Holocaust Survivor Leaving US

Originally posted by Odium
jonSUN, he wasn't talking about Jews being targets again.

Odium is correct,
he was worried about the way the government is becoming

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Odium
jonSUN, he wasn't talking about Jews being targets again.

Odium is correct,
he was worried about the way the government is becoming

Oops my bad. But i still think he's being paraniod.

A) Odium is always correct.
B) We need some further information on this guy, area of America he is living in, etc.

There have been some attacks by people on Muslims in America, also there have been times when the Police Force have not followed up cases invovling Muslims like they should have. But this guy would know what Nazi Germany was like, so if he thinks they're the same something must be happening.

Originally posted by Odium
There have been some attacks by people on Muslims in America, also there have been times when the Police Force have not followed up cases invovling Muslims like they should have. But this guy would know what Nazi Germany was like, so if he thinks they're the same something must be happening.

There has been a lot flying around lately, a lot of people have been comparing America to Nazi Germany and Bush to Hitler (even thou thats abit extreme)

I agree with Skadi, the U.S. is far from becoming anything like Nazi Germany. If you look hard enough you can find someone willing to say almost anything, but I seriously doubt this is a common opinion among U.S. Holocaust survivors.

While I agree with Skadi's comments....I'm not so sure we're THAT far away from Muslim concentration camps and giving Bush a big zeig heil! We're probably just ONE major terrorist attack away from it...given the common perception of them here in the US. Most citizens are simply ignorant and equate muslim with terrorist. We saw this alot after 911, and after another attack, it will be tenfold, and truly terrifying..

it will only take one more attack before all muslims become a target, America isn't far off that. After 9/11, muslims were targetted because of the attacks. But wait until the next attack, muslims will become public enemy number one

After September the 11th, there were racial attacks in Wolverhampton as well, someone I know got "jumped" for being a "Muslim" on the facts he has olive skin and a beard...granted he's Jewish, but they over looked that bit.

Originally posted by Odium
After September the 11th, there were racial attacks in Wolverhampton as well, someone I know got "jumped" for being a "Muslim" on the facts he has olive skin and a beard...granted he's Jewish, but they over looked that bit.

Yeah i remember hearing about the attacks in the UK too,
BNP had posters saying "kick out islam"

I'll admit I didn't know much about islam it's self and wasn't really aware of much of the middle east situation before September 11th. The only thing I knew relating to the Middle East was the gulf war. Funny because I was born Jewish but I remember my dads family always talking bad about Muslims. Heck even on 9/11 that day people were in our lunch room at school blaming different ethnic groups. This loud Mexican kid was like "I betchya it was the Jews!" and fights broke out. When Bush mentioned middle eastern all the muslims were getting beat up at our school (in Chicago by the way) and people were treating them pretty bad. I could imagine another attack that would pretty much make the Muslim the "so called" enemy to America. Ignorance sucks and it's a sad fact that at one point I trusted the media and big brother as well as many others. I've done much research about the situation and it looks like various different groups could have done something including the US it's self to instill fear as many mentioned.

Originally posted by infinite
"No," he answered me. "I'm going back because I've seen this before." He then commenced to explain that when he was a kid, he watched with his family in fear as Hitler's government committed atrocity after atrocity

This sounds like an urban myth, in all honesty. "Holocause survivor goes back to germany, says america is going nazi', etc etc. Can anyone even confirm this story? It is on rense afterall, they don't have any real fact checking abilities or anything like that.

Also, check out who's using the story
www.anu.org...
"American Nationalist Union", which has other 'headlines' like
"Mexican Commandos Seek Control of Border" " Lib Watch" and "Gorbachev Opposes Neo-Cons' Bid for World Rule".

This is the thing with the false accusation that 'Bush is like Hitler, the US is now like nazi germany or on the road to it". If a dictator does pop up, its going ot be one that used a fear of this to assume control, just like Hitler used a fear of the NWO and the jews to take power and just like stalin and lenin used fear over the capitalists and bourgouise to take and hold power.

Also, people don't see dictatorships comming. When it comes, or rather if it comes, it won't be from anywhere anyone expected it.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Also, people don't see dictatorships comming. When it comes, or rather if it comes, it won't be from anywhere anyone expected it.

You can see dictatorships coming, history is repeating itself. America uses fear just like the Nazi's did, Nazi's used the jews, America uses the Muslims

Originally posted by Nygdan

Also, people don't see dictatorships comming. When it comes, or rather if it comes, it won't be from anywhere anyone expected it.

Isn't that the case here though?
I mean, apart from a few 100 of us on ATS, who in the real world suspects Bush to be a wanna-be dictator? Such assumption is absurd to most people in the real world, nobody is expecting him or his administration to be dictatorship-like. Quite the contrary, to ordinary people this administration is the beacon of hope and freedom running around the world throwing flowers of democracy to everyone and dancing with children under the rainbow, never ever doing anything wrong... kinda picture.

Most people are too passive to actually do anything. There might be some TALK about oposition, but nobody is actually doing something about it.

People are being seriously brainwashed with patriotism, which in this case is not "loving your country" it is "loving your country's current administration and all their decisions".
The threat of "imminent" attack is used to push laws that have nothing to do with terror and nobody is DOING anything about it.

USA is still not a dictatorship, but it shows certain symptoms of it, that much is obvious.

Also, it is important to say there are various forms of dictatorship. It doesn't have to be Hitler-like.
Actually, if a dictatorship was to be formed in 21st century, it would be a corporate one, controlled by big companies, which control the goverment and military to some extent and control the people through media... sound familiar?

