U.S. Suspends Arrow and THEL Collaboration with Israel

The Jerusalem Post has reported that the U.S. suspended its cooperation with Israel on the Arrow and Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL) missile defense projects. Ms. Glick, the author of the very article references an official source quoted by Middle East Newsline as saying of the pullback from military cooperation, “It’s all about China.”

Israel is the largest exporter of high-tech weapons to China. The Pentagon fears that China could, among other things, use its Israeli weapons against U.S. forces in a future Taiwan conflict. Glick notes that Israel should stop arming the Chinese or risk damaging its strategic relationship with the U.S. She also notes that by arming China, Israel is actually helping its regional enemies. China of course also exports weapons to Iran and Pakistan.

Read Article.. (requires registration)

Also read all the pages 2,3,4 of : U.S. Suspends Israel from JSF Project.

This is good news that we suspended cooperation on these projects.

Frankly... I dont understand why we would get involved with them to begin with.

I dont know why the second we are on the verge of comming out with the first Mega-watt class military defensive lasers in the world we give it to someone else. Pure stupidity.

o well...... Poor guys lost a portion of their free military toys.

This is good news.

-Reason

[edit on 2-6-2005 by REASON]

The Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL) is a joint project of the United States and Israel designed to destroy short-range ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, ground- and air-launched rockets, unmanned aerial vehicles, mortar shells, and artillery projectiles. It consists of an advanced radar that detects and tracks incoming rockets, and a high-energy laser beam that destroys them.

Read more details....Link

Check this out :

"The Defense Intelligence Agency suspects Israel shared with China restricted U.S. weapons technology obtained during a joint U.S.-Israeli effort to build a battlefield laser gun," writes Gertz on Jan. 27. U.S. employees have twice "spotted Chinese technicians working secretly with one of the Israeli companies involved in the laser weapon program." A Chinese official in Israel exhibited hard knowledge of the super-secret program to build lasers to shoot down the Katyusha rockets used by Hezbollah on Israeli towns.

Israel has been charged before with betraying vital U.S. secrets. In 1992, The Washington Times reported Israel had given Beijing the secret technology of the U.S. Patriot missile. A U.S. investigation found that, while Beijing had acquired the secrets of the Patriot, it could not say for sure who gave them up.

Arms expert Duncan Clarke wrote in the July 22 Christian Science Monitor that Israel has used "U.S. technology to assist China in developing its next fighter aircraft -- the J-10 -- airborne radar systems, tank programs and a variety of missiles. Over vigorous Pentagon objections, Israel has apparently transferred to China the most lethal air-to-air missile in the world: the Python 4. This system employs an advanced helmet-mounted sight, developed together by American and Israeli firms."

China's J-10 is a copy of the Israeli Lavi, an Israeli plane subsidized with $1.4 billion in U.S. tax dollars. As ominous, writes Clarke, is "Israel's transfer to China of its STAR-1 cruise missile technology (that) ... incorporates U.S. stealth technology and is ... 'a growth version' of Israel's Delilah-2 missile, which contains U.S. parts and technology."

Link

I suspect that this laser tech has gon into China's T-98 tank :

The Type 98 features an JD-3 integrated laser rangefinder/warning/self-defence device. The Chinese system apparently uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner.

The system includes what appears to be a laser warning receiver (LWR - the dome-shaped device on the turret roof behind the commander's position), that warns the crew that their tank is being illuminated by an enemy range-finding or weapon-guidance laser. The turret of the tank can then be traversed to face the direction of the enemy threat, and the laser self-defence weapon ('___'W - the box-shaped device on the turret roof behind the gunner's position), can be employed against the source of the enemy laser.

The procedure of the laser weapon would first use a low-powered beam to locate the optics of the enemy weapon. Once the enemy weapon was located, the power level of the laser would be immediately and dramatically increased. Such an attack would disable the guidance optics of the enemy weapon and/or damage the eyesight of the enemy gunner.

The available photos of the Type 98 have also confirmed that the laser weapon can be elevated to a higher angle than the tank's main gun, indicating that the engagement of attack helicopters is possible. In addition, the laser device could also be used for communications between friend tanks.

Link

and most of all, giving it to a country that well likely use it just to kill more innocent kids is a even worse idea

Well good!


Maybe they will remember where their bread is buttered.

and most of all, giving it to a country that well likely use it just to kill more innocent kids is a even worse idea

What a dumb statement.

Frankly... I dont understand why we would get involved with them to begin with

Israel has been America's puppet in the Middle East for half a century now. We needed them for a long time incase any Arab nation tried to screw us, or say Russia took action. You'll find America has one of these in every region.

I think at this point, though, Israel has outlived its purpose to us. We get nothing for helping them anymore, as we will have permanent bases in Afghanitan and Iraq, and we'll be able to use those for a lot more then we would Israel. Seperating from the Israelis will do a lot for our image in the Middle East in the longrun.

It didn't help Israel any that they've been screwing us for so long with China, and there's a good chance they in fact knew about 9/11, and could have prevented it.

Israel has created this situation.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
Israel has created this situation.

