WAR: Koran Flushing & Abuse - Newsweek Retracts, Washington Post Digs Deeper

Masked Avatar's point I believe is that it was not a literal flushing down a toilet. And it is not surprising at all that this evidence arose as the Newsweek article simply served as a catalyst for discovering the truthfulness of their assertions.

As well Muadibb, the evidence not only behind your assertion that guards never took part in such desecration and that real people died is severely lacking. I suggest you take a look at the evidence in your own world. Or do you not have one?

Already covered:

www.atsnn.com...

Funny, 41 replies and none thought this story worth of an upgrade????

Yep, ATSNN voting is flawed.

The story about this that did get voted up has 6 replies

[edit on 27/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
...............
As well Muadibb, the evidence not only behind your assertion that guards never took part in such desecration and that real people died is severely lacking. I suggest you take a look at the evidence in your own world. Or do you not have one?

Did you not read what i said? i am pretty sure what you are claiming I said, is not what I said....

You can read again my responses and see exactly what I was saying.



[edit on 27-5-2005 by Muaddib]

U.S investigators have admitted 5 cases of Koran desecration occured. Hows that factor into your argument Muaddib? Newsweek still a demon?

Originally posted by subz
U.S investigators have admitted 5 cases of Koran desecration occured. Hows that factor into your argument Muaddib? Newsweek still a demon?

A whole 5 cases?..... OMG that's is truly a government conspiracy...... More so when "only one of those cases is supposed to have been a report of a Koran being flushed"...

And this according to you is enough for more violence and death?... humm....

Be careful Masked, soon the government is going after your mask, then what will you do?.....




[edit on 28-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
A whole 5 cases?..... OMG that's is truly a government conspiracy...... More so when "only one of those cases is supposed to have been a report of a Koran being flushed"...

And this according to you is enough for more violence and death?... humm....

Be careful Masked, soon the government is going after your mask, then what will you do?.....

Are you that proud that you cant even admit when you've been proven wrong?

Also when did I advocate violence and death over the desecration? Again with your blatant lies.

[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz

Are you that proud that you cant even admit when you've been proven wrong?

Also when did I advocate violence and death over the desecration? Again with your blatant lies.

[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]

How exactly does this prove that there was a government conspiracy behind this?....

If there was a directive from the higher ups, as Masked has claimed, there should have been more than 5 cases, 4 of which have to deal with guards throwing Korans to the floor as they searched for weapons, or puting the Korans someplace that is not considered acceptable by Muslims, and one allegation of a Koran being flushed...

That first, second, whenever the US government comes up with an explanation i have seen many members around here claim that the new explanation and evidence came out a bit too fast, and it was too convinient... Yet, when the media does exactly the same, obviously when they have their image to protect, you don't question it and accept it as fact?....

There are hundreds of enemy combatants in prison at this moment, yet there is one claim that a guard flushed a Koran, and there are 4 more cases where the Koran was placed somewhere that is not considered acceptable by Muslims, or were thrown to the floor as the guards were searching the cells, and then suddenly this becomes a "government conspiracy"?....


[edit on 28-5-2005 by Muaddib]

These are 5 confirmed cases Muaddib. There have been scores of allegations but obviously they are hard to corroborate so your assumption that these 5 confirmed cases are all that occured is a bit too presumptuous.

Originally posted by Muaddib
And this according to you is enough for more violence and death?... humm....

Also you didnt address my rebuttal of your claims that I advocated violence and death due to these desecrations. Im still waiting.

[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
These are 5 confirmed cases Muaddib. There have been scores of allegations but obviously they are hard to corroborate so your assumption that these 5 confirmed cases are all that occured is a bit too presumptuous.

5 confirmed cases?...wow, yep, it sure proves it is a government conspiracy now huh? i guess it couldn't have been that some of these individuals acted on their own...

Who would have thought of that, people acting of their own free will?.... That's impossible....

And where is the report of "the scores of allegations"? The article mentions "nearly a dozen" allegations, not scores...

Originally posted by subz
Also you didnt address my rebuttal of your claims that I advocated violence and death due to these desecrations. Im still waiting.
[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]

I thought I already made it clear in my previous responses.

The first time this story came up and it was but a rumor, there was violence and death as Muslims around the world were protesting.

How long did it take for the Washington post to investigate and respond?

Weren't you also one of those people that kept asking for more time for more inspections, after 11 years which we gave to Saddam to get rid of everything having to do with his wmd programs?

There is no outcry from you either, or anyone else in these forums, for the WP not waiting to actually investigate this some more, even after knowing that the first time this brought violence and death because of a rumor.

WP was only thinking on trying to clear it's image, or the image of it's subsidiary, it was not thinking on finding the truth, or on the violence and death that their new article would attract once again, and some people around here, including you, are going right along with them because you are trying to prove a point which is baseless.



