U.S. Suspends Arrow and THEL Collaboration with Israel

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Its not looks chinawhite, its ground reality.

Is there any shortage of any sources on the internet (neutral and Chinese) that give info on the J-10 being nothing but a LAVI with chinesemarkings ??

Thats what i've beening asking for. do you give any info ....NO

The J-10 is based on the Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI)’s Lavi fighter. After the Lavi programme was cancelled in 1987, its design was taken over by CAC, and IAI carried on with the development of avionic equipment.

www.sinodefence.com...

Six years ago, U.S. government reports accused Israel of illegally transferring U.S. technology from the largely U.S.-funded Lavi fighter plane program to China. China's new J-10 fighter jet is nearly identical to the Lavi.

www.rense.com...

China's J-10 is fully based on the Israeli Lavi, an Israeli plane subsidized with $1.4 billion in U.S. tax dollars.

www.solargeneral.com...

Apparently, Chinese engineers are trying to develop the J-10 from a single F-16 provided by Pakistan, and with assistance from Israeli engineers associated with Israel’s US-financed Lavi fighter program, which was cancelled in 1987.

It is reported that the Jian-10's radar and fire-control system is the Israeli-made ELM-2021 system, which can simultaneously track six air targets and lock onto the four most-threatening targets for destruction. Some experts believe that the Israeli contribution will focus on avionics and radar, with Russia supplying the engines. In December 1991, US intelligence officials announced that Israel was planning to open a government coordinated and sponsored "arms office" in the PRC. In light of what the Israelis have to offer, and what the Chinese need, it was most likely that a transfer of avionics and other technologies developed in the Lavi program would ensue, since there is a void in the Chinese avionics and fire control system capability due to the 1989 termination of a US/Chinese program in response to Tienanmen square.

China and Israel started collaboration in the early 1980's and full-scale cooperation was underway officially by 1984. After the 1987 cancellation of the Lavi, it was taken over by CAIC and the IAI carried on with the development of avionic equipment.

Since neither China nor Israel is capable of developing the propulsion system required by the J-10, in 1991 China acquired the AI31F turbofan engine from Russia for incorporation into the J-10 fighter.

www.fas.org...

David Lari, director general of Israel's Ministry of Defense, acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that "some technology on aircraft" had been sold to China and that some Israeli companies may not have "clean hands".

Though it has never been certain precisely what specific technologies and systems Israel provided, it was reported that the Jian-10's radar and fire-control system is the Israeli-made ELM-2021 system, which can simultaneously track six air targets and lock on to the four most threatening targets for destruction.

the US Office of Naval Intelligence in its unclassified "Worldwide Challenges to Naval Strike Warfare" restated more strongly than it had the previous year its belief that US-derived technology from the canceled Israeli Lavi fighter was being used on China's new F-10 fighter. It said, "The design has been undertaken with substantial direct external assistance, primarily from Israel and Russia, with indirect assistance through access to US technologies." In fact, according to the annual intelligence report, "the J-10 is a single-seat, light multi-role fighter based heavily on the canceled Israeli Lavi program".

Until it was canceled in 1987, much of Lavi technological development was paid for by the United States. Ironically, the potential capability of J-10 fighters was cited by both the US Navy and Air Force as one of the future threats justifying the expenditure of billions on new tactical aircraft, such as the F-22, F/A-18F, and Joint Strike Fighter. The fact that possibly US-derived technology provided by an ally might be contributing to that potential threat is a delicate subject.

atimes.com...

Latest Chinese Warplane Flies with US Technology

"In the late 1980s, at least 20 engineers from Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) were part of the fighter's design team at Chengdu."

"IAI also helped with windtunnel testing in the early design stage. The Israeli presence has been scaled down in the last three years"

"The Israeli design and development input in the programme is valued at more than $500 million. Overall programme costs are said to top $5 billion"

Link

China is a nation that uses piracy as an Industrial strategy, they do that in almost everything from cars to DVDs to operating systems.Now aircrafts. not surprising at all.

What do you have to say now chinawhite ??


