Iraq War tanks US All-Volunteer Force

The all-volunteer force is running out of steam in the face of a prolonged, pointless war in Iraq.


Next year, the Army will need 80,000 replacements for activeduty soldiers serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. If current recruiting trends hold, the service may have less than 8,000 recruits ready for basic training.

According to USA Today, Rochelle "projected the service will have only half the number of recruits ready for 2006 than it did this year, when it had an unusually low number of recruits signed up in advance."

www.theledger.com.../20050603/NEWS/506030341/1036


The US has to start on an endgame for Iraq, or it's going to lose the All Volunteer Force. The US can't go to the draft system because conscription compared to the AVF system of professional soldiers is nearly useless. US officers would hate a draft army and so would NCOs.

Yeah well that's probably what's going to happen. A draft and a stop loss stop move and they'll probably call back a bunch of inactive reserves. It sucks but its what's probably going to happen.

Ok, what is so hard about training those Iraqi troops? America is getting sicker of this war every day and they wish for their troops to come home.

I hope that they make even more progress on the Iraqi troops. Good progress has already been made but we're still not there yet.

Sadaam is gone. Give the Iraqis back their country. They only want us there to kill us. Put the troops on our own borders.

Originally posted by Dances With Angels
Ok, what is so hard about training those Iraqi troops? America is getting sicker of this war every day and they wish for their troops to come home.

I hope that they make even more progress on the Iraqi troops. Good progress has already been made but we're still not there yet.

No we're not there yet concerning training their troops so we can come home beacuse apparently....the insurgents don't want us to leave....which is really confusing....

They're hindering our efforts in training troops (mainly by scaring them off) causing our stay to be longer than it should be.

I remember mister DICK Chaney saying USA presence in Iraqi until 2009 - which goes hand in hand with predictions that in 2010-12 natural resources in this area will be depleted.

So much for Democracy and Liberty.

Originally posted by Souljah

So much for Democracy and Liberty.

yep lets accept Osama's Islamic Theocracy Empire, its good for those who believe in Islam, infidels must die if they refuse this new empire.

i remember reading an article about increasing the ratio of Nat'l guard to reg army troops in iraq. as this happens, i think you will see more and more questioning and discontent in the ranks. once a unit is gven a warning order ( a notice that they will be activated) stop loss goes into effect.

the military has changed the structure of the forces. forces are being changed to what they call 'units of action' or 'units of execution'. as more and more Gaurd units get re-organized into this, they will used in iraq...or where ever.

the MN Nat'l gaurd will be the first gaurd unit to under go this transformation. over 1000 troops were in bosnia and have been back for almost 1 year and now they been informed that they will be activated AGAIN in mid 2006. for some this will be thier 2nd or 3rd deployment. and the deployment are getting longer and longer. tech, gaurd troops are mobilized, then train for up to 6 months and THEN start the deployment.....14, 16, 18 month deployment are getting to be the norm. what impact would this have on your life? they take it stowicly but, they are not that happy about it. they don't say anything because they have made a carrer of the gaurd or they have alot of time and govt $$ tied up in school...and you do sign a contract that you can't really get out of. most people in the gaurds are there for the $$ for school and did not want to be in the reg army. how long before the camels back breaks?

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by Souljah

So much for Democracy and Liberty.

yep lets accept Osama's Islamic Theocracy Empire, its good for those who believe in Islam, infidels must die if they refuse this new empire.

Osama has no empire. Has no country. You are living in a brain washed delusion.

yep lets accept Osama's Islamic Theocracy Empire, its good for those who believe in Islam, infidels must die if they refuse this new empire.

A lot of us are of the opinion that the Iraq war played directly into the plans of OBL, and has done nothing but bolster Al Quaeda's recruiting efforts. We are not fighting terrorism in Iraq, we are manufacturing new terrorists.

Saddam's regime, as loathsome as it was, was one of secular Arab nationalists, not Wahhabiist Sunni fundamentalists. We actually took one of OBL's enemies out of the picture for him, at the same time driving Iraq's Sunni population right into the hands of the fundamentalists, lending credibility to OBL and his minions, and walking right into a carefully laid bear trap (that's a Russian bear, kids) that will tie down the bulk of the US's available ground troops for years to come.

