Japan's F1-X Stealth fighter designs

These are old but are worthy of gold













How i wish this aircraft project was given a go-ahead.

[edit on 1-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

ummmmm.........so basically, you posted old pictures with no links or info.

BTW, one thing i've relized that a large majority of the threads you start...you dont post you take on it...which your supposed to.

Originally posted by Murcielago
ummmmm.........so basically, you posted old pictures with no links or info.

I dont have any info on it. Those pics are hosted on Imageshack

BTW, one thing i've relized that a large majority of the threads you start...you dont post you take on it...which your supposed to.

Alright here's my take : Pretty cool and looks stealthy too.

Those designs are very similar to some of the 1980's ATF concept art that was released ahead of the YF-22 and YF-23 being built.

Japan is not going to produce, or seek to co produce its F-X net generation fighter, which is intended to replace Japans F-4 Phantoms. Japan is still in the very early stages of selecting this fighter however and doesn't really know what sort of capability it wants, or is prepared to pay for. This can be seen by the fact that the current candidates for the order are the F/A-22, F-35, Rafale and Typhoon.

Clearly Japan would love to get the Raptor but possible issues there are the cost involved and also Japans requirement for a large percentage of each aircraft to be Japanese made and possibly also final assembly in Japan, the US might have serious issues with another country having so much access to Raptor manufacturing knowledge, only time will tell on all these counts.

Assuming these issues are unsurmountable then the other candidates start to look more realistic. The F-35, although basically a bomb truck is nevertheless a very capable fighter too and may be viewed as a starting point for a semi indegenous all-A2A version, a sort of 'Mitsubishi F-3' if you will. The minus point for this, as well as a straight buy of F-35's straight off the production line, is timescale as the service entry date for the US and UK F-35's is already up to three years later than Japan wants its own fighters, this could mean as long as a six year wait for a Japanese version and the Japanese really don't want to be flying F-4's beyond 2010.

This leaves the European competition and on the face of it there is no reason why either the Rafale or Typhoon cannot meet Japans needs, however for political reasons I think Japan is 95% likely to buy some sort of American option and I think this can be the only real reason why the final candidate is the long in the tooth F-15 as it is the only US option that is realistically available for Japan to buildf in the required time. The F-15 is a fine fighter aircraft and has been for four decades, which is the problem, it is odd, to my mind, that Japan, currently operating the extremely old fashioned F-4, now appears to be moving towards becoming the final customer for a fighter that will largely already be retired fropm the USAF before Japan recieves its first new one. The fact that the F-15 already serves Japan well is a point in its favour as commonality will reduce costs over the aircrafts life so this is what I think will happen;

option 1 - Japan, unable to obtain clearances for the F-22 and unable to wait for the F-35 will not be able to bring itself to buy from Europe despite its listing of Europes current finest among its candidates, and will opt for the least modern and least capable off all the options for political reasons.

option 2 - The only different outcome I can see is that the deadline will be extended and the JSDF be forced to soldier on with the F-4 so that the F-35/"Mitsubishi F-3" option becomes viable. Another way around it might be a lease of another type, maybe F-16's, so that the F-4 can be retired on time and still buy the F-35.

Either way I think Dassault and Eurofighter are wasting their time.

Any views on the above?

Stealth Spy is just trying to rack up points, or whatever kind of kudos you get around here, plus he is fulfilling his personal pledge to deny "ignorence". Keep up the good work.

Originally posted by backtoreality
Stealth Spy is just trying to rack up points, or whatever kind of kudos you get around here, plus he is fulfilling his personal pledge to deny "ignorence". Keep up the good work.

Quiet honestly i dont care a damn about these points. What use are they anyway other than changing colours, etc

It seems to me that it is you who is in need of these points. I mean look at yourself. You are at something like 145 and i am well over 30K. I am pretty sure this is a stupid post of a jelous n-e-w-b-i-e.

I have'nt seen one informative post from your end and all that you seem to be doing is complaining about some typing error or chucking around propaganda ridden ignorance.

Let me tell you that the only constant on ATS is change and the one needed is for you to grow up and grow a brain.



BTW : Waynos thanks for your informative post This guy has a lot to learn from you.

i need points i need points!

i wonder what black projects the japanese have and how much on them is us/japan?

Yes, I have wondered many times what the japanese would do if they had a real interest in weapon race or they had a real army... in many things they are well beyond the rest... and they have shown a big capacity to develope the areas they are not good in...

Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's cabinet, the Defence Agency and the trade ministry will hold further talks over Japan's participation in the programme before seeking approval of the ruling coalition, the Sankei Shimbun said, quoting a defence industry source.

"It is now difficult for a single country to be engaged in such development," the unnamed source told the newspaper.

A Defence Agency spokesman, however, told AFP the government has not "officially begun consideration of such international military development."

