Rapture?

Originally posted by curtisthebull

Originally posted by jfdarby

Mans Number is 6, between Gods lucky Numbers HA HA

So, if man's number is 6, what about 666??

The 6th seal
The 6th trump
The 6th vial

How much more are we being told here?


But....back on topic...

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So if I read this correctly, there is no pretribulation gathering back to Christ.




[edit on 6/5/2005 by curtisthebull]

Yes, the number of man is 6 and the beast is 666..

and have you already poited out the is a lot of bad 6's talk about in the last Book of the Bible ...

Much of the talk of the rapture, a word clearly not in the Holy Bible, but is a man made doctrine or a theology that is in reality an over-grown and a confusing often dividing and destructive myth and leaven which had infected the larger Church today

Matthew 16:11 (KJV)
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Titus 1:10-16 (KJV)
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: [11] Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
[14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. [15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Today there are millions of Christians who are believing or talking about things as being “biblical truths” —teachings which they received from their pastor, or heard from another preacher, or that they read by a popular acclaimed Christian author, or viewed on a Christian website, or they saw in Christian movie, yet few ever seem to go back to research if what they were told was so in the Bible. Yet the Bible clearly teaches those who are in Christ to do this.

“The Rapture”
Perhaps one of the most confusing and devastating doctrines has been the idea of the rapture, which makes many a Christian today sit idle, rather than doing what Christ commanded.

The 'Rapturists' believe that Jesus is going to rapture them out of the world, and all they need to do is believe in Jesus and or be a "Christian" and one day before the great tribulation or during the start or middle of the tribulation period, POP! Crack or Whoosh! They will "saved" up in the air by God for their deeds.

While there appears to be a rapture— that is the almighty awesome and terrible power of Almighty YHWH to catch away His saints at the last time— it does not appear to come before the troubles. Yahweh is going refine us HIs Children in His Fire.

No one will be saved or caught away before, the bad times come, before temptations or troubles or out of the great tribulation.

For this reason is why Christ said he who over overcomes.
Rev. 2:7 (KJV)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev. 2:11 (KJV)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev. 2:17 (KJV)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Rev. 2:26 (KJV)
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev. 3:5 (KJV)
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev. 3:12 (KJV)
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev. 3:21 (KJV)
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

It's clear the true dead in Christ, who keep in the faith and their garments clean, will over come.

Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
This passage tells us that tribulation martyrs will be among those "dead in Christ" resurrected at the rapture. It follows, then, that the rapture takes place some time AFTER the antichrist starts persecuting those who will not take his mark.
In order that they hang on to their "pre-trib" rapture hope, some Christian authors posit a second rapture during the tribulation which will account for those saints described in Revelation 20:4-6. A "pre-trib" rapture would have already removed the faithful prior to antichrist's persecution, so according to this theory these tribulation martyrs must be those newly converted, having missed the "pre-trib" rapture.

However, there can be no "pre-trib" rapture/resurrection and then a "second rapture/resurrection" at some point within the tribulation. We are clearly told that "THIS is the first resurrection", the resurrection which INCLUDES THOSE SAINTS MARTYRED DURING ANTICHRIST'S PERSECUTION. The rest of the dead do not live again until after the thousand years.

The Bible says nothing of three resurrections of the dead. There are merely the two: the first resurrection of the dead in Christ, which will include those martyred during the antichrist's persecution BECAUSE it takes place at some time after antichrist comes to power, and the resurrection of the rest of the dead after Jesus Christ's millennial reign.

Originally posted by Sevenstars_777
The 'Rapturists' believe that Jesus is going to rapture them out of the world, and all they need to do is believe in Jesus and or be a "Christian" and one day before the great tribulation or during the start or middle of the tribulation period, POP! Crack or Whoosh!

They will "saved" up in the air by God for their deeds.

Since I believe God is coming for believers before the tribulation period I need to say a couple of things. A christian is not saved by their deeds. I am saved because Christ died for MY SINS. His atoning sacrifice makes me acceptable to God. I have my faith in that alone.

