Petition: The Banning of ALL GM FOODS

Genetically modified food? What's wrong with MRE's, or if your into all that "retro" nonsense a good old fashioned C-ration? The only thing I want genetically altered is soldiers, the kind that are long on "can do," and short on "mama's boy." Brew me up some "Rambo's," Monsanto.

Carry on.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
And again, the man who first started the GM foods won a nobel prize after saving a billion people. And that was a few years ago. Who knows how many more billions he has saved.

Here's the problem. The Green Revolution was funded by charitable groups. GMO's are mainly funded by private companies. Thier primary goal is to provide the maximum possible return for thier shareholders, rathern than to solve the world's agricultural and poverty problems.

Originally posted by Linux

Originally posted by James the Lesser
And again, the man who first started the GM foods won a nobel prize after saving a billion people. And that was a few years ago. Who knows how many more billions he has saved.

Here's the problem. The Green Revolution was funded by charitable groups. GMO's are mainly funded by private companies. Thier primary goal is to provide the maximum possible return for thier shareholders, rathern than to solve the world's agricultural and poverty problems.

Yup, absolutely correct Linux! This technology needs Open Source methodology, and it's starting to happen right now. For the cost of a really nice computer you too could be a Genetic Engineer.

wired-vig.wired.com...

[edit on 25-5-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
Yup, absolutely correct Linux! This technology needs Open Source methodology, and it's starting to happen right now. For the cost of a really nice computer you too could be a Genetic Engineer.

Heh it sure does. Thanks for that link by the way.

To be perfectly honest i'm even a bit skeptical about the Green Revolution. Had those poorer countries collapsed what would have happened to our debt crisis? How would they repay thier debts to us. Also around this time period Communism was rampant. I believe it was China that had famine problems, leading to major revolutions there. Also who supported the initial funding.. The Rockefeller Foundation of course!

However credit is due because they did prevent a Malthusian collapse.

James im sorry but its not Greenpeace who you should worry about...

Trans-national corporations dominate the world almost, who is screwing who over is the real question. Farmers in poor countries are facing catastrophes and need government subsidies to stay afloat. Who do you think is undercutting and allowing depressed commodity prices? I guarntee its not Green Peace.

So, until you are starving to death, don't tell others what they can and can't eat.

I never said that, you're putting words into my mouth my friend. All I called for was LABELLING! I didn't sign this stupid BAN ALL GM FOODS petition.

Who is Monsanto?

OMG You're so anti-bush and anti-republican and you do not even know who Monsanto is? Think Agent Orange, Think Tobacco Smuggling, Think Suiing Farmers for Keeping seeds that apparently belong to Monsanto but the thing is some of these farms Monsanto is suing are #ing ORGANIC FARMS! Cross Polination is a big deal. If you would take the time to read the threads and links within those thread on ATS you would be singing a different tune... you think Haliburtan is bad, just do some digging on Monsanto...

You still havn't shown me any peer-review publications, and I do not have such a high opinion of the FDA, thought you should know that. They approved Prozac for use in Children remember? WITHOUT DUE DILLIGENCE!(eg Without doing specific Childhood studies)

Please do your research before posting, I have been following this for some 5 years now your gonna have to do better then that.

[edit on 25-5-2005 by sardion2000]

FDA? No comment on USDA, FFA, AHA, and the EPA? Nothing on the BILLION people? So, you don't like it, kill a billion people. You see, if it was bad, if it had ANY side effects, a BILLION people is a huge freaking group. Most studies are done on a couple dozen people, but after DECADES of research/study, after MILLIONS of dollars spent on research, they approved GE crops, and saved A BILLION PEOPLE!

All you people(not you Sar in particular) screaming it is bad because you said so, that it will make you mutate and have extra limbs or whatever, or that we don't know what side effects it has, ARE WRONG! There are no side effects, there are no mutations, a BILLION people are proof. It's not like they said "Hey, lets mutate people." and started selling nuclear waste as food, no, they had to do research, studies, and a bunch of Government Programs making sure it didn't affect people, and so far been right. A Billion times right.

Sorry, let me make this clear, this isn't like "Well, we did s study on 3 people, and none of them showed any signs, sure they were all healthy white males, so who knows about blacks, hispanics, women, asians, not as healthy people, but who cares, we did it on 3 people and no side effects."