IMo its America that has created the situation.

Why are Israel doing this ?
Ans : Because china are paying them good money for it.

Where is china getting this money ?
Ans : Through a 60+ billion annual trade surplus by trading with the United States.

In the past decade China have had ~800 billion trade surplus by trading with the United states.

check this out.

The PL-8 infrared homing short-range air-to-air missile is a Chinese licensed production version of the Israeli Python-3.

China and Israel agreed on the deal of Python-3 technology and its licensed production in 1982, and the transfer began in September 1983.

The J-10 carrying the missile


www.sinodefence.com...

PL-9
Apart from its control surfaces the PL-9 is almost identical to the Israeli Python-3, which was developed from the AIM-9L. The one major difference, according to information in Jane's All the World's Aircraft, is that the PL-9 has only about one-third the range of the Python 3.

China has improved upon the PL-9 by marrying it to an apparent copy of the Arsenel helmet sight from the R-73.

source : www.sinodefence.com...

PL-9D (DK-9)
The missile was a derived from the PL-9 short-range infrared-homing air-to-air missile (AAM), which was reported to be a Chinese copy of the Israeli Python-3.

The production of the PL-9D/DK-9 began in 1991, with a limited number in current service of the PLA and Pakistani Army.

The USA should be weary of Italy too

PL-11 Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile

The PLA began to approach the Italian Alenia Aspide missile technology in the late 1980s when China and Western countries started limited co-operations in the military fields against the threat of the Soviet Union. The Aspide missile was derived from the U.S. AIM-7E Sparrow missile with air-to-air, ship-to-air, and ground-to-air variants for air, naval, and ground service respectively.

Italy concluded a deal with China in the late 1980s that involves provision of the air-launched Aspide to the PLAAF. China received several small batches of missiles and relevant technology, which was initially used to improve the domestic HQ-61 surface-to-air missile.

In the early 1990s the 2nd Shanghai Bureau started a new medium-range AAM programme based on the HQ-61C surface-to-air missile, which has been improved with the Aspide technology. It was designated PL-11

source : www.sinodefence.com...

The US should not sell stuff to Pakistan as well :

The PL-4 is a Chinese copy of the U.S. AIM-7B Sparrow.(which it recieved from pakistan)

www.sinodefence.com...

This is a forum to speak about weaponry isn't it? There are dozens and dozens of threads where people discuss their problems with Israel's political policies. Why sidetrack an interesting weaponry related thread with politics?

To return to the topic, I am in agreement that the United States would be irresponsible to share technology with anyone who will take it and give it to others to make money. That's just dangerous foreign policy that will bite you in the rear end later.

Collaboration is a great idea, but if one team member is not acting properly, so it goes.

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Djarums]

Stealth spy.

you are pathertic.

china is legally obtaining tech from israel.

its not like china stole this tech.

Indias doing the same thing but is so stupid doesn't produce here own.

During the series of airborne confrontations, a Chinese jet crashed after colliding with a U.S. spy plane, killing the Chinese pilot and disabling the U.S. plane. The incident sparked a bitter diplomatic row as China detained the American crew for 11 days.

Had Chinese fighter pilots been given the order to fire, they could have brought down the U.S. planes with Israeli Python III derrived missiles.

U.S. technology given to the Israelis in the form of the Sidewinder missile was used in the development of the Python, said Larry Wortzel, former U.S. Army attache in Beijing and now a military analyst at the Heritage Foundation.

U.S. defense chiefs say Israel sold China the missiles without informing the United States.

“Generally speaking, we’re not in favor of such capable weapons systems being proliferated to a variety of nations around the world,” Rear Adm. Craig Quigley said in a Pentagon briefing last year. “That’s a good missile, and its capabilities are considerable.”

www.ifamericansknew.org...

“The Israelis wouldn’t be where they are today if they didn’t have the Americans behind them,” said Bjorn Hagelin, an arms sales researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

Source

Six years ago, U.S. government reports accused Israel of illegally transferring U.S. technology from the largely U.S.-funded Lavi fighter plane program to China. China's new J-10 fighter jet is said to be nearly identical to the Lavi.

Analysts said that in addition to reaping profits and lowering defense production costs, Israel believes arms sales to China raises its influence with Beijing and gains it vital intelligence about its enemies, with whom China does business.

"Israel ranks second only to Russia as a weapons system provider to China and as a conduit for sophisticated military technology" according to a recent report by the U.S.-China Security Review Commission, a panel established by Congress to examine security and economic relations between the two countries.

"Recent upgrades in target acquisition and fire control, probably provided by Israeli weapons specialists, have enhanced the capabilities of the older guided missile destroyers and frigates" in the Chinese navy's inventory, it said.

The commission, cited Israel as a supplier to Beijing of radar systems, optical and telecommunications equipment, drones and flight simulators.

"Israel has established itself as an important exporter of high-technology niche weapons containing more sophisticated technology than what is provided by Russia," it said.

More....