If someone thinks works= salvation they are not saved at all.

Alot of people believe there was a Jesus but have not turned that into faith in His completed sacrifice for them.

A person must be born again to enter eternity with God. There spirit must be brought back to life through Jesus sacrifice.

Well said dbrandt. I believe that the "rapture" will take place at the beginning of the seven bowls of God's wrath. As for my reasoning/proof, try reading David Eells' "Hidden Manna for the End Times". It is a free ebook. Printed, it is 275 pages of insight. I have to say that I agree with a great majority of his writing.

Im going to give my amen to you two on that.



Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Since I believe God is coming for believers before the tribulation period I need to say a couple of things. A christian is not saved by their deeds. I am saved because Christ died for MY SINS. His atoning sacrifice makes me acceptable to God. I have my faith in that alone.

I believe God is coming I believe in the Resurrection and yes (A christian is not saved by their deeds) but i do not believe in the rapture before the tribulation because of many reasons which make me doubt the truth of this doctrine
1)-Is it a Man made doctrine?
2)-Dose it have a biblical foundation?
3)-Is there a luciferian conspiracy behind this movement?

1)-Its a Man made doctrine.
The teaching that the Church--in whole or in part--will be caught up to heaven before the reign of the man of sin, the anti-Christ, did not appear in church history until the early part of the 1800's.

Neither any of the early church fathers, neither the early saints like Augustine of the Coptic church and Ephraim of the Syriac church, neither later church writers taught this' doctrine. Neither did the early church creeds of modern times before the 1800's teach this doctrine. On the contrary, when they referred to the last days of the Church, they said that the Church would continue on earth to the end of the reign of the anti-Christ.
Of course, belief of Church fathers' creeds does not prove always a doctrine is true. The Bible is the proof standard, and it is the only thing we stand upon and follow.

How have we gotten this new doctrine?
In March, 1830, a woman in Richard Baxter's church in London, England, when under supernatural power, prophesied that the Lord Jesus might come any time and that true believers in Him might any day be caught up by translation to heaven. This woman and this church were connected with the Irvingite movement that soon went astray on many false doctrines. The Irvingite movement placed much emphasis on prophesying under supernatural power, etc.

At the same time, John Darby and a little group of men gathered at PLYMOUTH, England, to engage in independent Bible study which later they formed The Plymouth Brethren group which still exists in England and other countries. Although Darby and his group of Plymouth Brethren were not part of the Irvingite movement, they nevertheless accepted this prophecy as coming from the Lord and they incorporated it in their teaching.

Darby was one of the most influential preachers in England at that time. He liked this easy way, escape-tribulation doctrine. But George Muller, of the famous Muller orphanage, and Spurgeon and many other famous preachers opposed this new teaching. But Darby and his group proceeded with the new interpretations and went on teaching this new doctrine. Later, Charles Schofield became one of the Darby line and closely associated with the brethren teaching of the secret Rap- ture of the Church and eternal security teaching.

Another man named W. E. Blackstone wrote a book called Jesus Is Coming. He summarized the Darby-Schofield teaching of the secret Rapture of the Church, and with the help of some rich believers at that time published this book and spread it widely to preachers and missionaries around the world, free of charge. Oswald Smith of Canada and Henry Frost (American secretary of the China Inland Mission)--prominent men at that time-- opposed this doctrine, but it was too late to reverse the wide spread of the book, Jesus Is Coming. And later the Church went on, preachers divided into two opinions and doctrines. Some believe in the secret Rapture, easy escape, of the Church prior to the tribulation, while others believe that the Church will go through the tribulation and the Lord Jesus will come after the tribulation and the appearing of the man of sin.

Note: You can believe either way you want.

