HR-1528 Sensenbrunner Taking Away Your Rights !!! Take Action Now

Man am I ever glad I live in Canada. It seems that the US is going to "HELL in a handbasket". I wonder how many Americans will apply for residence status in the next 4 years. All the draft dodgers and potheads will head for Canada. We seem to be on the road to legalization here. It's hypocritical of the government to condone the use of tobacco and alcohol(whick I'm fond of both) and ban marijuana which is far less dangerous for you than the above. How many potheads do you hear about that crashed a car and killed people or a fight outside a bar between two potheads. If anything you would think the US gov't would condone the use of pot to subdue the masses and make them more lathargic and easier to control.

It's time to be realistic with this issue. If you're going to make it this hard to get pot then it's time to reconsider alcohol and tobacco. However banning those two substances would for sure lead to a civil war.

Well, All I have is about 15-20 people who have used it for everything. I simply don''t use any painkillers anymore other than MJ and I was hooked on T3's for a bit. Not one girl I know uses either advil or Midol anymore instead chosing to use MJ.

Because - it is FREE.

Remember that the cost of MJ is primarily because of the illegality of it. I don't personally grow myself, but I have, and I know a network of about 15 people that grow just out of the city. I get it freely, as such I pass it off freely.

If it wasn't illegal, and was allowed to grow as nature intended - it would be freely available to anyone that wanted it. Because of the institutional cruelity our soicety seems to be unable to let go of it, and while we are trying to paint a new picture for society, it is important that we ignore the previous frames.

At least in my opinion.

I'm not disputing that it should be decriminalized and free , or even that it has a valid medicinal use. It's just not the panacea we'd like it to be. A lot of the medicinal value does indeed come from the psychological benefits, and whilst these should by no means be minimized, it doesn't change the basic premise that there are things available that help with pain syndromes and have the bonus of physical agent being present to help with inflammation, etc.

Part of the problem that makes it a grey area for many legislators is that it can be psychologically "addictive" (and I hate using that word, believe me). If someone is prone to (for example) alcohol or narcotics addiction, then they do stand a much higher chance of becoming psychologically dependent on MJ. It's not physically addictive, but the psychological pull can be very, very strong. The same can be said for any stimulant or mind-altering substance.

The cost isn't an issue, really - if it were controlled or legalized, then costs would inevitably drop. Quality would probably be much higher, too - pardon the pun.

I would be delighted to see MJ decriminalized. But there are just too many reasons "why not" (and I think most would fall under "dubious excuses", really) for at least the US to go against the grain and make moves towards legalization.

This bill is rife with the potential for selective enforcement. Because let's face it everyone knows someone who does drugs.... And don't bother writing back just to say you don't. Because you do, so think about it, this law will make every single US citizen able to be imprisoned at any time for two years.
Do we really want a group of people who have proven themselves this recklessly irresponsible so many times having that kind of power over us?

Originally posted by Sugarlump
... so think about it, this law will make every single US citizen able to be imprisoned at any time for two years.
Do we really want a (Our Government) who have proven themselves this recklessly irresponsible so many times having that kind of power over us?

Thats exactly how they will use it, and they pass it off under the guise of protecting american's most vulnerable!

Well... they did build all of those prison camps all accross the country, and everyone was wondering what they were going to do with them...


www.abovetopsecret.com...



Suprise, Suprise ... they planned on actually using them!

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Well, All I have is about 15-20 people who have used it for everything. I simply don''t use any painkillers anymore other than MJ and I was hooked on T3's for a bit. Not one girl I know uses either advil or Midol anymore instead chosing to use MJ.

Because - it is FREE.

Remember that the cost of MJ is primarily because of the illegality of it. I don't personally grow myself, but I have, and I know a network of about 15 people that grow just out of the city. I get it freely, as such I pass it off freely.

If it wasn't illegal, and was allowed to grow as nature intended - it would be freely available to anyone that wanted it. Because of the institutional cruelity our soicety seems to be unable to let go of it, and while we are trying to paint a new picture for society, it is important that we ignore the previous frames.

At least in my opinion.

I'm not disputing that it should be decriminalized and free

, or even that it has a valid medicinal use. It's just not the panacea we'd like it to be. A lot of the medicinal value does indeed come from the psychological benefits, and whilst these should by no means be minimized, it doesn't change the basic premise that there are things available that help with pain syndromes and have the bonus of physical agent being present to help with inflammation, etc.

Part of the problem that makes it a grey area for many legislators is that it can be psychologically "addictive" (and I hate using that word, believe me). If someone is prone to (for example) alcohol or narcotics addiction, then they do stand a much higher chance of becoming psychologically dependent on MJ. It's not physically addictive, but the psychological pull can be very, very strong. The same can be said for any stimulant or mind-altering substance.

The cost isn't an issue, really - if it were controlled or legalized, then costs would inevitably drop. Quality would probably be much higher, too - pardon the pun.

I would be delighted to see MJ decriminalized. But there are just too many reasons "why not" (and I think most would fall under "dubious excuses", really) for at least the US to go against the grain and make moves towards legalization.

