The Patriot Act - Your Thoughts?

I like to remain in the optomistic mode, but now the time has come for the American public to make it's stand. If we do not take control of the Act by our govt. from the publics stand point of view, we may as well just willingly let the powers that be, run us into the ground. Usually a small "adjustment" made by the govt. to improve "our" intrests in the guise of Homeland Security, goes over with a willing public at large. The next step is to tighten or rachet down the process of control over the Mr. and Mrs. John Doe. Logically, Martial Law soon follows. Examples of current episodes are of the time we are currently in. Watch; it is coming to a neighborhood near you in the very near future.

If I was a terrorist or a criminal, I would be against the Patriot Act.

But since I am neither, it doesn't bother me.

To the people against it...Do you have something to hide? Because alot of you are awfully nervous about it.

Originally posted by Carseller4
If I was a terrorist or a criminal, I would be against the Patriot Act.

But since I am neither, it doesn't bother me.

To the people against it...Do you have something to hide? Because alot of you are awfully nervous about it.

Do the Salem witch hunts ring a bell? Because this is turning into a twenty-first-century witch hunt.

"Terrorism" has been given such a broad definition that anyone who says they don't like W can be considered a terrorist.

How would you like the FBI or SS or whoever to be snooping through your things without your knowledge because they THINK you MIGHT be a terrorist because of some stupid remark you might have said?

Now if I don't like you, I can swear up and down you know a terrorist and nowadays, our government doesn't care about "innocent until proven guilty." It's the opposite now.

Welcome to the new Amerika. Papers, please?

Well Miss, I feel you missed the Point and Boat. Seems to me everything's changed after Sept 11/01 and it may only be a matter of time until you, I and countries - close, feel the difference an attack makes of undefenable power.

Scaringly - I don't see a short term way to prevent another swipe on north america. This is the only case where I feel Bush is best in power..he may take it to the Countries which support or hide the extreme. And in doing so allow the extremists to know their Families will or may also suffer after their extremism acts which kill innocent people.

Dallas

Carseller, you might not be worried about it now, but you will be. So will your children.
If I were a terrorist, I'd be laughing my butt off. Of course, they probably don't know that the Patriot ACt had nothing to do with them. Were you aware of the fact that the Patriot Act was Clinton's brainchild? He just never had a reason to push it through. The reason came after he left office.
Now, they are tightening the noose.

Originally posted by Carseller4
If I was a terrorist or a criminal, I would be against the Patriot Act.

But since I am neither, it doesn't bother me.

To the people against it...Do you have something to hide? Because alot of you are awfully nervous about it.

If you have nothing to hide, perhaps you won't care if I install cameras in your home and tap your phone lines? I mean, you have nothing to hide, right?

Sounds like Carseller4 just got pwned.

Clinton's brain-child? Very interesting.......

I often hear this phrase or something very similar:

Seems to me everything's changed after Sept 11/01 and it may only be a matter of time until you, I and countries - close, feel the difference an attack makes of undefenable power.

As smarter people than I have said- "The world didn't change on 9/11. We just joined it."

Carseller4 is one of the sheeple & is unaware of reality. It doesn't make him a bad guy as he's just one of the many brainwashed living amongst us. In one sense I completely agree with Carseller4 - If everything were out in the open with nothing hidden only the real criminals would have to worry.

The problem is the " Patriot Act " does just the opposite - it allows criminals to operate behind closed doors hidden from the general population & accountable to nobody and if anyone questions what these criminals do or threatens to expose their crimes they are labeled a terrorist/criminal via the media to the general population to draw attention away from the real criminals.

It's a shell game. Even the term " Patriot Act " is an antonym of what it really stands for. The " Patriot Act " labels real Patriots as "terrorist". Those who stand behind the "Patriot Act" truly loath Patriots. Real Patriots truly loath the "Patriot Act"!

Careseller4 like many other sheeple is unable to think beyond his present circumstances. He is only aware of a thin veneer of reality and since he's happy with his present role in the system (much like Neo in the Matrix before he took the pill), he sees no reason to oppose something that he believes does not target himself or his kind.

The real problem is much of the population is like Carseller - many of them very good people, but just unaware or ignorant to reality.

[edit on 5-6-2005 by outsider]

I'm simply basing my opinion on " If the left hates it, it must be good".

If Bush has anything to do with anything, the left is automatically opposed to it. From judicial nominations, tax cuts, Social Security Reform, and the War against Terror.

There is a small majority of people who have caught on to this. So when we see the Bush Administration getting bashed, we just shake our head and say "There they go again".