It is "After years of research and study, after a BILLION people, no side effects, no mutations, no deaths, NOTHING!"

You can't say "It might hurt you" when a BILLION people have been eating it for DECADES and have NO SIDE EFFECTS! How hard is it to understand! Ok so this Mon group are assholes, what big business isn't? They are nothing to Exxon who drilled a lake for oil. There wasn't none, there was a salt mine, the people were WORKING the salt mine, told them there was a salt mine, but Exxon didn't care. After they were done the Gulf of Mexico was lower by inches, and the town died. Why? The salt mine and lake were the main means of making money, everything revolved around those, but Exxon destroyed both. See? Big Business are all assholes, but SAVING A !BILLION PEOPLE! ISN'T!

If we were to only grow food organically , we wouldn't have enough for 2 billion people! So, do you know 2 billion people willing to die so you can have only organic grown food? No?

Also, most GE Foods are labeled, hell, at the Schweitzers(local fruit/vegetable/plant/flower store/stand) all the foods are labeled GE or not. Another local place called Fleitz Farms also do the same thing. They have an organic, or grown on their farm, and then they have non-org, or GE they bought cause guess what? People like food that lasts longer, is bigger/more filling, and doesn't go bad if you look at it wrong like some.(Had a batch of apples go bad in less then a day, good organic food....)

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Started by Norman Borlog, the Nobel Prize winner for saving a Billion lives, GM, or GE crops are safe! Or else you would have a billion dead people, not a billion saved people. I think if a billion people ate it, you would have noticed side effects, but there aren't.

Did Borlaug actually use Genetic modification or did he just cross-polinate plants? It's difficult to find any articles that say he produced GM crops.

Here's one article I've read:
agbioworld

They don't mention him doing anything like particle bombardment or anything of that nature.

I apologize. I knee-jerked and I'm ashamed I did so. I thought it was directed at me. Then I guess we are in agreement them. Later in the day I tend to skim more then read.

[edit on 25-5-2005 by sardion2000]

Sar, read this part? "All you people(not you Sar in particular)" Guess you didn't.

And what other issues? Hmmm, save a billion people, or don't because the Mon people are assholes. Hmmm, lets get the scales out, 1 billion people, or Mon assholes, whats better/worse, saving a billion people, or not because the people doing it are complete and total assholes, like all big businesses. How dare Mon be assholes just because they are saving millions a year due to research/gene stuff done by Norman, 1970 Nobel Prize winner, savoir of a billion+. Sure I hate assholes, but if they go out and save millions a year, I can kinda forgive them for being assholes. Like how I can forgive Clinton for getting a bj since he kinda created the greatest economy this country ever had. Or how i can forgive Jesus even though his followers are assholes.

And to the guy who made this topic with the petition, Do you know 2 billion people willing to starve to death? If not, go away.

Who has saved more human lives than anyone else in history? Who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970? Who still teaches at Texas A&M at the age of 86? The answer is Norman Borlaug. reason.com...

In 1970 he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his "Green Revolution" which helped Pakistan, India and a number of other countries improve their food production. Since then he has continued working tirelessly in saving millions from starvation and suffering. He has been honored with about forty honorary doctorate degrees and numerous awards by governments, academic institutions and citizens' groups around the world. members.aol.com...
www.ers.usda.gov... Full Report
www.twnside.org.sg... Summarized Report
Good sources if you would like to read things on your own and not have me hold your hand and lead you around the room.
Institute of Food Technologists expert panel. 2000. IFT expert report on biotechnology and foods. Food Technology 54 (8), 124-136.
J. W. Looney, P.G. Crandall and A. K. Poole. 2001. The matrix of food safety regulations. Food Technology 55 (4), 60-76.
T. O. McGarity and P. I. Hansen. 2001. Breeding Distrust: An assessment and recommendations for improving the regulation of plant derived genetically modified foods. A report prepared for the Food Policy Institute of the Consumer Federation of America. January.
A. Pollack. 2001.The green revolution yields to the bottom line. The New York Times, Tuesday May 15, D1.
D. Barboza. Gene-altered corn changes dynamics of grain industry. The New York Times. December 11, A1, 20.
Numerous reports in Food Chemical News of April and May 2001.

"Would you trust an Ex-Tobacco and Current Chemical Company to put food on your table?"

