and evil on a major scale. I would much prefer to continue living my life as ethically as i can.

I'm wondering about a possibility that I don't know if it's been discussed or not (sorry there are like thousands of topics in this forum, and I have a job to go to) I think the "Powers that Be" will create a New World Order BECAUSE it's in the bible. I think they will try their best to follow it to a tee. I mean isn't that a brillant move to create what the bible says so that non-believers of the bible will blow it off and not worry and believers will not worry because the bible tells them everything will work out in the end when in actuality it may not.

But then again to think even deeper, what if they create exactly what the bible says on purpose, but that is how god intended it to happen?

And about the "Mark of the Beast" it exists it is called the verichip and people have taken it (voluntarily for now of course)







[edit on 11-6-2005 by NoJustice]

Yeah, don't worry, they will tell you EXACTLY what they have in store for you if you go work for them. So much better than being a slave, you know, taking orders, and having to follow them in fear of death.

If you want a position of power, you have to be ready to step on some people. If not, there is somebody who IS willing to do so, and they will get it.

Its not part time work, for the NWO. You will have to ALWAYS do your part, whether it be as a spy against the common people, or slave 'master' in the form of Office Manager etc.

And so, umm, No. I think I would rather live and die with good people, thank you very much.

I would do exactly what I'm doing now. I'd live my life, and walk my path.

Geez, I never realized how few Americans looked at their money! NOS (NWO) is in effect, growing stronger with every generation, all this talk of automobiles and luxury and vice, that proves it. You are the man if you want to be. You are a slave if that's your comfort zone.

If you want to be a noble hero, you'll fight whatever dragon presents itself. Remember when you were a kid and your parents told you that you could be whatever you wanted to be, it was true. Thing is, we don't always understand our own decisions, and a lot of people aren't honest with themselves about what they want.

Christianity was designed as a mantle to shield the bearer against fear of death, but some men a long time ago twisted the dogma to inspire fear instead, and used that to their own ends. Modern Christianity is in many cases a self deception, the religious have their own internal battles, and I very much doubt if the NWO will see a great Christian uprising to stop them. Many self professed Christians are mired deeper in this culture of money and power than anyone.

I think the NWO guys had great intentions, and a cold, calculating perception of the world. But maybe they were deceiving themselves. I have nothing against people who want to try to create order, it's a losing battle, but there's nobility in it, in a pushing-a-rock-up-an-endless-hill sort of way. According to the popular perception of the NWO they want to subdue chaos, they want to fundamentally change the operating system to insure their own comfort at our expense.

Or do they? Maybe what they really want is to bring about total chaos, to slay Order. Maybe the double talk is in full effect, and the NWO will bring nothing but chaos. Maybe they built the tower just to topple it, sort of a nod and a wink at God. My point is, do you really know for sure?

I'll play it by ear myself, I suggest everyone do the same. Don't assume you know what's going on, consider the sources of our 'knowledge' and apply a little skepticism.

Oh, and another thing. What if it their plan is all about creating luxury and security for themselves at our expense, the little guys. So what? Let them build their facilities, let them create the infrastructure, and then let the people take it back if that's what they want to do. Success is precisely proportional to effort. Anybody curious why America's in bad shape? Americans. How about Brazil? Brazillians. Haiti? Rwanda? Pick a nation! We could have been living in paradise a long time ago, but we're chronically unfit for and unappreciative of the good life.

Our lives will change for the better..when we do!






[edit on 13-6-2005 by WyrdeOne]

I thought about what to ansewer. I've decieded that, my decision to join or not, will be based on the information that I have at the time of the offer.

It is hard for me to say that I will join an organization, that I don't know for sure if they exist.

I know my answer is the "on the fence" type, and I am not just looking for the greener grass here. I have no factual information at this time to make a decision that I am willing to live with forever.


Cheers

Whether they morally deserve their position atop the pyramid or not, the fact is they organized their efforts into a successfull strategy that landed them on top of the pyramid. it might be the most sinister trick ever developed, but such is allowed with free agency. The real revolution will take place when we remove the race-to-the-top of the pyramid from our human psyche. I liked this:

by Wyrdeone; Oh, and another thing. What if it their plan is all about creating luxury and security for themselves at our expense, the little guys. So what? Let them build their facilities, let them create the infrastructure, and then let the people take it back if that's what they want to do. Success is precisely proportional to effort. Anybody curious why America's in bad shape? Americans. How about Brazil? Brazillians. Haiti? Rwanda? Pick a nation! We could have been living in paradise a long time ago, but we're chronically unfit for and unappreciative of the good life

Maybe responsibility really belongs in the hands of those who take it (nevermind how imorally)?

So what are you? A realist or an idealist? - The follow up question is 'how much change can the individual evoke?'

Those of you who know the innerworkings of this conspiracy and are watching it unfold as I am know their moment of truth is coming.

NWO will never work becouse it is parasitical in nature and it goes against all natural principles. It is just a matter of time before it crumbles into dust.

This whole idea of controlling entire world and its resources sickens me to say the least. People, willing to get rich at our planets expense or at the expense of other people should be executed.

And its not a question of joining, were all in it already....the question should be....do you want out yet?

reply to post by Odium


The real question on my mind, is there more than one NWO?

I mean what if one side is fighting for world peace and one side fighting for power?

Imagine: a world similiar to the one we live in but that is run by a government faction like the UN. And that till has a UN in place to create a balance. Where we are who we choose to be.

So if there are in fact two parties competing for NWO, the question to ask yourself is, which side are you on?

One love and Peace or You keep what you kill.