It does not make any difference and will have no effect on your eternal salvation. What will affect your eternal salvation is if there is secret sin in your life and any disobedience of any clear Scripture that pertains to holiness and righteousness. But Rapture prior or at the end of Tribulation is not a basic doctrine. The one basic Doctrine is that He is coming to take the Church, His body of believers who lived for Him and kept holy as He is holy. And holiness without no man shall see the Lord. Sin will keep one out of heaven and the pearly gates, as Jesus told those who professed they knew Him.

2)-It has no biblecul fandation

WHEN WILL JESUS RETURN???
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;..." (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.)

From reading the above mentioned verses carefully, it definitely states that the coming of Christ and the translation of the living believers [saints] would not be until after the reign of the man of sin.

The man of sin MUST first be revealed. On this basis, we believe that Christ will appear to gather His saints to him after the reign of the Anti-Christ at the end of the tribulation. And we quote the Scriptures from the Holy Bible. So we can base our belief on what is written in the Bible.

"And as [Jesus] sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet....

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place [see Dan. 11:3135], (whoso readeth, let him understand...

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be....

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."(Matt. 24:3-6,15,21,29-30.)

The Christian world is divided into two opinions. Some believe that there will be a secret, invisible return of Jesus in the sky where the saints will be translated secretly before the beginning of the tribulation and the revelation of the man of sin which will start soon in our time by the appearing of the beast and the world ruler and climax by the rulership of the man of sin.

The other group who makes the majority, believe that the Lord will come after those days of tribulation as it is mentioned clearly in the Scripture proofs we mentioned.

Now to this frist gruop of belivers i would like to ask some questions.

With the fifth seal, we are told WHY God would bring such judgments.
Souls have been slain for the word of God and their testimony, and when
the time is right the judgments will begin. In the meantime, the souls
of the slain are comforted with white robes and told to rest

Revelation 7:15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,

1)-So who are these saints?
2)-arent all christians already in heaven?

Daniel 7:21,22 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

3)-defeating who?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

4)-Wasn't god supposed to come frist?

Matthew 24:15-22 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

5)-who is Jesus advising to flee?
6)-could it be that Jesus is speaking to the elect?
7)-why are the days been shorten?

these are just a few of the thousands of question which make me doubt this false doctrin.

3)-theres a luciferian conspiracy behind this movement.

All those who belive in the post-rapture (PRE - TRIB AND PRE - WRATH)
will be wating for the return for a false messiah.
The Coming of Antichrist Will be a Counterfeit Fulfillment of Prophey

The second coming of Christ
1)-Christ arrives st the end of a great war--Armadeddon
2)-the war will end in fire for the enemies of Israel
3)-Christ comes with his holy ones, His raptured saints
4)-Christ sets up an era of peace as ruler of the earth
5)-Christ builds the Millennial Temple of Ezekiel 40

The coming of the Antichrist
1)-Antichrist arrives at end of a great war--- Gog & Magog
2)-the war will end in fire for the enemies of Israel
3)-Antichrist come with his "holy ones" ---nephillin angels
4)-Antichrist sets up era of peace under global dictataorship
5)-Antichrist allows building of third Jerusalem Temple

PRE - TRIB AND PRE - WRATH
Some Christians expect the Rapture before the Tribulation. Others expect it at the end of the Tribulation just before the Wrath of God is poured out. The reason, as I see it after over 36 years of intense Bible study, is because there actually will be two Raptures. The first one is the Rapture of the Church, the second of the Tribulation saints.
This theory posits two raptures, rather than examining the possibility that prophecy points to ONE RAPTURE in two phases -- the resurrection of the dead occurs first, then at some later time the remaining faithful are "changed" and meet those resurrected ALREADY IN THE AIR.

Antichrist
And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week. And in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the corner of the altar, desolating abominations, even until the end. Daniel 9:27

Our research suggests we will not know the identity of the antichrist until the covenant is "confirmed". This covenant or treaty "with the many", will deal with Israel and the Temple Mount sacrifice. Prophecy tells us the antichrist breaks the covenant or treaty by CAUSING THE SACRIFICE TO CEASE... therefore, the covenant must be one that BEGINS the system of sacrifice on the Temple Mount! The covenant of Daniel 9 is no ordinary "peace treaty", but must deal specifically with the Temple Mount sacrifice.