So for the reasons stated, can you blame people for supporting the Patriot Act?

Here's the probem, Carseller, "they" play us against one another. That would be a perfectly normal and fairly logical thought (If it disturbs the libs, it must be good), if there wasn't a fifth column that is controlling things, counting on the cons to feel that way and support their desires.

They have been playing us all like fiddles for a long time!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
They have been playing us all like fiddles for a long time!

By simply educating the rest of our kind and joining hands as the brothers we are, the result will be to cease their music. No guns, no bombs - just the truth shall set us all free.

Good does not need to hide behind secrecy; if it is good then it need not be a secret. Evil cannot exist without secrecy; it must hide behind closed doors because if exposed in light it can no longer exist. Good does not need to kill in order to prevail - it only needs open communication or light, evil has to kill communication or those that threaten to shed light on it. This is not a battle of the right & the left, it is a battle of good against evil & the evil hides everywhere including right & the left.


[edit on 5-6-2005 by outsider]

Yes, by law, I must put *something* down. "I do not wish to furnish this information" can be checked, but I have to go behind it and "guess". LP/DU(automated underwriting) will NOT run unless a race is checked in two boxes and gender is checked. Plain and simple. Won't run. This is due to the Patriot act, it says it on my papers. Not sure how that catches terrorists or drug dealers though

When I worked at a large bank, they would make loans to minorities to fill their quotas when if the same person was white, they would turn them down. I swear that to be true also. I don't know if it still happens, that was about 6 years ago. I could go to the dept manager and say "Well, they are worried about being descriminated against as they are a minority....." and he would push it through.

I think it is more for quotas and incentive monies than it is for ethnic cleansing in all reality.

[edit on 6/5/2005 by llpoolej]

Originally posted by llpoolej
I think it is more for quotas and incentive monies than it is for ethnic cleansing in all reality.

[edit on 6/5/2005 by llpoolej]

That is what the lady at my bank said when I applied for my mortgage and filled out all the fannie mae stuff. She said it was to fill minority quotas, just like those college apps where you have to have a race (some of the ones I did didn't have a no response option at all)

I'm going to take you on a ride through history to understand why this is, unfortunately, business as usual - and not new.

Let's start with the Salem Witch Trials. Some history students while I was at school did a research project on the Salem Witch Trials which showed that the majority of those who were accused were landowners along the main road. And the accuser was someone who had been rebuffed when they tried to buy that land. Abuse of power maybe? People are basically nasty and selfish, so this shouldn't be a surprise. This is why I have NO sympathy or tolerance for those who say "I'm not a terrorist/criminal/ethnicity/etc., I have nothing to worry about." Yes, you do. (Sorry, history degrees make you lose faith in mankind. Divine Intervention is the only explanation for mankind not being extinct yet.)

Ok, let's move forward to after the American Revolution and the election of John Adams as president. He didn't like Thomas Jefferson very much and needed something to help keep him in line. So he passed the first precursor of the Patriot Act - The Alien Sedition Act - which among other things, made criticism of the president a crime. Congressman Matthew Lyon of Vermont found himself in jail for criticizing Mr. Adams. Seems Vermont causes trouble for all power-mad presidents. The U.S. Supreme Court was made up of real Patriots who had fought in the Revolution and they took unkindly to this abomination of legislation, striking it down rather quickly for a court. Mind you, this is the very definition of Activist Judiciary, mind you. Thank GOD they were activists. Of course, you could also escape this nonsense by moving westward into Indian Country.

Let's look a little bit further to the U.S. Civil War and Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln, a very popular historical figure suspended habeaus corpus during the entirity of the Civil War into the post-war period. Habeaus Corpus is your right not to be held without charges. The instances of his use of this are too numerous to list. Here, once again, if you were very lucky, you could go to California as did several rather famous American Authors of that era. Remember, only Walt Whitman served when it comes to the giants of American Authors of that time frame.

This led us into Reconstruction and the Gilded Age. The corruption of that era makes anyone's head hurt. One of the things that did occur was that the abuses by the robber barons became intolerable leading to the Mining and Railroad Wars. Never heard of them? Yeah, that is suppressed history. The Miners and Railroad workers involved themselves in what would be termed 'acts of domestic terrorism' in order to secure things like workplace safety. You don't want to hear the stories of coal miners before unions existed. We'll come back to those 'acts of domestic terrorism'.