Yes, if they knew what the hell they were doing. I mean, BMW use to make airplane engines for !HITLER! So shoiuld I not trust a BMW car because they once made plane engines for !HITLER!

And the kidney thing was mice, or rats, something like that. Not humans, not 1 billion+ humans eating it for decades, but mice. Guess what? If you feed chocolate to a pig it dies, I guess chocolate kills humans. If you feed sugar to most frogs they die, I guess sugar is the new cyanide. If you give animal feces to certain beetles they thrive, should we humans eat our own feces? Animal testing is great! Organ transplants, insulin, vaccines, many things have come from it. But they also jab lipstick in the eyes of rabbits because they have nothing better to do. So, 1 billion+ humans or a few mice.....

[edit on 25-5-2005 by James the Lesser]

Originally posted by AceOfBaseDid Borlaug actually use Genetic modification or did he just cross-polinate plants? It's difficult to find any articles that say he produced GM crops.

that is genetic modification, you make it seem more complex than it is.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by AceOfBaseDid Borlaug actually use Genetic modification or did he just cross-polinate plants? It's difficult to find any articles that say he produced GM crops.

that is genetic modification, you make it seem more complex than it is.

Cross-Pollination is not Genetic Modification.
It is hybridization. Taking pollen from one type of rice and pollinating another type of rice with that pollen is no different to what they've already been doing for centuries.

What they're doing with GM producs, is taking cells from a totally unrelated plant or organism and introducing it into a plant.

Here's a couple of examples:

MON802

The transgenic maize line MON802 was genetically engineered to resist ECB by producing its own insecticide. This line was developed by introducing the cry1Ab gene, isolated from the common soil bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt), into the maize line by particle acceleration (biolistic) transformation. MON802 was further engineered to express resistance to glyphosate, the active ingredient in the herbicide Roundup®, allowing for its use as a weed control option. In order to obtain field tolerance to glyphosate herbicide, two novel genes, CP4 EPSPS and goxv247, were introduced maize by particle acceleration (biolistic) transformation.

The cry1Ab gene produces the insect control protein Cry1Ab, a delta-endotoxin. The Cry1Ab protein produced by the Bt maize is identical to that found in nature and in commercial Bt spray formulations. Cry proteins, of which Cry1Ab is only one, act by selectively binding to specific sites localized on the lining of the midgut of susceptible insect species. Following binding, pores are formed that disrupt midgut ion flow, causing gut paralysis and eventual death due to bacterial sepsis. Cry1Ab is lethal only when eaten by the larvae of lepidopteran insects (moths and butterflies), and its specificity of action is directly attributable to the presence of specific binding sites in the target insects. There are no binding sites for the delta-endotoxins of B. thuringiensis on the surface of mammalian intestinal cells, therefore, livestock animals and humans are not susceptible to these proteins.

MON832

The MON832 line of maize was developed to allow the use of glyphosate, the active ingredient in the herbicide Roundup®, as a weed control option. In order to obtain field tolerance to glyphosate herbicide, two novel genes, EPSPS and goxv247, were introduced maize by particle acceleration (biolistic) transformation.

The EPSPS gene codes for the enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS) that is present in all plants, bacteria and fungi. The EPSPS gene put into MON832 was isolated from strain CP4 of the common soil bacterium Agrobacterium tumefaciens and is a glyphosate tolerant form of EPSPS. The EPSPS enzyme is part of an important biochemical pathway in plants called the shikimate pathway that is involved in the production of aromatic amino acids and other aromatic compounds. When conventional maize plants are treated with glyphosate, they cannot produce the aromatic amino acids needed to grow and survive. EPSPS is not present in mammals, birds or aquatic life forms, which do not synthesize their own aromatic amino acids. For this reason, glyphosate has little toxicity to these organisms. The EPSPS enzyme is naturally present in foods derived from plant and microbial sources.

MON832 contains a second gene that codes for a modified version of glyphosate oxidase (GOX) enzyme that is ubiquitous in nature. The goxv247 gene inserted into MON832 was isolated from strain LBAA of the bacterium Ochrobactrum anthropi. The GOX enzyme accelerates the normal breakdown of the herbicide glyphosate into two non-toxic compounds, aminomethylphosphonic acid (AMPA) and glyoxylate. AMPA is the principal breakdown product of glyphosate and is degraded by several microorganisms, while glyoxylate is commonly found in plant cells and is broken down by the glyoxylic pathway for lipid metabolism.