AGreed that we are both on the same side(Hopefully every human is, who really wants to see people suffer?) the discussion is the relative merits of it. I can see, and do agree with you points on inflamation. Now before we go ruining a good topic with agreeing with each other, and seeing as it looks like you have studied the issue, let me throw this out there and tell me what you think....

IMO we are losing the health war because we are focused on teh individual battles instead of the overall war - metaphorically. Medical MJ is something I think a lot of people are willing to let go for those with a real "need", but IMO this is an injustice because we are accepting this as an "allowance", which indirectly legitimazes the initial contriban.

Medical MJ should be legal because MJ should be legal*, the reason it isn't was/is a fraud and can be proved. Any discussion on it's legal status could be made a new and from what I have seen, I would say it would fall under the line of alcohol or tobacco.

I wish I could think(like sane people do ) that drug companies are actively trying to find the cures for the diseases that ill us. However, when you see corperations that make less than 1/2 of 1% of what drug corperations make freely breaking the rules/laws/best public interests for the lust of greed, it is hard not to assume the same thing will happen to creatures of the same nature.

America is fighting a 2 front war...War on Drugs/War against Terror

History has proven that this is a unwinnable situation

As long as the right wing republicans control both the white house/congress and it seems the courts...we are F%$&ed! One right after another will/and is bein taken away...

They will not addmit that the war on drugs is a complete and utter failure....get real people if you can't keep drugs out of prisons....How are you gonna keep them off the streets....

Remeber folks the first civil war in america was because of state rights....if the economy crashes in america [GM announced today they are laying off 25,000 people]....I believe that another civil war is right around the corner....there are like 2.7 million american locked up in prison for non-violent drug related "crimes"......please give me a break where does it read in the constitution that you have to be and act christian to be free in America??????

I hope it doesn't get worst before it gets better...but im not holding my breath

Can you see future road blocks for drug testing....those positive will get ushered strait to jail

i can

I live in Toronto, so we are incredibly free compared to people a few hundred miles down the road. I just couldn't imagine a police officer thinking a J is a big thing when every night there is a shooting or stabbing somewhere. It is just amazing to me. What I find sad is that they only real crimes you ever see is when someone is trying to rob a grower for the cash and whatnot. MJ always takes the fall, yet it never dawns on the reporters that if it wasn't illegal in the first place some shadey dude wouldn't have been growing it for profit. Instead we could either grow it ourself's for home consumption or have the government hire qualified people to do it for them(Not the bozo's last time).

It is sad for me when I think that people are refused to use a plant that has been used by man since man has been, all because of some small minority of people who don't do anything for you other than talking your money and killing innocent people in your name.

However, I suppose that is another story.

Originally posted by LDragonFire

America is fighting a 2 front war...War on Drugs/War against Terror
History has proven that this is a unwinnable situation

....there are like 2.7 million american locked up in prison for non-violent drug related "crimes"......please give me a break where does it read in the constitution that you have to be and act christian to be free in America??????

i can

That was very well put! You have earned my second of three WAY ABOVE TOP SECRET Vote for this month! Thank you for adding to my argument!

I'm generally in agreement, Passer By. When you take something that's already present and try to make it illegal, you're automatically setting up an ideal breeding ground for violence and gang-like warfare. Remember prohibition? That was a huge mistake, and it's a huge mistake now to keep throwing MJ users in prison for smoking a few joints. You're also setting up thousands of kids who will be attracted solely by the "illicit" status, who want to try something because it's not allowed.

If it were to be decriminalized, we'd be able to control and tax MJ (and in doing so would probably balance the budget forever in the process), give patients access to a valid treatment, and make it far less likely that children would have access. Treat it like tobacco or alcohol - for adult use only, and a DUI would include being under the influence of MJ*.

Look at Amsterdam - whilst MJ is not technically legal (the government tolerates the use, but it's not really "legal"), there is a much lower crime rate (by all methods of calculation) in general, including violent crimes.

That said, Amsterdam is also home to a fantastic sex museum, and you can rent callgirls simply walking into their shopfront - surprise surprise, there's a much lower sex-crime rate, too. But I digress. There's something to be said for not getting your knickers in a twist about such things, non?



* - The problem I see there is that in some people, MJ stays in the cells for up to 30 days after it's been ingested; this means that your urinalysis can come up positive three weeks after you smoked, and this might be enough to convict you of a DUI, however unfairly. If only we knew how to adequately and reliably find out when a person smoked up...

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
When you take something that's already present and try to make it illegal, you're automatically setting up an ideal breeding ground for violence and gang-like warfare. Remember prohibition?

Great Point! This is a modern day prohibition, only worse... they plan on throwing all of the potheads in jail! and they just built all of those prison camps! time to use them!

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
If it were to be decriminalized, we'd be able to control and tax MJ (and in doing so would probably balance the budget forever in the process

I will not pay tax on something natural, i will just get a bunch of land in NW America and grow it myself!

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Look at Amsterdam - whilst MJ is not technically legal (the government tolerates the use, but it's not really "legal"), there is a much lower crime rate (by all methods of calculation) in general, including violent crimes.