Back to the Gilded Age - you have another interesting thing here in that the 'Almighty Dollar' became worshiped by the vast majority, and charity was frowned upon if it came from government. Sound familiar? Well, this led to one of the worst depressions in world history (the U.S. is not an island) - the 1890s depression. This was the Great Depression until the 1930s. Runaway inflation, homelessness, and economic shifts from an agricultural to an industrial economy. Now, this led to the formation of the Populist Movement which, in turn, brought us such figures as Theodore Roosevelt. He was usurped by the Republicans.

Along about the 1910s there was the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. This scared the powers of the world into some of the silliest laws ever - very reflective of the Patriot Act. Let's see, where do I start? They made it illegal to protest a war, they made it treasonous to stop or slow work. They also renamed "sauerkraut" to "freedomkraut" - people have always been idiots.

The powers-that-be used the double whammies of 'domestic acts of terror' by the labor leaders and their opponents (The owners were just as, if not more, guilty if you study the history - but they rarely paid a price and, the dangers of 'bolshevism' to jail all kinds of undesirables. It just got worse through the 1920s and 1930s. There were even issues during WWII, but the propaganda machine for WWII was much more effective and labor tried to work with the government -but one little known fact is that during the 1930s and 1940s there were many Americans who migrated to the Soviet Union and elsewhere. Strange, but true. Of course, every place was bad during that era.

The 1920s also saw the rise of G-Men due to Prohibition. They got to do all kinds of things that would be considered less than constitutional and were never held up over it.

Let's jump forward to the later 1940s, strangely, everyone was more afraid of communists than fascists who had been successful. Well, everyone but a few key cabinet members of FDRs who warned that American Fascists like Prescott Bush (actually named as a fascist by the U.S. Government) were more likely to destroy the U.S. from within without warlike tendencies until they were secure. And there was this little thing called Paperclip that brought Nazis (type of Fascist) into key scientific and espionage positions within the USA. Strange? I would consider that a threat.

Remember McCarthy? Well, I'm saddened so many library's forgot the lessons of that era. Most librarians who were alive then had policies of immediately shredding all materials related to who had borrowed a book as soon as the book was returned. You see, the FBI would come in and take those lending lists to go after communists. Sound familiar? So, that isn't new either.

Move into the 1960s and you have such groups as The Weatherman, The Silesian Army, etc. All domestic terrorists. Oh, let's not forget the folks who were working for Civil Rights! They were domestic terrorists to the powers-that-be and they were secretly investigated by Hoover's FBI. (This is the same era when the Navy, Air Force, Army, Marines and NSA were experimenting on servicemen with drugs and with mind control.)

Jumping to the 1970s you had COINTELPRO. Remember those hearings? The ones that spotlighted all the abuses of law enforcement? Remember that congress then passed all kinds of laws that got rid of those abilities? FBI, CIA, and other powers did not like that and you know they started working to get those powers back. RICO was the first thing they got Congress to agree to. Allows them all kinds of secrecy in investigations.

Ok, somehow, purer and more potent drugs started appearing in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Law enforcement started going on about how they needed laws to deal with this new threat - nothing like the Prohibition era. Where did these drugs come from? Many of which had been legal before big Pharma and the American Medical Association (violators of anti-Trust law, both) got involved. They claimed they need the 4th Amendment suspended so that if they just find an illegal drug on you you can lose EVERYTHING YOU OWN with no appeal. The cowards on the U.S. Supreme Court have ruled this constitutional. Sad, no patriots there.

This was a steady decline. And there is a second item that occurred in the late 1970s and early 1980s - processing power on computers increased and the introduction of personal computers. Ok, I have been an IT professional most of my professional life, and I wouldn't trust ANYTHING in a computer database. Humans put that info in and it is less than 100% correct. Your life can be ruined from a typo with the way things are going.

Today we have the U.S. Patriot Act - an amalgamation of all the worst laws in our history. We also have a group of power-mad Congress Critters on the Republican side and no Patriots with any power on the Democratic side. Independents don't play in as they can't win in most states outside of Vermont. (Vermont seems to be special. And clean elections are a myth.) We are also cursed with a Supreme Court filled with those having no respect for the U.S. Constitution as shown in the 2000 election. Granted, the likelihood was high the new congress would have voted Bush in, but it should have been Congress to do it - not the court. Their actions are treasonous to my mind and they should be duly dealt with under the law.

For these reasons I find the Patriot Act to be an abomination to any true patriot. It is an unconstitutional piece of dreck whose authors should be tried for treason. As should every Congress Critter that voted for it!

