Nukes best thing that happend to Japan.

Ok, the thing people are misunderstanding here is that it may have been necessary to avoid a larger body count, perhaps calling it a "necessary evil" but it was still an evil. The fact that we are Americans does not hide the fact that we cannot escape the horrifying reality that we are human...

The killing of hundreds of thousands of lives, no matter who they were or what they did, is evil no matter how you slice it...

I never said it was a good thing. It was justified however. I would certainly never say I was proud of it.
WWII was probably humanities darkest hour. It was a really horrible time.

ANd why the hell did that double post?
huh, I could of sworn a second ago that it did that again but now...nevermind.

[Edited on 7-8-2003 by Langolier]

What do you call the bombing of CIVILIAN, NON-MILITARY TARGETS in order to INFLUENCE a government's policies?

Let's call it State-Sponsored Terrorism, brought to you in searing, flesh-boiling technicolor by Uncle Sam. Let's call it Mass Murder. Let's call it Dresden Part II.

"Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen as targets because of their concentration of activities and population."
- U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, U.S. War Department, 1945.

Doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy?

Here's a good quote too, from www.ihr.org...

"If the Germans had dropped atomic bombs on cities instead of us, we would have defined the dropping of atomic bombs on cities as a war crime, and we would have sentenced the Germans who were guilty of this crime to death at Nuremberg and hanged them."

And a good quote from a well known Admiral:

"Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:

It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan ... The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons ... My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."


There's no way you can justify the incineration of tens of thousands of civilians because your CALCULATIONS say it will, in the long run, probably, in your expert opinion, save more lives than it will take.

Aa "civilian" target was the only thing we could attack. They were expecting a millitary attack so we'd be screwed. Plus the civilians were being trade to fight. All Asian nations fight to the death and train thr civilians. Look at the Vietcong they had 14 year olds figthing. It was the right choice,millions would've died if we did not drop the bomb.

"A "civilian" target was the only thing we could attack. They were expecting a millitary attack so we'd be screwed. Plus the civilians were being trade to fight. All Asian nations fight to the death and train thr civilians. Look at the Vietcong they had 14 year olds figthing. It was the right choice,millions would've died if we did not drop the bomb. "

Come again? All Asian nations fight to the death and train their civilians? Do you think Communist China hands out rifles to all their citizens? Was their some poll I missed out on? What about if YOUR country was being invaded, would you not fight to the death too? I'd be on my John Deere mower braining people with a shovel if I had to. Would your resistance to invaders somehow be more valiant and patriotic as opposed to a Japanese citizen's resistance?

And the Vietcong fought with 14 year olds because they were being INVADED and they were doing everything they could to survive. And those 14 year olds were enough to drive the most power military force in the world OUT of their country. The Vietcong beat the U.S., through guerrilla war tactics (Iraq anyone?).

"It was the right choice,millions would've died if we did not drop the bomb. "

That's an opinion, you don't know that for a fact, nobody does. Were you involved in negotiating the terms of surrender in WWII? You should read up on it before predicating your opinion on a baseles prediction.

I can't see how dropping atomic bombs can EVER be "the right choice".

Well said Jakomo

Ok, we kill 200,000 people with two bombs, we in the wrong. We kill the same amount with napalm and conventional bombs, we just fighting a war.

Wait, we were fighting a war. Guess who supported Japan? The JAPANESE! Guess who was trained/training to fight off a land invasion that would cost the lives of thousands if not millions of allies and Japanese? The JAPANESE! Guess who started the war? THE JAPANESE!

If they never would have attacked us, we never would have gotten involved. They attacked, they started it, but in the end we finished it trying to save as many lives as possible.

nothing anyone has said has justified dropping those nukes. America, being the superpower as it is, and all it's allies, could have easily forced Japan to surrender with few casualties.......excuses like "they were training everyone to kill us" are just that, excuses. There was no thought or reason behind those attacks other than laziness and evil.

Japenese innocent civilians? Hahahahaha!!!! They were training with guns, knives, sticks, anything to ready themselves for an invasion. The people were trainging their kids to fight. The women were even learning how to fight with weapons.

I would consider those innocent.
Its seems no different then what your america is doing to itself now.
They were doign this to defend themselves and what they were fighting for.
Dropping a nuke on 200 000 lives, is no joking matter.
Lets just say "a bitch will always be a bitch" The definition of war has changed drasticly since the creation of bombs.
Its no longer war, its who has the biggest bomb.
Deep

That's something I find odd. When it's us, we expect a nation to lay down their weapons and get on their knees in surrender to the great America. Some of that great American arrogance/ignorance...

Arrognorance?

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
For anyone who says it was a good idea obviously have no concern for other peoples lives. If it were you or your family that was caught in that horrible incident, you'd be singing a completely different tune...

Well simply put, Its the lesser of two evils. Nuke japan, kill 40,000 Japanese (Some who may grow to be soldier, or shoot an invading US marine int he back of the head)

Or, Spend 1 Million American lives taking Japan.

Now its not that hard, Them or us?
Im satisified with the cours eof action taken. If we had invaded my grandfather might not have been my grandfather

War's war people. People die, civilians die. Honestly, Japan deserved it... Diplomats talking peace while hundreds of Japanese planes bomb sleeping americans in pearl harbor. And people complain that they got bombed?.....

