Can Ailens Manipulate Time?

Are you guys serious?!

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
I appreciate your point of view but do we have to discuss the entire UFO subject in every thread?

Ah, yes. Especially when the title of the tread is "Can Aliens Manipulate Time?"

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
You know there is as of yet no 'solid proof'. When there is you will know about. But there is more than enough evidence to convince most of the people here.

Is that supposed to be convincing?

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
All due respect, but cannot we not confine general 'proof' questions to their own threads?

When making statements like, "Aliens can however simulate the loss of time on a local basis with humans", you'd better be able to produce a document with the seal of the President of the United States of America on it; or else, you are just going to look like someone talking out of their rectum.

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
And chance we could make this idea one of the unwritten laws of ATS?

Hmm, you mean to have blanket immunity against any kind of questioning?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was adopted as the new motto.

Hey now, I was not being mean, I was asking a valid question for any topic-based forum. This whole place is dedicated to discussion of all things Alien so it is the perfect place to present and discuss the most basic of questions as well as more obscure topics.

So I have nothing against you, or anyone, asking for proof, or discussing in endless detail the merits, or lack thereof, of any arguement.

But if this question is Can Aliens manipulate Time, then the assumption that there are Aliens is certainly part of that. The debate over the existance of Aliens is another Thread.

The phrase 'stay on topic' is about this exact situation. I did not mean to offend you, and I probably could have worded my objection to your comment better, so I am sorry about that.


A.T
(-)

OK, to summarize, this was my post:

Originally posted by backtoreality

Originally posted by robertfenix
Aliens can however simulate the loss of time on a local basis with humans.

I'm not even going to get into how you know that aliens even exist....


But, what proof do you have that aliens are capable of this feat? Remember the key word here is proof, not speculation.

So, you see, my question was not whether or not aliens exist, it was what kind of proof the OP had that made him so confident that aliens were capable of time manipulation.


By the way, I'm still waiting for an answer...

If you believe as I do, that they are real and have some form of Gravitic control.

Then I say yes, they most likely have some degree of control over Time.

Although I think it is more likely when they are traveling , not necessarily , a time machine as such , that you might think of in fiction.

Just my opinion there.

Originally posted by backtoreality
Are you guys serious?!

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
I appreciate your point of view but do we have to discuss the entire UFO subject in every thread?

Ah, yes. Especially when the title of the tread is "Can Aliens Manipulate Time?"

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
You know there is as of yet no 'solid proof'. When there is you will know about. But there is more than enough evidence to convince most of the people here.

Is that supposed to be convincing?

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
All due respect, but cannot we not confine general 'proof' questions to their own threads?

When making statements like, "Aliens can however simulate the loss of time on a local basis with humans", you'd better be able to produce a document with the seal of the President of the United States of America on it; or else, you are just going to look like someone talking out of their rectum.

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
And chance we could make this idea one of the unwritten laws of ATS?

Hmm, you mean to have blanket immunity against any kind of questioning?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was adopted as the new motto.

it can now be witnessed (seen with peoples own two eyes) and yes, it is documented:

clusters of a billion molecules that are visible to the naked eye that are literally the same object in two places at the same time.

the same object in (count them) 2 places at the same time. This has already been done in numerous labs across America.

rent the movie "What The Bleep Do We Know", which is more like a informative documentary made by the most intelligent people on the planet, explaining the most complex things known to us in terms we all can understand, although you may need to watch portions of it more than once to really get what they are trying to say.

aliens manipulate time? if we can, what makes you believe nothing else in the entirety of the universe can't?

back to reality:

1) we've physically proven it can be done if can have the same object in 2 places at the same time, which has been accomplished.

2) you'd be absolutley ignorant to believe we are the most advanced technologic ally in the universe.

i'm not being negative about your input, valid arguements, and good points. It's just we've already proven, yes PROVEN time travel is possible if we can have the same object in 2 places at the same time.

Originally posted by backtoreality

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
what if past the singularity of a black hole a mirror image of our previous universe existed, but time had actually reversed.

remember that the black hole at the center of our own galaxy is wide enough to fit a few million of our solar systems back to back across it.