Iraq was a collossal strategic blunder, a disaster for the US .mil, a disaster for US "soft power", and a hugely expensive one at that. For the price we paid to go to Iraq, we could have put men on Mars, or started mining asteroids, or God knows what else.

Not everyone who opposes this war does so because they "hate America" (puh-leeez) or because they're a flower power hippie pacifist. Some of us oppose it because it was just a dumb strategic move, period.

[edit on 6/7/05 by xmotex]

I think the attitude of the Iraqis towards the occupation and the insurgents is fiarly well summed up by the interview with a Iraqi on Channel 4 news tonight (I rthink he mnay have been a doctor). When asked about a car bombing today he refered to the suicide bombers as Martyrs. Pretty telling really!

Originally posted by groingrinder
Sadaam is gone. Give the Iraqis back their country. They only want us there to kill us. Put the troops on our own borders.

But first all the countries involved in blowing up the cities should rebuild Iraq. Its in a hell of a worse state than before.

The Iraqis may have not wanted SH in power, but they sure as hell didn't want their infrastructure destroyed.

And while they are at it, employ Iraqis to do the building work, not US and UK companies.

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by Souljah

So much for Democracy and Liberty.

yep lets accept Osama's Islamic Theocracy Empire, its good for those who believe in Islam, infidels must die if they refuse this new empire.

You do realize that it was Saddam in Iraq, and that OBL and Saddam were not really friends. The US did a favour for OBL by removing someone that wouldn't have allowed OBL or any Islamist function around him. Now that he is gone, the radical islamic's are able to grow till their little hearts are content. Thanks GW!!!

America has to make some hard decisions. Right now people want their cake and to eat it to. This can't go on forever.

If America continues to fight this kindler gentler war we are ultimately going to lose. That doesn't mean the Muslims are going to take us over but it does mean life in America is going to radically change. If the war continues as is:

Parents will talk their kids out of military service until we reach the point where either we implement a draft or our conventional force starts to lose on the battlefield because they are simply spread to thin.

If taxes aren't raised to finance this war the government will continue to hemorrage away massive amounts of money until the dollar is debased and the economy collapses. The Soviet Union collapsed under the cost of a military it couldn't afford. Our social spending and military spending can not be sustained long term. We are on the way to economic collapse if things continue down the current path.

If we fail to secure our borders and halt immigration of those who will eventually spread terrorism inside America it is only a question of time before we suffer a devastating nuclear or biological attack within our borders. When that happens we'll lose our rights as people cry for security at all cost. You can do the math also and see the government isn't going to be able to bail us out with a million dollar bonus to the family of the dead like they did after 9/11. $1,000,000 x 4,000 people is a lot of money but $1,000,000 x 100,000 people is simply impossible even for the USA.

We need to be lining up the insurgents and their sympathizers and shooting them without trial so that people are living in fear of us so they'll do whatever we tell them so we can leave as rapidly as possible. We need to nuke those Iranian nuclear facilities. If we fail to take these steps we face a long war of attrition which will ultimately bankrupt this nation or transform us into a dictatorship just like all the other empires.

Life in America is going to change for the worse. It's just a question of time before the reality of the world we live in slaps us in the face. Despite everything that has happened we are still living on the credit of our children that is rapidly running out and telling ourselves we live in a politically correct world that in reality only exist in our own minds. Our children are going to hate us since we mortgaged their future, will put them in indentured servitude to America's creditors, and will provide them no securrity for all we spent.

Originally posted by antelope
America has to make some hard decisions. Right now people want their cake and to eat it to. This can't go on forever.

If America continues to fight this kindler gentler war we are ultimately going to lose. That doesn't mean the Muslims are going to take us over but it does mean life in America is going to radically change. If the war continues as is:

Parents will talk their kids out of military service until we reach the point where either we implement a draft or our conventional force starts to lose on the battlefield because they are simply spread to thin.

If taxes aren't raised to finance this war the government will continue to hemorrage away massive amounts of money until the dollar is debased and the economy collapses. The Soviet Union collapsed under the cost of a military it couldn't afford. Our social spending and military spending can not be sustained long term. We are on the way to economic collapse if things continue down the current path.