[edit on 25-5-2005 by AceOfBase]

[edit on 25-5-2005 by sardion2000]

First and foremost my concern is with the aftermath of the revolutions, not the revolution's themselves. It's great that we can save all these lives no one is denying that. However if it turns out that our argriculture sectors are jeopardized, what then?

The Green Revolution left behind a few specialized species. That was a loss of genetic diversity, we now grow the best suited species mainly. That's fine, as long as disease doesn't strike. Let's assume that happends, now we're in big trouble. The plantations would collapse and lots of people would therefore die.

Furthermore High Yield Varities (HYV) of plants are not environmentally sustainable. HYVs cause a decline in fertility of the soil, that additional chemical fertilizers cannot help restore.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Who has saved more human lives than anyone else in history? Who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970? Who still teaches at Texas A&M at the age of 86? The answer is Norman Borlaug. reason.com...

In 1970 he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his "Green Revolution" which helped Pakistan, India and a number of other countries improve their food production. Since then he has continued working tirelessly in saving millions from starvation and suffering. He has been honored with about forty honorary doctorate degrees and numerous awards by governments, academic institutions and citizens' groups around the world. members.aol.com...
www.ers.usda.gov... Full Report
www.twnside.org.sg...

I still don't see anything in those links that said he used Genetic Modification to create those crops that saved billion of lives. I'm going to assume he used standard hybridization until I see something that says different.
If he didn't use GM, it makes your billions of lives saved by GM arguments moot.

All I have is Norman saying he used GM in an interview. And Norman saying he did, and Norman saying he did. I know, need links, but just like there are no transcripts of Justice Sunday, there are none of his interviews. He started GM, he did GM, he saved a billion with GM. It's why he won a Nobel Prize, for saving a Billion lives with GM crops.

FOUND SOMETHING! Starting on page 3 of google Norman Borlaug GE Crops, this little quote.
"Norman Borlaug (normanborlaug.org...), in his lifetime, has been the main scientific developer of genetically engineered (GE) crops. His accomplishments are simple...he has, because of his scientific advancements in agricultural production, saved an estimated 1 billion people world wide in a plethora of countries including Africa, Mexico, India, and China; and thus he won the Nobel Prize. Mr. Borlaug is the king of humanitarians."
www.guild-hall.net...

Can't believe it, after all the greenpecae/kill a billion+ people sites, found something other then "Let 1 billion+ starve to death, I don't care, I can eat whenever I want."

Hey, here's more people being saved by GE foods....
www.agbioworld.org...

I know, we should just let them starve to death, GE foods evil, but the people who don't want to die of starvation decided they would like to live. In other words, if the people who are starving say yes, and the people who are obese say no, the starving are right.

Oh, and to all the people running around screaming and ranting about pesticides IN the food, here is a link on that.
www.monsanto.co.uk...
For example, genes from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis produce a toxin that kills certain insects. It’s harmless to other creatures, including humans. This 'natural' insecticide was extolled by Rachel Carson in her 1962 book, Silent Spring. Now, a copy of the Bt gene can be inserted into plants, enabling them to produce Bt toxin. This has significantly reduced the amount of insecticide applied to cotton in the United States. In conventional agriculture, cotton requires huge and multiple applications of synthetic chemicals.

You see, unlike what greenpeace tells you, they aren't putting cyanide in the plants, or round up, or what ever. More on natural insecticide GE Foods.
capmag.com...
Other researchers created a GE brand of potato that is resistant to leaf roll viruses and beetles. It was planted in Colorado and demonstrated no need for insecticides.

But wait, isn't everyone saying that GE crops require more insecticides? That GE crops just bath in insecticides, right? But this is the real world, not greenpeace far far far far far far far left world where nothing is eaten, everything just lives off air somehow. Even more from the same link!

In another development, GE soya beans were produced that were weed-resistant and herbicide-tolerant. An experimental trial ran in one thousand fields. The beans were successfully protected, and herbicide use dropped as much as 40% in some of the fields.
As if all these enemies weren't enough, farmers also have to fight innumerous parasites. One of them is the terrible corn borer, which destroys the corn from the inside out. To combat it GE corn was created. Usually six sprays of insecticide are needed to safeguard traditional corn; GE corn needs only one.