It was not valid to expect the Tribulation to occur in the year 1000, or any year between 70AD to 1948. The State of Israel did not exist. The end time prophecy of Daniel concerning the reinstated Jewish sacrifice can not be fulfilled by events taking place anywhere else but the Jerusalem Temple Mount. Apocalyptic prophecy simply could not have been fulfilled prior to THIS GENERATION.
In Israel, preparations have already been made for the prophetic rebuilding of a Jewish temple, which has not existed for 1,926 years. Such websites as templemount.org catalog the efforts of many towards this end.

The most coveted and contested property in all Israel is the temple mount. In 1967 at the victorious culmination of the 6 day war, Israel captured the temple mount. For the first time in over 2,300 years, Israel again had control of the holiest site in Judaism. Despite Israel's incredible victory of the 6 day war and their miraculous recovery of the land where the first and second temple once stood, the Israeli government turned over authority of the temple mount to the Moslems. Will they always control it? The prophet Daniel 9:27 is specific about the future of the temple mount in Jerusalem.

Our research suggests that Daniel's 70th Week starts on the eve of Passover.
There are several clues:

Elijah will come back on Passover in fulfillment of Jewish expectations & prophecy.
Elijah will decry the antichrist for 1260 days - Revelation 11:3
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the
coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD -Malachi 4:1-5
As a result of the tradition that Elijah did not die but is with God, significant expectations of Elijah's future return developed within Judaism and Christianity. It was believed that Elijah would someday come back to earth, and his arrival would signal the dawn of the Messianic era. For texts that seem to connect Elijah with the future messiah, see Malachi 4:4-6, Sirach 48:9, and in the New Testament Mark 9:2-13. The cup of Elijah of the Jewish passover seder is another example of this expectation.

This period of 1260 days reappears throughout end time prophecy.
Take note of these event-filled 3 1/2 Biblical years:
Antichrist's psuedo-peace reigns over the world for 1260 days - Daniel 12:7
Antichrist kills and persecutes Christians freely for 1260 days - Revelation 13:5
Why is antichrist's power over Christians broken after 1260 days?

Antichrist goes in to the temple and breaks the treaty of Daniel after 1260 days!
And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week (7 years of 360 days each = 2520 days). And in the middle of the week (halfway through 2520 days = 1260 days) he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the corner of the altar, desolating abominations, even until the end. Daniel 9:27

Why is antichrist's power over Christians broken after 1260 days? After 1260 days antichrist goes in to the temple and breaks the treaty of Daniel 9:27. When antichrist desecrates the temple, those in Israel who thought he was Messiah will realize that he is a False Messiah ... antichrist will no longer be able to rule from Jerusalem.

The Abomination of Desolation - Another Timeline Clue
The abomination of desolation takes place 1260 days AFTER the treaty of Daniel 9:27 is signed. 1260 days after Passover is Tabernacles, another typologically significant Feast of Israel. The Feast of Tabernacles alludes to another significant prophetic event.
Because the treaty of Daniel 9:27 occurs on the eve of Passover "of some year", our studies conclude that a "False Armageddon" scenario will occur JUST BEFORE this treaty, perhaps around Purim. Interestingly enough, this Feast of Israel does occur just before Passover, and the typology seems appropriate for the timing of the Gog/Magog scenario of Ezekiel -- which will SEEM like Armageddon. Haman has been viewed as a "type" of antichrist, and the prophecy of Ezekiel specifically calls the defeated forces of Gog/Magog "Haman - Gog".

Some groups among religious Jews believe that the messiah himself will miraculously come and build a new temple in Jerusalem. However, the Bible points out that men will build the temple, and messiah will come soon after. Adherents to the former view are vulnerable to the lies of a false messiah. When the Antichrist makes possible the miraculous restoration of sacrifice on the temple mount, many in Israel, and the world, will view this as evidence that he is the long awaited messiah. Without faith in Jesus, many will be blinded to the facts and timing of prophecy.