Sorry teacher, I have to put the brakes on this one. Anything that got even close to the event horizon--not even the singularity--would be ripped apart under unimaginably strong effects of gravity.

Let's look at the gravitational effects of something far, far weaker: a neutron star. Standing on the surface of one, a 6 foot man (oh, sorry, OR woman) would be reduced to the thickness of a sheet of paper.

but even if they were less than the thickness of a sheet of paper, since they are the observers ...... would they know that they were less than the thickness of a sheet of paper?

effects of gravity?

effects of a black hole?

curious fact:

if anyone were to shrink down to the size of an atom and try to reach out and grab on to and hold an electron, nuetron, or proton ..... um .....
no one would be able to do that considering they are not, i repeat, not particles of static matter.

electrons, neutrons, and protons are condensed energy, condensed light.

so as proof of my arguement i ask anyone here to prove that they know of any force in the universe great enough to condense light into sub-atomic super condensed biths of information that assume the form of "particles", aside from the gravitational pull of a black hole.

also, i would like to submit the fact that after the hubble telescope mirror imagery problem was rectified the worlds top astronomers and scientists utilized it to try to date the big bang theory.

they observed 186 different galaxies, and calculated thier trajectories using the doplar effect which is to say if the blue shift of the spectrum of light from the source is hitting us first, then the celestrial object is heading towards us, and if the red shift of the spectrum of light is hitting us first it is heading away from us.

so what did they find in the mid 90s?

179 gallaxies that surround us were at the same point of space which strongly suggests the big bang happened, however .....

our galaxy and the 6 galaxies closest to us (7 total) are heading in an intersecting path inconsistant with every other galaxy so far observed.

so, at least 179 (many more since observed, but results not made public) galaxies are forming a huge sphere, we are moving more towards the source of the big bang, rather than from it.

what has the gravitational pull (or push) to pull 7 galaxies in a different direction than all other known galaxies?

if pushed, and their is some "ether" or "dark matter" that has repelled us, we have yet to publicly identify it, but in the mean time, all we have is black holes and theoretical variations of black holes and the phenomina they produce to explain what could alter our small cluster of 7, while the rest of 179+ are spreading outward from a center we can only speculate we must not have been part of.

so, does that make our 7 galaxies older than 90+% of the universe?

or does that make us part of a big bang that happened at a seperate time and only seemed to jetison everything from it in 1 straight line, rather than outward from a center?

what are the facts telling us?

they are telling us that no one else but esoteric teacher can apply the brakes to esoteric teacher's mode of transportation. besides, no one else is authorized to drive my vehicle according to my contract with State Farm.

how can anyone put the brakes on for someone else, if they don't even know the road, and aren't looking at it in the first place?

obviously i loved the input anyways. without it i would not have been able to make this portion of contribution. i opoligize if i offend, my purpose behind it is only to get other people to look at the same thing we are all looking at, but just getting us to all look at it from different angles.

we are all obviously trying to put the same puzzle together, that makes all input relevant in my book.

please don't allow others to shut you up, or discourage any of you!

dialogue that feeds the brain and soul is what we are all here for, if not for this purpose, why are we here?

back to: Aleins and time travel. sorry i got a little (ok, alot) wide of the subject.

i do beleve this ,because some reported alien adaptions,the adapty says they got adapted from here and then when they returned they were in the same place and lik maybe the same time and they would of forgot most parts and then they will carry on until they reach home and relise what happend

ET,

Sorry I moved past your original comments, I got distracted a bit.

"all things being equal" and "cause and effect":

everything seems to have an opposing factor in the world we choose to create, so perhaps time as we see it also has its (for lack of a better term) "anti-time".

I do not believe that this duality is really the nature of the Universe, it is just a simple short hand for how we see things as humans.

We like simple, makes things easy. If you are talking about kinetic energy then there is an 'equal and opposite reaction' but there are many things which are not so simple. A human action has reactions to be sure, but the magnitude and very nature of the reactions are not usually equal.