Oh, and if you were wondering since someone mentioned cancer or something.
www.abetterearth.org...
Those self-same activists spread rumors that the corn was poisonous and that it might cause cancer, or even AIDS – even though it was the same corn Americans have been eating safely for years.

Again I know, we should just let a billion people starve to death, how dare they want to eat, right? I mean we have people in America suing because they are fat, how dare these starving people say anything about food?

To the people who say "Farmers hate GE crops, they will kill anyone who evens says GE." Here is a link to farmers who have used GE crops, and LOVED THEM! I know, Monsanto are assholes, how dare they save a billion people from starving.....
www.monsanto.co.uk...
South Dakota farmers have generally positive experience with transgenic crops (Bt corn, herbicide tolerant (HT) corn, and HT soybeans). They noted that improved pest control was the most important determinant of transgenic crop usage. Improved yields was also a major factor in deciding whether to grow Bt corn, but not nearly as important for farmers in deciding to grow HT corn and HT soybeans.

Oh yeah, rats eat GE food and supposedly get kidney problems, well, as said, chocolate kills pigs, sugar kills frogs, and beetles eat dung, so whats good for one animal may not be good for another. Here are cows eating GE crops and not dieing or anything.
www.monsanto.co.uk...

Know what, just read everything from this site...
www.monsanto.co.uk...

Now, I know the people who want to kill a billion+ people will say Monsanto is evil, big business, but sorry, a billion people is more important then some assholes in suits.

[edit on 25-5-2005 by James the Lesser]

Originally posted by James the Lesser
FOUND SOMETHING! Starting on page 3 of google Norman Borlaug GE Crops, this little quote.
"Norman Borlaug (normanborlaug.org...), in his lifetime, has been the main scientific developer of genetically engineered (GE) crops. His accomplishments are simple...he has, because of his scientific advancements in agricultural production, saved an estimated 1 billion people world wide in a plethora of countries including Africa, Mexico, India, and China; and thus he won the Nobel Prize. Mr. Borlaug is the king of humanitarians."
www.guild-hall.net...

It looks like that person is posting a quote from the site they provided a link to but if you actually go to the link it does not say anything about him being a developer of GE crops.
normanborlaug.org...

[edit on 26-5-2005 by AceOfBase]

I love my seedless oranges and watermelons

It really just needs to be managed tighter. Though there are obvious mistakes in the genetic modification of our vegetables, fruits, and meats, there is a lot of good provided as well. Stricter management and testing programs need to be inforced.

One of my biggest problems with food tinkering is with the growth hormones added to our milk, beef, pork, and poultries.

AOB, getting annoying.... I went to the link, and saw where he made new crops that produced more, IE GE crops. It didn't specifically say he used a lazer and chemicals to make the crops produce more, it just says through his work he made crops that produced more, IE GE crops.

Also, to the rest, on "OMG! If you eat it you will get cancer and your head will explode!" Read the links. To the "OMG Farmers are out to kill Mon&Co!" read the links, farmers love GE crops. To the "GE crops need to be bathed in round up", read the links, they all need LESS! To the "Round up is IN the GE crops." read the links, it isn't round up.

And to Sar, yes Mon&Co are assholes, I mean, saving a billion lives here, saving a billion lives there, such assholes.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
AOB, getting annoying.... I went to the link, and saw where he made new crops that produced more, IE GE crops. It didn't specifically say he used a lazer and chemicals to make the crops produce more, it just says through his work he made crops that produced more, IE GE crops.

Hybridization is not the same as Genetic Modification any more than interracial babies are the same as interspecies babies.

This thread is about Genetically Modified crops which sometimes contain the DNA of bacterium or even animals and humans.

Read up on the new Rice developed in Japan that contains human genes:

telegraph
Standard GM crops are modified with genes from bacteria. They are resistant to only one herbicide which means farmers can spray their fields as often as they like to beat back weeds, but only with one type of chemical.

The aim of mixing rice with human genes is to produce a crop which is resistant to several herbicides, reducing the chances of weeds building up resistance.

Researchers at the National Institute of Agro-biological Sciences in Tsukuba, Japan, have found the new crop could be resistant to 13 different herbicides.

Are you at all opposed to them putting animal or human genes into food crops?

[edit on 26-5-2005 by AceOfBase]