Japan cleared the way for such projects by establishing new defence guidelines this month that said the country needed "multi-function, flexible defense capabilities" to deal with new threats such as terrorist and missile attacks.

Full article.....

Hey,

Just out of interest, do the Japanese still have limits on the amount and types of weapon systems that the can employ based on the old WW2 restrictions, I can honestly say I am not sure if they are still in effect and if so, would this have an effect on any future choices they make.

Plus, I can't seem them going for the F-35 option, based on the fact that they prefer to build most of their aircraft in their own back yard, I can see the Gripen or Eurofighter rating high on the list, the Gripen with a lead due to the abilities in the Martime role for which it was partly designed, and with Japan being an Island Nation, I see that was a plus, also I feel that so far the makers of the Gripen have been more than will to have units produced in the customers country depending that some of the construction is undertaken in the home country.

- Phil

japan is not allowed to deploy "offensive weaponry"

^^ They'll just dub it as defensive systems and get stuff under the pretext of self-defence.

IMO the Chinese threat to Japan is real and the self-defence excuse is valid.

not sure but I'm not sure that the F-35 is that good, (Sorry) A steathy Rafale, Grp or euro can carry more. The U.S. Will not allow for the F22 or F35 to be built anyware else other than Lockmart towers.

As for the Japs the FA-18 block 3 may suit, payload, range and a type of sort of semi stealth.

Back to the F-35, thay may even be different levels of stealth on the dam things. The internal weps payload has gotten smaller so as I say just not sure!

RAB

I personally like the JSF but yeah the Japanese will def want to build in their own backyard. I think that the F/A-18 is the best option for them. Maybe the F-15 for superiority....maybe. Theyre also putting a missile defense system in place around Tokyo in case of NK and Chinese threats.

They already got F-15Js. Koreans have F-15Ks. Both are in the same class and almost the same in capability, probably made in the same factory too although I'm not too certain of the locations where Lockheed builds its fighters.

What can China attack Japan with? Not much actually, as long as America's behind the Japs back, there's not gonna be anything happening. Japan and Korea might have to fight over Dokdo though so America's gonna stay out of that one.

I was talkin about F-15E's, sorry for the confusion. But I think because of theyre relations with the US they will go with the JSF, then just modify it or sumthin.

Theyre also putting a missile defense system in place around Tokyo in case of NK and Chinese threats.

Yes, because the Patriot Missile system is so accurate, how could the North Koreans or China ever hit Japan with a missile. If it comes down to it, if North Korea wants to, it'll nuke Japan... after which North Korea will be destroyed.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Let me tell you that the only constant on ATS is change and the one needed is for you to grow up and grow a brain.

You mean, to the same level of maturity that you exemplify in your posts? Thanks for the tip.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
all that you seem to be doing is complaining about some typing error

Just to clarify, a typing error is inadvertently pressing the wrong key. Such as in "I am on a personal quest to deny ignorancw". However, spelling ignorance [ignorence] over and over is not, by definition, a typing error. That is called repeatedly misspelling a word.

But don't let it bother you, I also happen to be on a personal mission to deny ignorance. It just seems that we have differing definitions.

p.s. I like the change to the avatar; looks great!

Originally posted by RAB
The internal weps payload has gotten smaller so as I say just not sure!

Only on the B variant.

Originally posted by Ponderosa

Theyre also putting a missile defense system in place around Tokyo in case of NK and Chinese threats.

Yes, because the Patriot Missile system is so accurate, how could the North Koreans or China ever hit Japan with a missile. If it comes down to it, if North Korea wants to, it'll nuke Japan... after which North Korea will be destroyed.

Patriot Missile System... Accurate.... LOL

In the recent invasion of Iraq, a Patriot Missile Battery Shot down a "slow" moving Tornado, that was on finals, or approaching its home base. Sure it was accurate then but they did launch some thing like 3 missiles at it, only one hitting it. I suppose 33% is better than nothing. I would be nervous if ?I had to fly in the same area as it, espically when AMERICAN pilots have to shoot at them! to defend themselves from it. PLUS how can you mistake a 300 knot approach to be a mach 1 missile?

Within one week of the tragic Patriot shootdown of the Tornado a US Navy F-18 pilot was killed by a Patriot over Karbala, Iraq, and a US Air Force F-16 had to fire in self-defense on another Patriot unit that was about to attack. It is clear that the flawed and automated artificial intelligence in the Patriot units played a critical role in each of these two other incidents.

I don't know I still feel that the Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale still have a chance, they be built in Japan, have room for growth and on the most part are already in squadron service. You can't get it any more off the shelf than that.

Hell there are rumblings all the time about the JSF being delayed with service in the RN and from all regards its becoming an important issue, we very well may have new aircraft carriers and no aircraft on them!

- Phil

www.commondreams.org...
www.cbsnews.com...://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030329-patriot01.htm
cbs11tv.com...
www.cdi.org...



[edit on 3-6-2005 by gooseuk]