If we fail to secure our borders and halt immigration of those who will eventually spread terrorism inside America it is only a question of time before we suffer a devastating nuclear or biological attack within our borders. When that happens we'll lose our rights as people cry for security at all cost. You can do the math also and see the government isn't going to be able to bail us out with a million dollar bonus to the family of the dead like they did after 9/11. $1,000,000 x 4,000 people is a lot of money but $1,000,000 x 100,000 people is simply impossible even for the USA.

We need to be lining up the insurgents and their sympathizers and shooting them without trial so that people are living in fear of us so they'll do whatever we tell them so we can leave as rapidly as possible. We need to nuke those Iranian nuclear facilities. If we fail to take these steps we face a long war of attrition which will ultimately bankrupt this nation or transform us into a dictatorship just like all the other empires.

Life in America is going to change for the worse. It's just a question of time before the reality of the world we live in slaps us in the face. Despite everything that has happened we are still living on the credit of our children that is rapidly running out and telling ourselves we live in a politically correct world that in reality only exist in our own minds. Our children are going to hate us since we mortgaged their future, will put them in indentured servitude to America's creditors, and will provide them no securrity for all we spent.

Or, you guys could just stop killing people... Maybe that would be a nice start to others trying to kill you huh?

BTW - your entire post seems to be just fear mongering. What are you so afraid of? Can't fight?

Originally posted by Passer By

Or, you guys could just stop killing people... Maybe that would be a nice start to others trying to kill you huh?

BTW - your entire post seems to be just fear mongering. What are you so afraid of? Can't fight?

I did my fighting and killing in 1991 when this recent mess got started.

America's problems stem from us constantly trying to fix the world. Osama Bin Laden hates us because we stayed in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War. That's what happens when you fight a half hearted war. We are still at odds with North Korea because we never fought that war to victory either. Half measures and half victories mean wars will go on forever. Now we are in the same situation. Bush named the axis of evil back in 2001. Now here we are all these years later and the main sponsors of world wide terror and nuclear proliferation still exist.

If we pulled out of Iraq and left the world alone we could sit back and watch for the day that North Korea nukes South Korea, Iran nukes Israel, and Israel retaliates and slaughters tens of millions of Muslims. We can wait until the enemies of America give the terrorist a nuclear bomb whose detonation they will publically deplore as they laugh in their government offices.

Years ago we stuck a stick in a killer beehive. The bees aren't going to go back into the hive. At this point either the bees are going to kill themselves as they sting us or we are going to have to kill them all.

What am I afraid of: I am an economist by education but a former military officer. I know the way America operates can not be sustained. We act like we have the ability to write an unlimited supply of checks. In reality we don't. If we don't get the world house and our house in order soon enough we are going to collapse like the other empires that eventually couldn't afford to pay for the cost of maintaining the empire.

Originally posted by Passer By
Or, you guys could just stop killing people... Maybe that would be a nice start to others trying to kill you huh?

BTW - your entire post seems to be just fear mongering. What are you so afraid of? Can't fight?

wish we could stop killing, but since these Muslims view us as infidels and they say Allah told them to wipe out the non-muslims and only Islam rules the world, u cant do that, that be like a black person trying to persuade the KKK members to stop hating.

Originally posted by antelope

Originally posted by Passer By

Or, you guys could just stop killing people... Maybe that would be a nice start to others trying to kill you huh?

BTW - your entire post seems to be just fear mongering. What are you so afraid of? Can't fight?

I did my fighting and killing in 1991 when this recent mess got started.

America's problems stem from us constantly trying to fix the world. Osama Bin Laden hates us because we stayed in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War. That's what happens when you fight a half hearted war. We are still at odds with North Korea because we never fought that war to victory either. Half measures and half victories mean wars will go on forever. Now we are in the same situation. Bush named the axis of evil back in 2001. Now here we are all these years later and the main sponsors of world wide terror and nuclear proliferation still exist.

If we pulled out of Iraq and left the world alone we could sit back and watch for the day that North Korea nukes South Korea, Iran nukes Israel, and Israel retaliates and slaughters tens of millions of Muslims. We can wait until the enemies of America give the terrorist a nuclear bomb whose detonation they will publically deplore as they laugh in their government offices.

