Does China stand as any real military threat to the anglo- american world power?

Originally posted by Harlequin

well , based upon your theory that just leaves there nukes with multi megatonne war heads and 100+ delivery systems to mainland usa , oh and there mirv capable as well.

going to worry about them?

i leave out the nuclear option cause with nuclear option there is no discussion, no one wins, it's a lose lose situation.

ok bro

American ignorance shall be the downfall of the great US of A.

China currently does not pose a threat to America. You have many times more ICBM and SLBMs than us. You have more SSBN, SSN, DDG, and FFGs than us. They're in most terms better than ours too. You have 11 carriers, we have nada. You are the world's lone superpower, although we're up and coming, it is still at least 3 decades before we are a true superpower with global power projection.

China.....[/b]

I have always heard that China can muster a 200,000,000 Man and women Army in six months or less, That almost as many people that is in the USA
I don"t think that China and the USA will not really get with it as far as war goes..
China can bet any army in the world but they can not transport there troops just everywere but if they mass in Asia, there will not be away to stop then..

All you will have to give a Chinaese to march is Amo, Gun and all the Rice he can carry..

There 200,000,000 man army will be the last army to march on Israel !!!!!

If you guys want the quick ups on china, check out this article from robert d. kaplan in the atlantic monthly

Click here



Mod edit-to fix link,

[edit on 2-6-2005 by asala]

Doesn't the US supply a lot of China's food?

Originally posted by warpboost
Doesn't the US supply a lot of China's food?

yes... and also from south America, hence the increasing ties with Brazil and suchlike

China has worked hard to build what can only be described as the worlds biggest military target, the Three Gorges Dam. One the resivour behind it is filled, if the dam were to be breached and all that water released you would effect a large section of China's "bread basket" not to mention the damage to cities like Shanghai and Wu-Han (sp)

SO if they get frisky, they have alot of critical infrastructure that can cause alot of devestation if attacked.

I have already stated my point that the 3 gorges dam can not be destroyed with conventional weaponry... at least with any great ease.

It would take many multiple strikes... giving the chinese time to divert the water away and making the dam less usefull as a millitary target.

It would also allow them a great oppertunity to deal some heavy losses to US aircraft seeing as they will be waiting.

There are quite a few S-300's and assumedly the S-400 is based there as well

[edit on 2-6-2005 by Lucretius]

Originally posted by Lucretius
I have already stated my point that the 3 gorges dam can not be destroyed with conventional weaponry... at least with any great ease.

I asked my dad about this (civil engineer). He said it is a huge dam, but if they concentrate in one area they would be able to release enough water to do alot of damage. Given the penatrating ability of the bunker busters it is easily within the realm of possibility. He doubts that they would be able to rupture the dam at the base, but rather towards the top and the flowing water and stress would gradualy take out a bigger portion. He also said as with most dams the emergency spillways are always and easier target to go after as well, but would not cause as much damage or release of water unless they kept it at a dangerously high level to begin with.

Yes the site would be well protected, but a strike by several B-2's with say an ERSA equipped F-22's performing SEAD, that kind of package has a good chance against the air defences.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by Lucretius
I have already stated my point that the 3 gorges dam can not be destroyed with conventional weaponry... at least with any great ease.

I asked my dad about this (civil engineer). He said it is a huge dam, but if they concentrate in one area they would be able to release enough water to do alot of damage. Given the penatrating ability of the bunker busters it is easily within the realm of possibility. He doubts that they would be able to rupture the dam at the base, but rather towards the top and the flowing water and stress would gradualy take out a bigger portion. He also said as with most dams the emergency spillways are always and easier target to go after as well, but would not cause as much damage or release of water unless they kept it at a dangerously high level to begin with.

Yes the site would be well protected, but a strike by several B-2's with say an ERSA equipped F-22's performing SEAD, that kind of package has a good chance against the air defences.

Let's hope that never happens cause if that does happen it means that humanity is well on its way to blowing itself up. Although it's already kinda begun.

COWlan

Yea, once china become a superpower their ignorance will be thier downfall as well, all great empire rise and fall.

jfdarby

china cannot support a 200 million army, in a short time maybe, like few months, but their economy will be so mess up after that. China have no power projection yet.

Lucretius

i think the US will come up with something aganist it before they attack, maybe a special made bunker buster bomb?
or they can sent in special forces to blow it up ... which will be extreamly hard...

To blow up the three gorges dam is an act of war, not just limited war but all out war. Do that and expect a nuclear payback. Its not that you can't do it but would Americans attack a country which doesn't have a overwhelming threat to US and put millions of American lives on stake?

All super powers come to an end sometime and usually they don't last any more than two centuries and in that time there would be many many wars and possibly breakups too. America will fall sometime too and I'd say one more idiot like George Bush, America would be in ruins.

Originally posted by COWlan
Its not that you can't do it but would Americans attack a country which doesn't have a overwhelming threat to US and put millions of American lives on stake?

All super powers come to an end sometime and usually they don't last any more than two centuries and in that time there would be many many wars and possibly breakups too. America will fall sometime too and I'd say one more idiot like George Bush, America would be in ruins.

Nobody said America is, wants to, is or planning to do anything. The thread poster asked: Does China stand as any real military threat to the anglo- american world power? And people were providing their opinions, one of which happened to be that they have a huge target which could be taken out and cause massive damage.

All superpowers come to an end some day as does everything. The thing is though that America isn't Rome, or the British Empire and the founding fathers studied the downfalls of those empires to do everything they could to prevent repeating their mistakes. America has already lasted more than 2 centuries so I guess we are the exception?

