Military opinions and war experience

Its ok, Mecca and Medina are in Saudi Arabia, they are the 2 holiest sites in Islam, the third is the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.....

[edit on 30-5-2005 by edsinger]

Originally posted by edsinger
Its ok, Mecca and Medina are in Saudi Arabia,

DOH!

Man I knew that.... Must be the Memorial day Bud Light fogging my geography lessons

Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by edsinger
Its ok, Mecca and Medina are in Saudi Arabia,

DOH!

Man I knew that.... Must be the Memorial day Bud Light fogging my geography lessons

Well I too would be having a few but I have the kids today, wife is working.


Bud Light can do that, it gives me the runs, must be the beechwood, never could drink it........

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by Odium

They have done, over and over again until Iraq was invaded. They then stopped. They even said that by invading Iraq it would make things worse. Which it has done. Iraq and the whole of the Middle East will keep on getting worse and worse the more we invade them, the more we force our rule. It has to be a slow change which was happening up till Iraq.


Also just because we go to war with an Islamic Nation or Islamic Terrorists does not give us the right to destory any of their Holy Sites. That's the same as Britain nuking the Vatican because of the IRA.

(1) I seem to see elections and freedoms spreading in the Middle East after the Iraqi vote - You don't?

(2) I know it is wrong, but what is their target? The infidel and the West. When its all out war the next time it will be for keeps I am afraid. Now would damaging Mecca be wrong? yes, but what these beasts did to the Buddha's in Afghanistan was not right either. They only understand power and if the threat of what they are doing is made to them, they might take notice. Now they know we fight by humane rules whist they do not....keep that in mind. When something big happens, the political correctness will be out the window.

1) And? Hitler was elected into power, Saddam was, etc, etc, just because you have an election it won't stop the tyranny of the Government.

2) So we punish the majority for the actions of the minority? Which in turn would make the majority hate you.

Originally posted by Odium

(( the political correctness will be out the window. ))


2) So we punish the majority for the actions of the minority? Which in turn would make the majority hate you.

And you propose we send them a really and I mean really strongly worded memo? I mean being the fact that it is memorial day, they might take notice.

Seriously what would you do if you wore the pants?

I am for the war.

In 1990 - 1991, I saw what Hussein did to those people. And for that reason alone I supported him being overthrown in the recent years.

No matter what anyone behind their high-tech computer says, what the U.S. has done in the current Iraqi operations do NOT compare to what Saddam did during the 80's and 90's.

You simply cannot compare them. Anyone with the slightest slim of a brain can see that. I've seen torn limbs, bullet wounds, chemical weapons wounds; I've seen most of the things out there. Let me tell you something - what those people in Iraq will eventually get will be worth it. Mark my words.

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask.

-wD

I would just like to say I'm a vet that never had to face real combat. I guess I was lucky that I got out when I did or I would have been in the first Gulf War. I myself did not support our going to war this last time, because it was for the wrong reasons. All the men in my family have served proudly in the Armed forces of this country. My twin brother is still in the military to this day. If the war was a just cause I would have gladly signed up to defend my country, but this is not the case. I am for fighting terrorism, because it is wrong. And I also am for a strong military. I will never forget the days I served in the military it was some of the best times of my life and some of the loneliest also. This is to say even though I did not see combat I am not for this war in Iraq! I was a 12 Bravo Combat engineer. I would also like to Salute all of our brave Warriors on this Memorial Day. Hey Ed we were both in during the cold wars years. For me it was 81-83 regular Army and the Fulda gap was our sector. Our life expectancy was 3 minutes once we got there. I was in the 23rd Engineer Bat.

Thank you


[edit on 30-5-2005 by friday2112]

[edit on 30-5-2005 by friday2112]

Good to hear some of our other combat vets and service personell chimming in

I'd like to say that what at first seemed to be a lopsided observance of combat vets to noncombat vets agianst this war, has actually turned out to be a little less uneven as I previously thought. I will be the first to say when Im wrong and it seems I am standing corrected.Not saying that it is more one way or the other now. It really seems about even.