Check out : Israel, China Celebrate 10 Years of Ties

Israel-China Business Cooperation Conference

....China is the major target of Israeli business in next decades. Israel has wide variety of interests in the Chinese market. Its key interests are high-tech, biotech, homeland security, telecommunication, information technology, environmental protection, agriculture and infrastructure. He hopes to expand cooperation with China in these fields. Israel hopes to make "a little contribution" to China's preparation .....

The US funded Israeli LAVI

[img]http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/lavi/lavi2.jpg[img]

The Chinese J-10 (large amount tech given by Israel)
external image

The Pentagon’s undersecretary of defence for policy Doug Feith accused top Israeli defence ministry official on an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) deal between Israel and the People’s Republic of China (PRC), and claimed that this has caused a confidence crisis between the Pentagon and the Israeli MoD.

Israel’s Channel Two television reported on 15 December that Feith had demanded the resignation of retired Maj. Gen. Amos Yaron, the widely respected and longtime director-general of Israel’s MoD. According to the reports, Feith was ‘outraged’ that he was not informed the UAV sale to China few years ago, and demanded the resignation of retired Maj. Gen. Amos Yaron, the widely respected and long-time director-general of Israel’s MoD.

This is also the first time that the existence of such a deal between China and Israel is confirmed. China reportedly acquired some unknown number of the Israeli Aerospace Industry (IAI)’s Harpy Attack UAV in 1994. In summer 2004 some of these UAVs were sent back to Israel to be upgraded for better performance. The Pentagon has already demanded that Israel not to deliver these UAVs to China, even though they are properties of the PRC.

Link

Where is china getting this money ?
Ans : Through a 60+ billion annual trade surplus by trading with the United States.

And how much money do you think America is making off China, and how do you think their cheap goods are improving things in America?

America is the one getting the better deal.

I realize that means nothing to you over in India. Good luck with China!

The US should not sell stuff to Pakistan as well

We haven't for some time, and it's doubtful they'd be getting anything besides what they've already purchased. We loose nothing by selling them some more F-16's.

This is a forum to speak about weaponry isn't it? There are dozens and dozens of threads where people discuss their problems with Israel's political policies. Why sidetrack an interesting weaponry related thread with politics?

Well, war and politics are the same thing. Talking about one without the other just doesn't make sense.

If you don't think politics is involved here, then you're insane.

china is legally obtaining tech from israel.

Legally, yet they hide most of it, and deny it when asked.

Had Chinese fighter pilots been given the order to fire, they could have brought down the U.S. planes with Israeli Python III derrived missiles.

I doubt the Chinese pilot would have crashed into the spy plane if he could have shot it down. Even I find it hard to believe Chinese pilots are that incompetent.

Originally posted by chinawhite
Stealth spy.

you are pathertic.

Thanks for the compliments. I guess any post that does not blow sunshine up China's ### is pathetic in your world

china is legally obtaining tech from israel.

Israel is not honouring its commitment to the US by secretly giving China patented US tech

its not like china stole this tech.

I agree. Its not China's fault. Its Israel's

Indias doing the same thing but is so stupid doesn't produce here own.

India buys Israeli tech but its not secret and has US approval.

Infact US approved the sale of the Israeli Phalcon AWACS(compareable to the latest E-3) to India but blocked the sale to China.

Infact the US itself is offering India some latest tech like the F/A-18 SuperHornet with AESA, exclusive block 70 F-16, PAC-3 missiles, P-3C Orion, C-130J, peaceful nuclear tech, etc with technology transfer and lisence production.

Heck, India is the world's largest democracy and the US has no problems with India. Its China that everyone dislikes.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
The Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL) is a joint project of the United States and Israel

Technically yes, even though the U.S is paying the lion's share of the cost.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Heck, India is the world's largest democracy and the US has no problems with India. Its China that everyone dislikes.

why would we care what the US thinks of china. the end story is america still trades with china. The trade surplus china has with the US is to improve the lives of ordinary chinese civillians. building extra roads dams health care.

If india had all that surplus they would spend it on their military and they vandetta againest pakistan.

how pathetic is that and their meant to be a demoracy

Certain groups dislikes china because china is a large power.
France and germany and many other european countries depend on china for markets and exports. Numerous african countries depend on chinas investment and aid because they have been ignored by the west.

almost nearly every country next to india is a friend of chinas. you call

india is not very important. if it disapears from the face of the earth the world
the world ecomony is not going to grow slower its not missing any importants resources. No scientific breakthroughs.

what is india putting in to the world ecomony??

call centers.

why would we care what the US thinks of china. the end story is america still trades with china. The trade surplus china has with the US is to improve the lives of ordinary chinese civillians. building extra roads dams health care.

You do realize that China's military budget has skyrocketed, don't you? Most of your little welfare programs are robbed by your corrupt officials.

what is india putting in to the world ecomony??

I'd say the same thing China is putting in, which is cheap labor.

the j-10 looks like the eurofighter to. are you going to say china copied it??

Eurofighter


J-10

Its not looks chinawhite, its ground reality.

Is there any shortage of any sources on the internet (neutral and Chinese) that give info on the J-10 being nothing but a LAVI with chinesemarkings ??