Years ago we stuck a stick in a killer beehive. The bees aren't going to go back into the hive. At this point either the bees are going to kill themselves as they sting us or we are going to have to kill them all.

What am I afraid of: I am an economist by education but a former military officer. I know the way America operates can not be sustained. We act like we have the ability to write an unlimited supply of checks. In reality we don't. If we don't get the world house and our house in order soon enough we are going to collapse like the other empires that eventually couldn't afford to pay for the cost of maintaining the empire.

Well I am not an economist, nor have I fought in a war - houwever, it seems to me that OBL was a threat long before anything in the Gulf war - To blame him or anything else on that time seems a little bit of a misdirection. Didn't Ollie North call him a dangerous man during the Iran contra scandle?

OBL and all islamic extermists(and others that share similar feelings on the western culture but aren't really ready to kill for it) are against the blatently materialistic nature of your lifestyle -- it isn't your freedom, for you have none(the problem with being materialistic is that you are only free until someone decides to buy you and whomever bought your debt, owns you. So who owns America's debt? - but this is another rant LOL), it is the notion that everything is for a price.

IMO only, and once again I am not now or every have been an expert(nor played one on TV) but to place blame for America's problems on anyone other than an overtly agressive american policy is ubsurd, and looking for external solutions to what is fundimentally an internal problem will only continue the farce. I am not anti america, but I do think that many need to really think about this cause and effect thing and just play it out. You can't cry foul when you start something and others are willing to finish it. It is best not to start anything in the first place, and if it has already started it is best just to back out.

I know the president won't to save face, but how many more good, hard working American soldiers who vowed to give their lives for the defense of America, have to die for an illegal war, that has more to do with profits and business than it does about freedom, before the president and those who support him get the picture?

Originally posted by Passer By
IMO only, and once again I am not now or every have been an expert(nor played one on TV) but to place blame for America's problems on anyone other than an overtly agressive american policy is ubsurd, and looking for external solutions to what is fundimentally an internal problem will only continue the farce. I am not anti america, but I do think that many need to really think about this cause and effect thing and just play it out. You can't cry foul when you start something and others are willing to finish it. It is best not to start anything in the first place, and if it has already started it is best just to back out.

I agree with you. In the end it does come down to how vou view America's role in the world. For good reason we stick our nose in other nations affairs. Then we find ourselves constantly in conflict.

The world is very much like a poor neighborhood. You may be a good person but every day you can see some neighbors who rob other people, sell their daughter as a prostitute, and sell drugs. You are big and strong so everyone is scared of you. There are no cops. You hate to see what happens so you beat up the drug dealer and tell him to stop. Later you beat of the father of the girl who is used as a prostitute. Eventually all the bad people hate you and decide you are the neighborhoods problem. Now they are gunning for you. This is are our world. Maybe we would be at peace today if we didn't help Kuwait, Israel, South Vietnam, South Korea, etc. Maybe if we didn't help France and Britain in World War I we wouldn't have helped set the stage for World War II.

The problem now is that its hard to expect the bad guys to leave you alone once you kicked in their door even if now you realize you should have ignored them in the first place.

Personal survival even as a nation sometimes means taking the path of moral cowardice. America is filled with people who want to change the injustice of the world but few who actually would sacrifice themselves, their children, or their standard of living to do it. As a result we get what we see today: A war fought in a half ass manner to placate the do gooders and those who demand action but no draft or tax increase to man or fund the war. In the end America needs to decide whether we are going to do what it takes to win or simply to shut this war down and live in a world that doesn't live up to the high ideals we talk about.

Those that think you can change the world through non-violence fail to understand that this only works in a situation where the oppressor has some kind of moral compass that can be influenced by your actions. When Gandi or MLK practiced non-violence they knew that the oppressor was not going to slaughter all those involved. As we saw in the Prague Spring, Tiannamen, the post Gulf War Iraqi uprising, and the Syrian uprising those governments who can slaughter their own citizens rapidly in such cases usually have no problem staying in power for long periods of time. These regimes when they do collapse come down in violence not peace.

Very nice post.

I will respond more fully later, but let me ask you this for now; How much of what you see, drug dealers, prostitutes, bad people, are merely the effects of a similar(maybe identical?) cause. Now if that cause is really brought on by the bully - then has there really been any saving?

cheers...