Lets not waste a good thread though. It seems we have found a place to discuss something that really touches all of us in a different way. Not only that, but we are proceeding in an exceedingly mature manner. Lets keep this up and see what else we can learn about one another on a thread where we are not biting each others heads off

Originally posted by Kidfinger we are not biting each others heads off

Can I save that for another thread young Grasshopper?

Why is it that there are some people around here who seem to believe that because there are members that are in favor of this war that we must not want the safety of those men and women who are serving right now in the front lines?...

Would i prefer if no soldier of ours died in this or any war? Of course i do. i would prefer if everyone of them was at home safe, but that's not what the military is for.

Wars are hell, all wars, and people do die in wars. Those are the facts.

I was in the Navy and served in Aircrew/AW. Was i ever in a front line with a rifle? no, I was an aircrewman in Seaconron VS 24 "The Scouts", an S-3 Viking squadron. We were last stationed in NAS Jax Florida where i served last til August 1998. Aircrewmen are inside either an S-3 Viking or a P-3 Orion, hunting subs, so we don't really use m-16s or other small arms, except 9 mm berettas, althou I did get training in some other small arms.

What i don't get is that some people seem to want to claim that they have more right to cast their vote about this war than others because they percieve to have done more for the US than other service men and service women? Sorry but that's bs.

I guess aircraft pilots also shouldn't have a vote on the matter because many of them have never picked up a gun to shoot at someone else up close? How about all the other servicemen and servicewomen who are in support duties and have not served in the front lines?

I have friends that are right now in Iraq and althou most of them want to come home, quite a lot of them know why we are there and they support it.

Of course there are sailors, marines, airmen and other soldiers that want to come home and don't want to be in any war, whether or not they agree with it.

Perhaps this man has more vote than anyone in here because he died for what he believed in.

Shortly after the 3rd Battalion made its way to Iraq early last year, Corporal Dunham extended his four-year enlistment so he could stay with his men through their entire combat tour. "I want to make sure everyone makes it home alive," he told a buddy. It was a decision he didn't share with Dan and Deb, to whom he wrote: "Don't worry too much, Mom. I'll be home as soon as the time's right. Love you all."

The top Marines in Kilo Company pegged Dunham as a born leader and put him in charge of a squad of frontline grunts, the guys who head toward the gunfire instead of away from it. So on April 14, 2004, during a patrol through Karabilah, Dunham's men clambered into their Humvees when they heard that insurgents had ambushed a Marine convoy.

Soon Dunham and six other men were zigzagging through a sun-baked stretch of walled compounds and rutted dire streets, until they came upon a line of vehicles stopped on a dusty lane.

Dunham and PFC Kelly Miller, a 21-year-old from Eureka, Calif, charged up the lane to search a white Toyota Land Cruiser for weapons. The driver, a slender Iraqi man in a black crack suit and loafers, leaped from the SUV, grabbed Dunham by the neck and cocked his arm to punch the corporal. Dunham caught the man's fist and drove a knee into his stomach. The Iraqi doubled over, and both men fell to the ground.

PFC Miller pulled out his telescoping police baton, snapping it down to extend it to its full length. The Iraqi was lying face-up, so Miller planted his knee in the man's ribs and twice slammed the butt of the baton into his forehead Lance Cpl. Bill Hampton, a big 22-year-old rifleman from Woodinville, Wash., raced toward the melee, his adrenaline surging. He aimed his rifle but worried that he might hit Miller. So Hampton decided to spear the man's head with his rifle barrel. He pulled his M-16 back to get some force behind it.

At that instant, Dunham apparently saw the Iraqi drop an armed hand grenade. "No, no, no!" Dunham yelled. "Watch his hand!" Hampton caught a fleeting glimpse of Dunham's helmet on the ground.

Dunham was on his stomach, his arms wrapped around the sides of the helmet. Jason had evidenc1y covered the grenade with his helmet to protect his Marines from the blast.

The explosion shredded the helmet and peppered Miller and Hampton with shrapnel, wounding-but not killing-them. Dunham lay in a halo of his own blood, a metal fragment the size of a pencil eraser buried deep in his brain.

Excerpted from.
www.stevequayle.com...

He died because he wanted to stay with those soldiers he spent his first tour with and wanted to make sure they all returned safely.