When considering the identity of the antichrist, keep in mind he must be acceptable to Israel

Antichrist Will SEEM Like the Messiah to Israel

I have loved reading all the posts and i have gotten a heap of good links to read from them thanx all,although i think we all know that its not important when the rapture happens,its all important that we are ready when it happens,and that Christ recognises us as his own.

I`d also like to add that yes the Antichrist will seem like the Messiah to Isreal and to most people,in reading alot of threads in ats and playing connect the dots the masons seem to have an agenda with the rebuilding of the temple along with obviously the those of the Jewish faith.

My understanding of Christ was that he rebuilt the temple (it was his body)when he rose.also i`ve read in one of these new revised version bibles that Christ as the corner stone that the builders rejected has been changed to the cap stone of the illuminati,if the Antichrist mentions when he takes his throne that he is the cap stone i can understand why people will believe him to be Christ.

sevenstars, I strongly suggest reading the ebook I previously mentioned. The website is www.americaslastdays.com/

I've has trouble on other threads with someone removing the link and I don't know why. Just in case...
www dot americas last days dot com

Originally posted by Sevenstars_777

From reading the above mentioned verses carefully, it definitely states that the coming of Christ and the translation of the living believers [saints] would not be until after the reign of the man of sin.

Revelation 7:15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,

1)-So who are these saints?
2)-arent all christians already in heaven?

there actually will be two Raptures. The first one is the Rapture of the Church, the second of the Tribulation saints.

The Bible is written for the saved and the unsaved, but it's going to be read by christians more than non christians. It's here to change lives and to change changed lives and to inform anyone.

In Revelation 1:5-6 we are told that Jesus has made the church(those who have put their faith in Christ alone for salvation) to be kings and priests unto God and His Father, that is the saved right now.

In Revelation 4:1 there is a door opened in heaven and a voice says come up here(rapture). In Rev. 4:4 we are introduced to 24 elders(a set and specific number). In Revelation 5:8-10 the 24 elders sing a new song to God and we find out they were redeemed out of every kindred, tongue people and nation, and find out God has made them to be kings and priests, just like we the church are told that we are in Rev. 1 5-6.

I agree with you that there is more than 1 rapture and I agree that the first is for the church. I believe that the church is a specific group of believers. But I believe according to Revelation and other places in the Bible that the first rapture of the dead and living believers, in Christ, of the church is definitely before the official tribulation period.

Revelation and Daniel say that the saints will be prevailed against and overcome by the antichrist, so this means believers will go through the tribulation. I agree that those who come to faith in Christ during the tribulation will have to endure it. But they are not the church. Jesus tells us in Matthew 16:18 that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church.

All believers are saints, but not all saints are part of the church.

The Church( a very specific group of believers in Christ) are removed from this earth before the tribulation. I believe this is clearly presented in the verses I have listed and there are other verses testifying to this fact also.

It does not make any difference and will have no effect on your eternal salvation. What will affect your eternal salvation is if there is secret sin in your life and any disobedience of any clear Scripture that pertains to holiness and righteousness. But Rapture prior or at the end of Tribulation is not a basic doctrine. The one basic Doctrine is that He is coming to take the Church, His body of believers who lived for Him and kept holy as He is holy. And holiness without no man shall see the Lord. Sin will keep one out of heaven and the pearly gates, as Jesus told those who professed they knew Him




We all have our Secret Sins, We all are born into sid and will have it till we lose these Bodys..

Thats why jesus said to always be praying and asking for forgiveness, For we do not know when we will be taken, So pray always for forgiveness..


WHEN WILL JESUS RETURN???
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;..." (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.)

From reading the above mentioned verses carefully, it definitely states that the coming of Christ and the translation of the living believers [saints] would not be until after the reign of the man of sin.