That said, Amsterdam is also home to a fantastic sex museum, and you can rent callgirls simply walking into their shopfront - surprise surprise, there's a much lower sex-crime rate, too.

If Amsterdam has a lower crime rate ... then they must be doing something right!



Great PoinT !!!


CONGRATULATIONS! TINKLEFLOWER you win my WAY ABOVE VOTE for the MONTH! Way to go!



[edit on 8-6-2005 by Where2Hide2006]

[edit on 8-6-2005 by Where2Hide2006]

Aw dude, now I'm all blushy and giggly and embarassed and stuff

Thank you though - it's nice to know my post was appreciated

To keep with the topic (kind of. *cough*)....has anyone else been to Amsterdam?

If so, did you observe any cultural/societal differences?

I personally don't give a rat's behind if someone smokes weed in the privacy of their own home, just so long as they don't get behind the wheel when they're high. Though I don't encourage anyone to smoke it.

You know caffeine is considered by some to be a drug?

You better report me--I'm drinking Mountain Dew!

Hey--can we turn in Clinton? Or Bush?

Originally posted by Amethyst
I personally don't give a rat's behind if someone smokes weed in the privacy of their own home, just so long as they don't get behind the wheel when they're high. Though I don't encourage anyone to smoke it.

You know caffeine is considered by some to be a drug?

You better report me--I'm drinking Mountain Dew!

Hey--can we turn in Clinton? Or Bush?

That's cos technically, caffeine IS a drug.

All us Dewskies and Coffeenies are terrible, evil drug addicts, yanno

Thankfully the prison system is already grossly overstressed. Otherwise you and I could find ourselves being cell-mates

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Originally posted by Amethyst
I personally don't give a rat's behind if someone smokes weed in the privacy of their own home, just so long as they don't get behind the wheel when they're high. Though I don't encourage anyone to smoke it.

You know caffeine is considered by some to be a drug?

You better report me--I'm drinking Mountain Dew!

Hey--can we turn in Clinton? Or Bush?

That's cos technically, caffeine IS a drug.

All us Dewskies and Coffeenies are terrible, evil drug addicts, yanno

Thankfully the prison system is already grossly overstressed. Otherwise you and I could find ourselves being cell-mates

Only drinking it because I didn't get to sleep until 12:30 this morning and my 3-year-old woke me up at 6! I'm tired!

BTW love your avatar! Yes, our congressmen ARE full of it!!!

I just wanted to add, that all of this DRAFT talk has lead me to believe that one possible use for this law will be to lock up anyone who is "draft dodging" or protesting against the administration for a 2 year Federal sentence, without due process, and with out any questions. Also the Patriot Act 2 will allow the FBI to write their own supena's without consulting a judge... the "home inspections" are coming... make sure you have your papers in order and good luck!




Write to your congressman/woman to oppose this new bill now, before it becomes Law.

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
.. make sure you have your papers in order and good luck!

Now when you say papers do you mean zig's? Players? Hemp based? I have some nice corn paper's as well, not to mention your usual blunts.

Man, every AMerican should be out there in focrce to try and stop this. Doesn't anyone see how their freedoms are being taken away?

Originally posted by Passer By

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
.. make sure you have your papers in order and good luck!

Now when you say papers do you mean zig's? Players? Hemp based? I have some nice corn paper's as well, not to mention your usual blunts.

Man, every AMerican should be out there in focrce to try and stop this. Doesn't anyone see how their freedoms are being taken away?

Hey, some of us do protest....you've no idea how many nice little responses I get from various Congresspersons relating to various issues....

If nothing else, they make great paper aeroplanes.

Sadly, the paper is generally too thick to use for..uh..anything...."useful". Nudge nudge.


But yes - there are some paid up members of NORML here, amongst others.

There is no way in hell this bill will pass. First off they have tried mandatory sentencing for drug offence and found it didn’t work it just filled up the system. This law is to radical even for republicans I can’t see it passing.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Hey, some of us do protest....you've no idea how many nice little responses I get from various Congresspersons relating to various issues....

If nothing else, they make great paper aeroplanes.

Sadly, the paper is generally too thick to use for..uh..anything...."useful". Nudge nudge.


But yes - there are some paid up members of NORML here, amongst others.

I tried lining my cat's litter box with those. He refused to use it. Said it would be redundant.

.
To force neighbors to rat each other out like NAZIs shows just how horrible the US is becoming. To think that neighbors will not of their own accord make a senisble judgement whether someone is a great risk or not and take appropriate actions, shows just how far this has gone and is expected to go.

A police state is for control freak losers.
They over the long run can not stand up against their own weight and collapse.
In the meantime though the society pays the price.

It wrents the fabric of society, by tearing the unwritten social contract to one another.

This law sounds to require you to be a snitch, a stoolie.

Remember the McCarthy hearings?
Where to protect yourself you had to rat out others?
Remember all the false accusations of communists and destroyed careers and lives from that travesty of this nation?

Change the term communist to terrorist or drug dealer and now you will have the Sensebrunner hearings.

The spanish inquisition for our times and the new millenia.

Can somebody please shoot this guy?
.

[edit on 14-6-2005 by slank]