China's original downfall was due to their ignorance. They believed too much in their own superiority and were very isolationist. They did not upgrade their navy. Remember, like many countries, China once had one of the world's greatest navies. The Chinese navy sailed the world displaying the Chinese ingenuity of their ships and Chinese wealth and power. The reason they stopped exploring was due to the cost. It is theorized they may even have discovered America before Columbus did, but no one knows for sure.

China was one the most advanced civilizations in the world at the time. What gets me is they could have stayed that way even longer, except they believed they were superior simply because they were superior through some mystical belief that they were a superior race. They were superior due to good engineering and research and so forth; if you do not do those things, you will fall. Which is what happened. The Chinese did not upgrade their navy while the Europeans did, and when the Chinese navy went against the British navy (I think it was the Brits) who wanted to forcefully open China to trade, it was no match for the British ships.

To this day, China resents the West for this very thing, because China still believes it is superior and they do not like that their county went to crapsville because the Europeans forced their way in.

From what I've seen, there's two views of China right now. One is that they are going to become a serious military threat to America in the future and will try to take back Taiwan. The other is that the latter view is ludicrous and that China is just strengthening its economy and making itself into a superpower because they want a nice country for its people and themselves, and that they aren't interested in war, but a country needs a strong military if it wants to protect its foreign interests.

I think both views are kind of right. I personally do not think China will become too large a threat to America because they want to live the sweet life and have a strong economy and all that. Also, the Japanese Navy is a force to match the Chinese Navy as well, and there is also the Taiwanese Navy. And the U.S. Navy. On the flip side however, China does NOT want the U.S. meddling around near them militarily and in regions they may want (they, Japan, and some other Asian countries all claim ownership of certain islands right now).

BTW, that airplane a few years ago was not in Chinese airspace, it was conducting surveillance righto utside of Chinese airspace, in international waters. Like the Soviet Union did, China sends up pilots who take a look at the aircraft and jsut make sure it keeps its distance. Unfortunately, these particular pilots happened to be hotshots from a sqadron that had a reputation for showboaters.

No one is sure exactly what happened, but the main theory is that the Chinese pilot was showboating and went too close to the American aircraft and hit one of the propellers on it. The Chinese pilot went down into the ocean while the surveillance plane struggled to stay in the air and the other Chinese pilot asked for permission to shoot down the American plane.

The American pilot decided to ask the Chinese if he could land in China. This was denied, but he did it anyway.

China says it was the U.S. aircraft's fault, the U.S. says it was China's fault. I'd have to go with it being the fault of the Chinese, not because I'm American, but because such pilots DO pull stunts around spy aircraft to intimidate the people inside. And also, why on Earth would an American spy aircraft pull any stunt on a Chinese fighter plane. That part makes absolutely no sense.

Bush did not make a formal apology as far as I know, because the the U.S. gov't did not acknowledge that it was the U.S. aircraft's fault. The U.S. did offer to help China find their pilot, which China denied and thus they never found their pilot.

The Chinese decided it was probably best to give back the crew of the aircraft as it probably is the truth that no American crew is going to pull a stunt in a SURVEILLANCE aircraft of all things on a fighter plane. But the crew DID land against permission, so China kept the aircraft itself (that is my guess).

There is also a huge debate as to what technology the Chinese got. Standard procedure for something like that from what I have heard from Navy pilots was to head out to sea regardless if there was advanced technology on board. From the Navy pilots who were on that ship and knew the pilot of that surveillance plane, there was not any advanced equipment on the aircraft by the time the Chinese got it (again all word of mouth from a Naval aviation site I was at).

great post Broadsword20068
infect i am going to vote for you , i got full 3 points to vote for this month anyway hehe

You have voted Broadsword20068 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Originally posted by COWlan
To blow up the three gorges dam is an act of war, not just limited war but all out war. Do that and expect a nuclear payback. Its not that you can't do it but would Americans attack a country which doesn't have a overwhelming threat to US and put millions of American lives on stake?

All super powers come to an end sometime and usually they don't last any more than two centuries and in that time there would be many many wars and possibly breakups too. America will fall sometime too and I'd say one more idiot like George Bush, America would be in ruins.

IF the US want to blow up the three gorges Dams then US and China is already at war, besides no one wins if US and China got all our war. Someone going to nuke someone first. You have to look at taiwan, they said they will blow up the three dams if China attacks them lol.

This is a vague question. What do you mean real military threat? If you mean are they able to do damage to the anglo-american military, anyone has the potential to do so, even plane hijackers with box cutters and people driving boats loaded with exolosives. If you mean defeat the anglo-american military completely, nobody can do that, and same goes the other way around. Nobody has the offensive capability to attack the US directly, and as for China, even if you somehow manage to defeat the main PLA military, you'd still be faced with a Vietnam style guerilla warfare except a hundred times worse and eventually the invaders will slowly bleed dry just like in Vietnam and have no choice but to go home. Not to mention any losing side armed with nukes might be desparate enough to use them.

china doesn't possess offensive capabilities w.r.t. overt military ops..
If the US attacks china in coastal waters.. then the US has their hands full...
China can't do much harm to Russia or India even.. its much more of a defensive force..

America has already lasted more than 2 centuries so I guess we are the exception?

The post you were responding to said that no superpower usually lasts more than 200 years. America has not been a superpower for 200 years.

I don't think that China is a threat to the US, but Eastern Russia might be useful for their huge population.

I am sure the US has plans to blow up the dam, its a nice big target for a neat bomb say a antimatter bomb or some sort of black project weapon. The wouldnt be using b52's with ww2 style bunker buster. Even if china drains the water that means the dam has been taken out anyways, what use is a hydroelectic power dam without any hydro?

Yeah China has nukes but so do the US but the US has a lot more of them plus lasers and the son of moab