There are many stories like this one. Some men and women support the war, others don't. This has been the same for centuries and will never change.

if you want to see the reason why i support this war, even though i have given more than enough reason and evidence before, here is another link with info about it.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you don't agree with it, that's fine. But there is more than enough evidence to support this war, and a couple of men writing some books talking about their own views and changing some facts so it can fit their agenda, whatever it is, is not going to change my mind. I change my mind on facts, and all the facts i have seen point to what i have stated so many times before.

Would i join the military again? i am 33 years old right now, and if i could i would. But all those times i spent jumping off planes, helos, etc did take a toll on my left knee.

I have no glorious thoughts about dying or killing, neither one is pretty, but i would fight for this country again if i could.

i would prefer if people lived in peace and harmony but in reality that is just a fantasy. It is not the real world.

---edited for errors---


[edit on 31-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Man I knew that.... Must be the Memorial day Bud Light fogging my geography lessons

I wouldn't know anything about that!

Too much beer the night before!

Are there any other Gulf War vets at ATS?

9 pages and no flaming...

Way to go Kidfinger. This has been a great thread.

Way to go Kidfinger. This has been a great thread.

WAHOO! there should be an award for the most civil thread...
I wonder what thread would win???

Hmmm,, this one!

[edit on 31/5/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by SportyMB
WAHOO! there should be an award for the most civil thread...
I wonder what thread would win???

I second that, Sporty. I've never seen a thread at ATS go this far without ANY flamethrowing. Big kudos to EVERYONE who has taken part in it. Way to go!

Sorry I havent replied to anyone in a day in a half. Ive been busy with 6th quarter finals and working. I promise I will try and get some more thoughts posted as soon as I have more than 10 minutes to scratch my butt.

I want to say thanks to ECK and Sperty for their kind remarks about the thread and also, as ECK said, thank you every one who participated so far for not dragging this down in the mud

I've been here for quite some time now, and I have never seen a thread go this long without one single knock down drag out. Every single one of you who has contributed deserves a WATS vote for your collegiality. This is how it should be done! You guys lead the way! To borrow an Army term.

I'm still wondering how many more Gulf War vets are members? Any more Cold Warriors?

Well I have to admit it has been very tame.

the reason I think it is?


Its one veteran's respect for another. Even though we all don't agree on everything, we all had the uniform on at one time, so lets just say I think it is respect for that.


I know you guys just don't think I am a nice guy



:

Originally posted by edsinger
I know you guys just don't think I am a nice guy

Too funny!

0 beer thirty! time to move out..

So there have been some developments in the last few days. I was wondering what some of you think about the war on Alqueda winding down? Also, what do you think about Cheny and his statment that the war would be over in 2009?

Here is my take on it. As far as AlQueda, I think the only way it could be winding down is if they know something we don't. Possibly found evidence of OBL's death or capture? Possibly something all together different.If they have info on OBL, it should be released, or there should be a satisfactory reason given for slowing the hunt down even more than it already is.

As far as the war being over in 2009.....Didnt Cheny see Bush land on that aircraft carrier? Wasnt the 'Mission Accomplished" then? I know that end of war delarations have not been made yet, but neither were thy ever made for the first gulf war.Why are we going to be there for 4 more years if our mission is accomplished? I am really thinking this move is strictly based on money.

Originally posted by Kidfinger

As far as the war being over in 2009.....Didnt Cheny see Bush land on that aircraft carrier? Wasnt the 'Mission Accomplished" then? I know that end of war delarations have not been made yet, but neither were thy ever made for the first gulf war.Why are we going to be there for 4 more years if our mission is accomplished? I am really thinking this move is strictly based on money.

Well my take on that day is a bit different than that tag line and the press interpretations thereof.

Mission Accomplished was Baghdad liberated and Saddam overthrown. If you remember on the deck of that carrier he also said there is much work to be done.

The initial mission was to take Iraq - we did that. Major combat operations WERE over and from then on it was a insurgency which got worse as time went on.

There was no more drives to Baghdad and such but the press blew it out of proportion to mean 'war over' and we all knew better than that, even Bush.

That is my opinion only.