[edit on 28-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Did you not read what i said? i am pretty sure what you are claiming I said, is not what I said....

Can you explain it to me very clearly then?

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Can you explain it to me very clearly then?

Read my response before this one.

It very clearly states what i think.


[edit on 28-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Well at first you denied any such flushings occur, then you said 1 occurred, now you admit 5 occurred, and now you are trying to brush off the incident as nothing important. Then, you are saying all these scores of people died and that we shouldn't report such findings. But, you have no evidence to back up all these people dying.

It's OK to be wrong sometimes. I know I have been.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Well at first you denied any such flushings occur, then you said 1 occurred, now you admit 5 occurred, and now you are trying to brush off the incident as nothing important. Then, you are saying all these scores of people died and that we shouldn't report such findings. But, you have no evidence to back up all these people dying.

It's OK to be wrong sometimes. I know I have been.

What in the world are you talking about?.....

Did you read my responses?.... I think you did not.

I never said 5 flushings occurred, and the one that was mentioned in the article, I said "it is an allegation."

Do you understand what "allegation" means?

We do not know exactly what happened, it is possible that one guard did throw a Koran in a toilet out of spite, it is also possible that the book was pushed accidentally into the toilet as the guard searched the room. it cannot happen?....

I know of coworkers who have "accidentally thrown their own cellphones inside a toilet"....

Guards search cells once in a while, how is it not possible that the guard put the book close to the toilet and as he was searching it was thrown inside?....

If it was an order by higher ups, as Masked claims, there would have been more than one "allegation of a Koran being flushed."

The other four "allegations" seem to have been of misproper handling of the Koran....not flushings.

5 confirmed cases?...wow, yep, it sure proves it is a government conspiracy now huh? i guess it couldn't have been that some of these individuals acted on their own...

Perhaps your own sarcasm is confusing you. I don't know if it was engineered by "higher-ups" and I don't think it is a matte of topic, as we will never know the truth of the situation unless we are allowed to know.

So while we can debate whether it happened, etc. etc., the fact is it was reported and reported it should be.

You are the one confused here Jamuh. If you would have kept up with the conversation, then you would have seen what I meant.

Perhaps you should take some more time reading what other people write before making any "allegations."

[edit on 28-5-2005 by Muaddib]

A desecration is a desecration. Dont get so hung up on whether or not it was flushed, that is irrelevant. Youre only ceasing on it because Newsweek first claimed it and will probably be vindicated by further investigations. Not that you will admit it when you read it clear as day from your precious Bush administration.

There was a directive issued to the prison guards at Guantanamo regarding the proper handling of Korans. Why would they need to issue this is if no widespread mishandling of Korans had occured, accidental or not? If it was only 5 cases then just tell those 5 involved right?

You were swearing blind that no desecration of Korans had occured in Guantanamo Bay. Then you changed tack to say it could of been accidental. Now with clear evidence from government investigators and the FBI claiming that the desecration of Korans occured you fob it off as merely 5 cases, who cares?

Youre just digging yourself further and further into an embarrasing hole. Just cut your losses and admit that the desecration went on, it was the guards fault, the government has taken measures to make sure it stops, the muslims have every right to be pissed off at whats gone on, and have done with it.

[edit on 28/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
.......
You were swearing blind that no desecration of Korans had occured in Guantanamo Bay. Then you changed tack to say it could of been accidental. Now with clear evidence from government investigators and the FBI claiming that the desecration of Korans occured you fob it off as merely 5 cases, who cares?
......

Again with your lies and exagerations subz? when are you going to learn?

Let's see what I said in my second response in this thread..

Originally submitted by Muaddib
Yep, and meanwhile some people don't care if others die because of this unfounded rumor...again...

I am almost certain there might be some truth in this. As in guards searching cells and dropping korans and such.

Excerpted from the first page in this thread.

How much did i retract and changed my argument since one of my earliest responses in this thread?.... i did not retract, or changed at all my argument....like you claim subz...

Who keeps digging himself deeper and deeper with lies and exagerations is you subz. Good job.


[edit on 28-5-2005 by Muaddib]

BTW subz, one more thing....stop changing the truth so that it can fit your agenda.... I never said "who cares if there are only 5 allegations"....

I said if this was ordered by higher ups, or government officials, like Masked has claimed time and again, there would have been more than 5 proven allegations...four of misproper handling of the Koran, and one of a guard who might or might not have thrown a Koran in a toilet.

That was the point of me saying that 5 proven allegations, 4 of misproper handling of the Koran one of a Koran in a toilet, does not make it a government conspiracy....


One more thing subz...Muslims have a right to get violent and cause deaths because of these allegations?....

Maybe the whole Christian/Catholic world should do the same against Muslims and other religions for those cases were bibles have been burned....

How about all Americans become violent and request every nation hand over those people who have burnt american flags?...



[edit on 28-5-2005 by Muaddib]