[edit on 3-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

LOL how embarassing for you. those to articles that say that the J-10 is a copy of the LAVI was released even before pictures of the j-10 were even known.

and your claimings have no edvidence of it being a copy of the LAVI

the words mentioned are based. you seem unable to grasp the basic english language. Copied and based are to very different words. understand now

You seem to be laughing at yourself.

Are you trying to tell me that the J-10 has nothing related to the Lavi despite all the evidence i have given you ?

First you go on to say that the J-10 is a completely indegenous airplane. Next you claim that there are no links on the net on the topic.

here are links which clearly say that Israel is responsible for the design and development and also suggest that the J-10's radar is israeli tech. Infact Israel's man in charge has himself admitted to the fact that the majority of the J-10 is from the Lavi.

And now yet again you're trying to wriggle out by making insane personal attacks.

Think of telling things to a brick wall.

You exemplify the opposite of "Deny Ignorance"

once again the 2 of you have managed to drag your pointless arguements into yet another thread.

isreal? just needs to be cut off

chinawhite if your aussie why are you so prochinese? living the good life in aus yet upholding china's way of treating "allies" and its people, working them to the born? Isreal sold a copy to china who in turn copied.

Wonder what Isreal would do or could do if its US $ life blood was cut?

I am so tired of Isreal they are nothing but act like they are something special only thanks to is watch dog the US, i pray for the day that the US stops funding the Isrealis but with the Neo-Cons in power it will be a cold day in isrea.....heck before that happens.

Originally posted by Char2c35t
isreal? just needs to be cut off

chinawhite if your aussie why are you so prochinese? living the good life in aus yet upholding china's way of treating "allies" and its people, working them to the born? Isreal sold a copy to china who in turn copied.

Wonder what Isreal would do or could do if its US $ life blood was cut?

I am so tired of Isreal they are nothing but act like they are something special only thanks to is watch dog the US, i pray for the day that the US stops funding the Isrealis but with the Neo-Cons in power it will be a cold day in isrea.....heck before that happens.

are you stupid israel never sold china one. they sold china there blueprints. china used parts of the LAVI combined with chinas own j-9 and a lot of other designs into a whole new airframe.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
You seem to be laughing at yourself.

Are you trying to tell me that the J-10 has nothing related to the Lavi despite all the evidence i have given you ?

First you go on to say that the J-10 is a completely indegenous airplane. Next you claim that there are no links on the net on the topic.

And now yet again you're trying to wriggle out by making insane personal attacks.

Think of telling things to a brick wall.

You exemplify the opposite of "Deny Ignorance"

the j-10 is a indegenious design. they used parts of the LAVI into chinas own design.

i never claimed there was none i said you have never showed me "creditable" edvidence.

The only people that know how the j-10 was designed is he designers.

quote: David Lari, director general of Israel's Ministry of Defense, acknowledged in an Associated Press interview that "some technology on aircraft" had been sold to China and that some Israeli companies may not have "clean hands".

here are links which clearly say that Israel is responsible for the design and development and also suggest that the J-10's radar is israeli tech. Infact Israel's man in charge has himself admitted to the fact that the majority of the J-10 is from the Lavi.

LoL i throught they said that israel was responible for majority of the design??

it seems that he only mention that some tech is of israelie origin

it seems you have misread the information again.


It feels like talking to a brick wall. you have started many threads which you intend to mock china but ends up with you being mocked. but then you make a new one.

its a nevering ending cycle with you.

I point out your insane comments while you just keep repeating what i have already disproved.

Yup, the Chinese did have a lot of inspiration for the J-10. It wasn't all just a copy of the Lavi. Although, it was still built with the help of Israeli and Russian engineers...

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
Yup, the Chinese did have a lot of inspiration for the J-10. It wasn't all just a copy of the Lavi. Although, it was still built with the help of Israeli and Russian engineers...

yes you are complety right.

china uses russian/israeli tech in the j-10 but its not a russian system or israeli system its a chinese one

Stealth Spy, give it up already. All this smegging of China's military still does not change the fact that China's military is still stronger than India's military and modernizing faster and faster, therefore the US views China as a probable threat to the current east Asian scenario. As from this post onwards I will ignore all baseless claims of yours (J-10 is just another Lavi, Type-98 laser uses Israeli tech, blah, blah, blah).

[edit on 4/6/05 by W4rl0rD]