Originally posted by chebob
nothing anyone has said has justified dropping those nukes. America, being the superpower as it is, and all it's allies, could have easily forced Japan to surrender with few casualties.......excuses like "they were training everyone to kill us" are just that, excuses. There was no thought or reason behind those attacks other than laziness and evil.

Are you unaware of the sheer population density in japan? How near impossible it would be to invade and lose few lives? America was sick of losing hundreds of thousands of men to foreign countries.. The nukes ended the war and saved hundreds of thousands of American lives. IN war, Its all about YOUR country, not theirs.

Actually, the total Japanese body count was closer to 230,000. Besides, since when did we not have air superiority? I HIGHLY doubt we would have lost as many troops as calculated. Despite the reason it was done, there was no nobility it in what-so-ever...

Well, then heres an idea.

"The fighting over the small, sparsely populated islands of Okinawa had killed 14,000 Americans and 200,000 Japanese, and in the main islands the toll would have run into the millions. ""

That was over a little island. And you think the mainland invasionw ould go smooth?.. Ok.

And speaking of air superiority. Sure w emight have had a little. But all we had were carriers and 1 or 2 make shift bomber bases on captured jap islands. Defiently not enough to bomb an entire country into submission.

We had hundreds of thousands of bombers in Europe, germany didnt surrender until we had bombed every square inch.


[Edited on 7-8-2003 by ThermoNuke]

i'm going to point out the obvious...

nothing makes sense in war. war itself can be construed as being unjustified if one wants to find enough reasons to think war is a bad thing.

it was a part of war, if wasnt justified nor unjustified, it just was. period.

we didnt live during that period. yes even back then the world was a different place from the one we live in now. so our standards do not apply. its nice to see some of us saying "war bad! bombs bad!" as we are learning from history.

as long as some people want to think using two atmoic weapons was not needed they will never be convinced and on the flip side of the coin those who think they were needed will never be convinced they werent needed.

and playing the what if game is pretty stupid. i dont like hypotheticals, i prefer sticking to reality and what really happens, not what could have happened or should have happened.

they started a war, we fought back and used atomic weapons. they gave up soon after.



on a personal note i think war is an evil but necessary thing. it creates change in the world. some of you will see this in a negative way and others will see this in a positive way but the truth is both psitive and negative things result from war, not just negative. we're all going to die and its not like if all wars stop we're suddenly going to be immortal. people die from being murdered but noone has found a way to stop that but noone says much about that, its far easier to point the finger at a president than it is to point the finger at society and every influence that causes a person to kill others.


we live in a time when no other country has attacked us and declared war on us. they did and they did what it took to end the war ASAP, not kill a few people and wait it out, they wanted a quick ending to the war and got it.

and i dont like to do this kind of reasoning but its the truth. they did start it and we ended it. period. when war is declared all rules go out the window, regardless of the UN and its rules there really is only one rule, WIN! war is not like playing chess. people die, buildings are destroyed and its either you do what it takes to survive and defeat your enemy and go all out or capitulate because your enemy sure wont show you any mercy.

there are no half measures in war.

i dont like war myself but i understand what needs to be done during war and even if i disagree with the war itself i understand that things arent going to make sense. war brings out the best and worst in us. its best to learn to live with it than to try and live in denial of it.

I fully agree.

We wernt alive then. And im sure every family of every american soldier who was fighting... Or dead. Felt the bombs were the way to go. Try to convince a mother who lost their son at the hands of the japs that it was uncalled for.

Originally posted by ThermoNuke
Try to convince a mother who lost their son at the hands of the japs that it was uncalled for.

Well, what if Saddam Hussein decided to nuke one of Americas citys. I'm pretty sure that an Iraqi civilian who has had his/her innocent friends and family killed by Coalition Forces, would also say that Nuking America is the way to go. But that wouldn't make it right, would it?

The war was won......Japan were never a real threat in the long term. Nuking them was cowardice......It was taking advantage of new technology, showing off, at the expense of innocents. Excuse me if I find it a little evil....

Its easy to consider a country a lesser threat when the gun isnt pointed at you.

The bombs against Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes that cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives. Imagine Iran nuking the US, installing an islamic republic in America .. after 50 years of Islamic doctrine, no doubt, the young american jihadis will qualify the nukes "the best thing that ever happened to America"

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi

The bombs against Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes that cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives.

hmmm i see. and who sneak attacked who???

or did you forget?

lol amazing how people dont want to admit japan brought it down upon themselves by choosing to attack the US.


simple concept, japan sneak attacks the US, the US strikes back with more force than japan had intended. sucks to be japan.

so who's the real coward? (reference to a post by someone else)

in other words dont let your mouth write checks your body cant cash.

dont let your shark mouth bite more than your minnow ass can handle.

cant take the heat...get out of the kitchen.


i can do this all day.

simply put, dont start a fight and nothing comes to you.

japan put its own people at risk when they decided to pick a fight with the US. learn it, deal with it and get over it. america is not the evil everyone thinks it is.