Regards!

Granted, I forgot lots of posts, but my hands are getting tired. :-)

Originally posted by Carseller4
I'm simply basing my opinion on " If the left hates it, it must be good".

And there's your mistake. Did you know Dubya is a closet liberal? He's not 100% pro-life. He thinks gay civil unions are okay. He just about rolls the red carpet out for illegal immigrants.

This right vs. left thing is just a huge charade. That's what they WANT you to think.

As for me, I'm a constitutionalist. And what Bush is doing is COMPLETELY unconstitutional!

Originally posted by mlowsley
I'm going to take you on a ride through history to understand why this is, unfortunately, business as usual - and not new.

Let's look a little bit further to the U.S. Civil War and Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln, a very popular historical figure suspended habeaus corpus during the entirity of the Civil War into the post-war period. Habeaus Corpus is your right not to be held without charges. The instances of his use of this are too numerous to list. Here, once again, if you were very lucky, you could go to California as did several rather famous American Authors of that era. Remember, only Walt Whitman served when it comes to the giants of American Authors of that time frame.

Yeah, but did you know that there IS provision in the Constitution where habeas corpus CAN be suspended under certain circumstances? Article 1, Section 9 states:

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

We WERE being invaded so to speak, because it was the Jesuits who instigated the war. The Vatican was trying to take over the United States, using divide-and-conquer.

That's not like Bush, who's a NWO shill who had an "excuse" to pass the Patriot, or Treason, Act.

Originally posted by Dallas

Well Miss, I feel you missed the Point and Boat. Seems to me everything's changed after Sept 11/01 and it may only be a matter of time until you, I and countries - close, feel the difference an attack makes of undefenable power.

Scaringly - I don't see a short term way to prevent another swipe on north america. This is the only case where I feel Bush is best in power..he may take it to the Countries which support or hide the extreme. And in doing so allow the extremists to know their Families will or may also suffer after their extremism acts which kill innocent people.Dallas

We will see. Stranger and more deadly things have happened and when the idea was tabled in the past people have gone into denial. I do believe that history is a good barometer of the future and history has shown that similar actions to those taken now have lead to just what I am saying. There is just no logic to some to laws that are currently being enacted. The worst of it being that this act will not prevent another attack on America.

Sept. 11 was convenient as it provides ‘justification’ in the eyes of some for the removal of rights of the mass to trap what is in reality a few. Not worth it in my book. I would feel the same if a terrorist act was perpetrated in my country.

Originally posted by Carseller4
I'm simply basing my opinion on " If the left hates it, it must be good".

If Bush has anything to do with anything, the left is automatically opposed to it. From judicial nominations, tax cuts, Social Security Reform, and the War against Terror.

There is a small majority of people who have caught on to this. So when we see the Bush Administration getting bashed, we just shake our head and say "There they go again".

So for the reasons stated, can you blame people for supporting the Patriot Act?

Ummm.... you do know that there is no such thing as Left or Right? Republican or Democrat? Cuz both "sides" belong to the same secret society: The Skull n Bones secret society. The Skull n Bones secret society tells both the Republicans and Democrats their orders.

I like your sig, did you know Rush Limbaugh is a known drug user of illegal drugs? He is also a dealer of illegal drugs?

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mlowsley,

Good write up you did! There's even more info, but you dropped enough food for everyone to think about. The part where you mentioned "Paperclip" is actually called Operation Paperclip. It's part of the whole thing where America really funded the Nazi's, Hitler, Himmler, on and on. Right before Germany was invaded, America on purpose shipped top Nazi officials out of Germany, and into the USA, and some to other countries. The CIA was formed by the 2 Dulles brothers, along with a high ranking Nazi. The CIA is actually a continuation of the Nazi party.

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To everyone else, I can't believe EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD forgot the fact that Patriot Act 1 is old news! Patriot Act 2 the sequel has been passed already. Patriot Act 3 is on the drawing board.

IMO Patriot Act's are good for America. Maybe then majority of Americans will start to appreciate freedoms and ideals that people of America died for in the past and still dying. You can't appreciate something that is given to you for free.

You have to earn it, fight for it and protect it.

Especialy freedom.

Originally posted by yanchek
IMO Patriot Act's are good for America. Maybe then majority of Americans will start to appreciate freedoms and ideals that people of America died for in the past and still dying. You can't appreciate something that is given to you for free.

You have to earn it, fight for it and protect it.

Especialy freedom.

So please explain how this is good as the American people's feedom has now been taken away. How do they get it back?