Wiccans have a rule which I love called 'The Rule of Three'. It states that whatever you put out into the World will return 3 times. It teaches responsibilty which I am all for, but like most things is really a simple version of the real truth.

You cannot assign a number to reactions like this. Lets say you are a male, and you walk in the door and slap your mate, hard, right across the face.

Do you think that the fight that ensues is the total 'reaction'? You will suffer for this act every day for the rest of your life. If your mate leaves then you will be without someone who you love, that is a pain no one should have to endure. If your mate stays the reaction to that one event will color your life together, probably forever.

A basic example but it shows my point well.

I see time as one of those things we have sort of created to explain how we experience events and as such it is not really possible to alter it in any real way. The fact that we can teleport things still does not alter time but it certainly alters some major elements of science and I am sure will lead to some remarkable new discoveries.


A.T
(-)

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
ET,

Sorry I moved past your original comments, I got distracted a bit.


I see time as one of those things we have sort of created to explain how we experience events and as such it is not really possible to alter it in any real way. The fact that we can teleport things still does not alter time but it certainly alters some major elements of science and I am sure will lead to some remarkable new discoveries.


A.T
(-)

never be sorry, no distraction, everybody learning.

curious choice of words, the first sentence of the paragraph.

"I see time as one of those things we have sort of created to explain how we experience events ......."

could our perception of time be a learned behaviour? it must be.
consider how some animals (sea urchents/starfish) experience time in a much slower scale ......

intrigueing.

as for the teleportation thing, it was more than teleportation.
teleportation would have one object here and then it would be there.

what happened in the labs was the same particle in 2 places at the same time for an extended period of time, but as you sort of eluded to before hand, time may very well be a learned perception.

i believe i'll have to dwell on that for awhile. Alexander, i'm a bit drawn back by your statements. i like it.

[edit on 18/6/05 by Esoteric Teacher]

Great debate so far!! Love all your comments !!! Well it seems time travel IS now possible according to BBC reports:

news.bbc.co.uk...

So maybe Ailens CAN manipulate time !!!

all right. i'm going to break the rules of engangement here and just ask a question. whatever the true answer may be is not important. we are going to ask a question, not wait for the answer, and then just ask the next logical question.

stay with me, then brain dump it if you wish.

1) FACT: time travel is now proven to be possible
2) FACT: we are not alone in the universe

NEXT LOGICAL QUESTIONS:

who would have the authority to visit us? was it granted by us?

i guess the question i'm dancing around is are the aliens coordinating with us from the future?

could the aliens be us from the future?

if we can manipulate time, i'm sure others can.

what events could have transpired to give anyone a reason to come back?

and if all they could do is just send a message, would they code the message?

and if the message was coded, wouldn't it have to be decoded or decyphered by the message itself?

when was the first ufo/alien sighting recorded?

if we are being visited, has it just been recently?

if only messages could be delivered, is there any device recorded to have such capabilty, or symptoms/signs that would support such a device?

"it was said any army of the world that possessed it could not loose a battle."

the ark of the covenant.

a small box, lightning shooting from it ....

what would be the only way to ensure you would never loose a battle?

a weapon?

what is the first thing the most powerful nation of the world goes after during the first few hours of war?

what do the most powerful nations seek to destroy first, before anything else?

communications.

"communication is key"

could the ark of the covenant offer the possessors of it the means to deliver a message to themselves before they got outflanked, or warn them of an impending attack?

if anyone could manipulate time, which we have proven we already have ...
did we?

or will we?


please don't think i'm too of track here.
no deductions.
just questions based on available data.

but just like a jugsaw puzzle, you don't spend too much time with one piece, sometimes you move on to the next piece of the puzzle.

is that not what we are doing here?

thoughts?


[edit on 18/6/05 by Esoteric Teacher]

Just a quick comment on that article:

This is just another theory folks, and one that smaks of Destiny and a bunch of other things that are fantasy.