The anti christ will be reviled at the time of the First Rapture, When the dead bodys in Christ are taken out of the graves and the church will follow

The falling away is going on now, It has been going on since the prayers were taking out of schools and when (in God) has been center of the Courts and The other Christan Bashing has Started..






The man of sin MUST first be revealed. On this basis, we believe that Christ will appear to gather His saints to him after the reign of the Anti-Christ at the end of the tribulation. And we quote the Scriptures from the Holy Bible. So we can base our belief on what is written in the Bible.



You will have to rember that Noah and his family was saved from going through the Flood...

They to would have died if they were to go through the flood as all the others..
Jesus will protect his childern and his Church from going through the Tribulation as he kept Noah from being drowned in the flood....



"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place [see Dan. 11:3135], (whoso readeth, let him understand...

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be....



After the first 3 1/2 years ( when the Temple is rebilt),, The Abomination of Desolation is when the Anti christ will inter the Temple and at that Time the GREAT TIBULATION will began and Call himself christ


And at the same time, the Second Rapture will come about,,, This happens because of the 144,ooo that has been preaching the word and these are the ones that have excepted Christ and will be taken out just before the Great Tibulation will began..

This is the HELL on earth !!!!!!!!!

The 144,000 are still Preaching the word of God as the Great Tibulation is going and is still saving people but the anti Chirst is having then all killed becaues they still haven't taken the mark and He is now saying that he is the Christ..

For these that are saved at this time is why the days and nights will be shorten so they all will not be killed with all the others....










With the fifth seal, we are told WHY God would bring such judgments.
Souls have been slain for the word of God and their testimony, and when
the time is right the judgments will begin. In the meantime, the souls
of the slain are comforted with white robes and told to rest

Revelation 7:15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,


The ones that were Saved during the GREAT Tibulation..

These are the sants that were killed during the Great Tibulation and are said that there souls that are crying out from under the pulpit crying foe Jesus to take them out of this world so they can be with Him,, But Jesus tell then to hold on and it will be allover very soon....



Daniel 7:21,22 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.



The saints that came into the Great Tibulation with the help of the 144,000..










Matthew 24:15-22 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.


Juda will have to get out of Iseral or be killed..

They will be going to (PETRA) I think thats the way its spelled, It the city in the mountains where Satan will not be able to get into to kill Juda...




For these reasons is why we belive that the Church will be Called up before Tibulation..............

That was a good solid post all around.

Thank You Bro...

Ive heard of a occult version of rapture were aliens take you to be purified instead of god but either way its all fake.

Rapture is deseinged to scare and make you go on good behaviour for fear of hell. i think. its all lies

Originally posted by healthyhitter
Ive heard of a occult version of rapture were aliens take you to be purified instead of god but either way its all fake.

Rapture is deseinged to scare and make you go on good behaviour for fear of hell. i think. its all lies

Oh Really !!!!!!!!!!





Take as You want, For some of us it is a beautiful thing to look foward Too......

That reason doesnt even make sense.
Why would the rapture scare anyone if the second coming doesnt? Thats just dumb.

The word rapture, is in the latin version of the bible.
Rapture is a latin translation of the greek word for caught up.

If you are too ignorant to look at it to see that it exists, then it is YOU who are the liar.

because the non christians you call infidels well supposedly go to hell and if your on bad behaviour it says you well go to hell. see!

Originally posted by healthyhitter
because the non christians you call infidels well supposedly go to hell and if your on bad behaviour it says you well go to hell. see!

I didn't Know that Christins used the word infidels ?????????????


And as far as the Bad behaviour go's, You are always hoping that it's not that Bad and if it was, It time to ask for forgiveness NOW..

As far as sin goes, we all sin everyday, We wake up in Sin and to live as it is today, You can get call up in a sin before you can catch it, but when you relize it's happen, It just needs a little ( I'm sorry Father, Please forgive me) and it's gone Forever and Forever....

It's harder to Stop smoking, that it is to follow Jesus !!!!!!!

Seven stars 777 is correct

[edit on 29-6-2005 by Wisdumb]