Originally posted by infinite
You can see dictatorships coming, history is repeating itself. America uses fear just like the Nazi's did, Nazi's used the jews, America uses the Muslims

I don't think its as simple as that. There are anti-american muslim groups out there, just as there were, indeed, "anti-german" communist groups (tho the jews were completely falsely accused) out there that the nazis rallied against. "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get me". The question is, has it crossed a line? The nazis made anti-semitism a function of the state itself. The US governement doesn't do the same for muslims. Indeed, bush is constantly stating that its not a war agianst islam, and meets with muslim leaders, and is actively trying to prevent a 'clash of civilizations'. The american public, I will agree, is largely bigoted about the situation, and thinks that muslims are unscrupulous and insidious devils, just like the german public thought about the jews and communists. But, agian, it requires a bit more than that to say that its a dictatorship.

paper-clip
who in the real world suspects Bush to be a wanna-be dictator

Er? Practically everyone. Its not a phenomenon limited to the conspiracy community.

People are being seriously brainwashed with patriotism, which in this case is not "loving your country" it is "loving your country's current administration and all their decisions".

I disagree. Most americans, on either side of the political spectrum, recognize that patriotism has nothing to do with thinking that the president is perfect. Indeed, both sides have had presidents that they absolutely hated. True enough, a lot of people tend to overreact to anything anti-bush or even critical of bush, but that does not a dictatorship make. Also, lets not confuse nazi rhetoric about the Fatherland and american Patriotism. True enough, the patria is, literally, the Fatherland. However, the american conception of patriotism is different from the german and nazi conception of duty and service to the fatherland. Nazi ideology intimately connected Man to the phyiscal Land that he was born from, an association of Man and Nature was very important to them and it was part of the whole 'Blood' conception. There really isn't anything similar to that in the american right, the closest to that is the far left and the 'scientific' greens and whathave you. Also, the nazis exalted the state above the individual, and service to others far above service to self, whereas americans, yes, they recognize that it can be a good thing for a man to sacrifice and die for a greater cause, isn't anywhere nearly as radical in their approach to community and selflessness as the nazis and germans were. Americans are, well, superficial and greedy and relatively independant.
Also, lets be realistic. The Bush administration hasn't sent out anti-muslim propaganda, depicting islamery (as opposed to jewry) as the reason why there are problems in the US, nor has it targeted international banking corportations as sellouts or the nwo-illuminati as the shadow peopel behind it all. And as far as muslims receiving 'bad press' from the administration, well, muslims did do 911. There are muslims that are fighting against the US using terrorist means. Its not a falsehood. So the anti-muslim actions are a little more like the anti-communist actions of the nazis, that is, a not unreasonable reaction against a genuine threat to the state.
And, most importantly, the Bush Administration simply hasn't done anything that is a reach for dictatorship. In a few years Bush will be 'Former President Bush', not "President-For-Life Bush", not 'Leader Bush" nor "Commander Bush" or anything like that. The right in the US might be willing to give up too much privacy and legalistic control of the handling of citizens who are enemies of the state, but then again the left might also be too willing to give up independancy and self-sustainability in exchange for medical coverage and extensive welfare programs. I mean, when Clinton was president, the people on the far right said "Clinton's gonna take over, make himself dictator', and they impressed themselves with all sorts of comparisons to the Nazis: gun control, expansion of the welfare state, the reduction of private property, abuse of policepowers, etc etc. But Clinton's not dictator, and bush won't be either.

That, of course, leaves the "Illuminati Option", which is a sort of last resort for unfufiled predictions of dictatorship.

Folks, this is an "op ed" type story. There is no way of telling if it's true or if the guy just made it up -- and heaven knows that a lot of these are made up or exaggerated.

Yes, it could be true, but we're provided with no details: how many survivors are moving back, what is the person's name, where did they come from, and other details that would appear in a news story that can be verified. All we have is a well-written story using a lot of standard propaganda techniques to tug at the heart strings and deliver a message.

Until you know whether or not it's true and whether or not there's hard data (not "well, I know a neighbor who..." stories) about former immigrants returning to Germany then you need to take the story with a huge chunk of salt.

Particularly since recent statistics show that very few Germans are returning to Germany:
www.migrationinformation.org...

countrystudies.us...

www.germany-info.org...



(and please remember that Rense articles, as their disclaimer says, are not fact-checked.)

Thank you for adding that Byrd, i didnt know that

Cheers for adding some facts

You're all forgetting that the Nazi's came to power when the German government and constitution were still in their infancy. Our system of government in the US has been around for over 200 years. There's not a Nazi-type party in our country that is sitting by and waiting to take over. It will never happen. Anyone who says it will is just fear-mongering.

Anyone who compares our government now, even in the smallest degree, to NAZI's completely cheapens what the Nazi's did. It's really sickening if you ask me. And as for this Holocaust survivor moving to Germany... I'm just willing to bet that he's senile and suffering from dillusion. The US is not even a thousand years away from stuffing people in ovens. Give me a break!

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Not quite fear, they have something much better - shame. Criticize the govt. and you're criticizing America. You don't need brownshirts when you have the world's most patriotic population and there's no greater moral disgrace than to be labelled unpatriotic.

ah yes the whole "Your not a true American"

works every time

Or the ever-popular, "Why do you hate America?"

To which I'd reply, "If you voted for Bush, you REALLY hate America!"

I love America, which is why I did not vote for Bush OR Kerry! How d'ye neocons like THEM apples?

Originally posted by Amethyst love America, which is why I did not vote for Bush OR Kerry!

Meaning that you helped Bush win, really.

How d'ye neocons like THEM apples?

I suppose that they absolutely love it.