In other words, even if you take a trip back in time with the specific intention of killing your father, so long as you know he is happily sitting in his chair when you leave him in the present, you can be sure that something will prevent you from murdering him in the past. It is as if it has already happened.

"You go back to kill your father, but you'd arrive after he'd left the room, you wouldn't find him, or you'd change your mind," said Professor Greenberger.

"You wouldn't be able to kill him because the very fact that he is alive today is going to conspire against you so that you'll never end up taking that path leads you to killing him."

Some mysterious force would prevent you from doing what you willed? So when we travel back in time we loose free will?

This really changes nothing, what we have is yet another wrong path to something that cannot be done. All this really shows is that we still worship Albert and are trying to prove what he considered possible.

I am considering your words ET, and will comment on them. One small thing, yes I think our sequential sense of events is learned, so yes it could, possibly, be unlearned. But to do so would disconnect you from every other human in a way I would not wish to experience.


A.T
(-)

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
Just a quick comment on that article:

Some mysterious force would prevent you from doing what you willed? So when we travel back in time we loose free will?

a thought. what if travelling back in time would take away your free will. what if there is some as of yet unidentified entity or force (that the article eludes to) that prevents it.

perhaps only those bound by the timeline would truly have free will, but not be aware of the true purpose for their actions/behaviors, however could be manipulated by those who do travel through time.

in such speculative events however, they would need operatives in this timeline they could manipulate to carry out their will.

would this eliminate the paradox syndromes?

I am considering your words ET, and will comment on them. One small thing, yes I think our sequential sense of events is learned, so yes it could, possibly, be unlearned. But to do so would disconnect you from every other human in a way I would not wish to experience.

you don't have to consider my words too much, obviously there was a lot of speculation in those questions. it was just food for thought considering if we do find the answers we seek, it only seems logical to ask the next logical question. that was the only point i was trying to make.

but, if constructive thought seems appropriate, then speak your mind. i doubt anyone's truth can be wrong.

"But to do so would disconnect you from every other human in a way I would not wish to experience."

but would you be connected to every other mind that had transcended out of time?

would you not connect to those who had gone before you in some type of shared consciousness in some other kind of existance without time?

again, retorical questions. just considering the possibilities devoid of negativity.



[edit on 18/6/05 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
stay with me, then brain dump it if you wish.

1) FACT: time travel is now proven to be possible
2) FACT: we are not alone in the universe

NEXT LOGICAL QUESTIONS:

Grouping proven fact with speculation does not make said specualtion fact.

If number 2 is a "FACT", send me a link. I'd love to see it! I read the news everyday, but I guess somehow I missed that article.

Originally posted by backtoreality

Grouping proven fact with speculation does not make said specualtion fact.

alot of more intelligent people seem to disagree with you. i'll be on their side, you be on yours.

you need a history lesson.

Do you remember how electrical currents and "unseen waves" were laughed at? The knowledge about man is still in its infancy.
- Albert Einstein


Man can learn nothing except by going from the known to the unknown.
- Claude Bernard

Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.
- Albert Einstein

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mystical. It is the source of all true art and science.
- Albert Einstein

If number 2 is a "FACT", send me a link. I'd love to see it! I read the news everyday, but I guess somehow I missed that article.

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...

you are absolutely correct. earth is and always will be the only source of life everywhere.

Thanks for all the quotes Teacher; they were very inspiring.



As for citing the Martian microbial findings as hard evidence of life elsewhere in the universe: no. While it first appreared to be exciting news, it has since undergone a series of setbacks and strong criticisms. At best, the topic is currently undergoing a strong debate, as the NASA website infers.


I'm also glad that you know how to use the 'smiley' function, but I'm afraid that at this point in time trying to group fact with speculation will only result in the slow death of your argument.

Originally posted by backtoreality

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
stay with me, then brain dump it if you wish.

1) FACT: time travel is now proven to be possible
2) FACT: we are not alone in the universe

NEXT LOGICAL QUESTIONS:

Grouping proven fact with speculation does not make said specualtion fact.

If number 2 is a "FACT", send me a link. I'd love to see it! I read the news everyday, but I guess somehow I missed that article.

why would you even begin to contribute to a thread entitled "can aliens manipulate time", when all you are not willing to be open minded enough to accept the truth?

FACT: We are not alone in the universe!

need proof?

humans are not the only life on this planet.

hence, we are not alone in the universe.

i stand by my statement, and it is validated as fact. go to the zoo.

how many planets has humanity been to?

1

can you describe the variety of life that survives in extremes on this planet?

what does life need?

light?

wrong!

there is plenty of life living miles under the ocean near "smokers" that seem to survive just fine with no light at all.

well then, it can't be too hot you say?

wrong!

microbial and multi-cellular organisms have been discovered in boiling sulfur water in hot springs around the world, yes alive, and living in 200+ degree temperatures.

well then, it can't be too cold you say?

wrong!

microbial life found in Fox Caverns in northern Alaska in the perma-frost was warmed up, and yes, alive after being frozen for 2 million years. yes, organisms on this planet are still alive that began life 2 million years ago.

well then, they need air you say?

wrong!

after drilling 780 feet down into solid, yes, solid rock, microbial life was found inside solid rock at a depth of 780 feet, alive, and integrating all the energy they needed by eating the rock.

seems to me life is a lot more resiliant than you would have people believe.

and considering that we've only been to 1 planet, so far we have a 100% success rate of finding life. that is to say life has been found on every planet we've been to.

how many planets are there in our solar system?
how many solar sytems are there in our galaxy?
how many galaxies are there?

"It's a matter of statistics, really," said Barnett. "Depending on who you talk to, the universe is 12 to 15 billion years old. Humans have only been around for 40,000 years. We really are the new kids on the block. It would just be too tough a pill to swallow to believe that nothing else has evolved in all that time and space."

The universe is indeed vast. In 1924 astronomer Edwin Hubble showed that there are galaxies beyond our own. "More than a half century later, the Hubble telescope has shown that there are at least 100 billion such galaxies," said Shostak. Our galaxy, the Milky Way, is home to at least 100 billion stars.

Planets are also plentiful. Since 1995, when the first Jupiter-sized planet outside of our solar system was found, astronomers have been able to identify about 100 more planets, all of them around 300 times more massive than Earth

you obviously were not very good at math.

how many planets are there in our solar system?
9
how many solar sytems are there in our galaxy?
100,000,000,000+ (so many we are still counting them)
how many galaxies are there?
100,000,000,000+ (so many we are still counting them)

the statistical probability of us being alone in the universe is ultimatley the biggest statistical improbability ever. something in the neighborhood of:

there is 1 chance in over 900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+ you may be correct.

so either the 900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+

planets you have been to: 1
life found: yes
planets you have not been to: 900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+

and i'm the bigger idiot here?

ok real contributors:

can aliens manipulate time.

if the content of the contribution does not contribute to the title of the thread: CAN ALIENS MANIPULATE TIME, or small variations of it. we can't hear you.

we are no longer here to discuss aliens do not exist, because the odds for aliens not existing is a mute arguement in the first place.

CAN ALIENS MANIPULATE TIME.
TIME TRAVEL

I like the way you operate Teacher: scream out your beliefs and then close the discussion because you think you are right. However, I agree, we should get back to the topic of "Can Aliens Manipulate Time".



Let's get to the root of this question so we can know where to go from here.

1. What exactly can we hope to learn/prove by asking this question?

2. What evidence is there to support any suggestions?

3. Is there really any way to debate clashes of opinion on the topic?

4. What will constitute an acceptable response?


Again, thanks for the great idea Teacher. Let's get back on track everyone!

Here this link is on topic!

No paradox for time travellers

THE laws of physics seem to permit time travel, and with it, paradoxical situations such as the possibility that people could go back in time to prevent their own birth. But it turns out that such paradoxes may be ruled out by the weirdness inherent in laws of quantum physics.

Edit: Sorry I guess this has been mentioned on this thread.

[edit on 20-6-2005 by lost_shaman]