Are You For Or Against A War With Iran/North Korea?

Originally posted by mrsdudara
For instance, my understanding is that NK and Iran have or are developing nukes for protection. All and all they just want to be left alone.

Yes they want nukes for protection, just like the US and UK will always have nukes for our own protection, but these people cannot be trusted with such a deadly weaopn.

If Iran aquires nuclear weapons it will cause massive tension in the Middle-East with Israel (also a nuclear power). It would also be alot easier for a terrorist organisation to obtain a nuclear weapon from the likes of Iran than any western country! It is well known that Iran does not like the US, so if they believed they could supply a terrorist organisation with a nuke and get away with it they probably would!

And as for Kim Jong-II, well hes just plain bonkers!!!
He has already left his nation malnurished for years and is a clear hater of the west...
He is also severly paranoid, and i believe that if he had the slightest feeling that the west was upto something he wouldnt hesitate to start blowing things up.
We've already established that an actual attack on US soil by Kim is highly unlikely, but like we mentioned before, there are several places well within reach of him that would disrupt the US greatly, such as countries that supply the US with oil etc.....



Mic

I'm opposed to both, on the basis the situations are far too unstable for war, especially so soon after the Iraq one.

What worries me is that some people seem to believe that a UK/US coallition could pop into Iran / N.K , dispose of their facilitys, then say "Toodle Doo, see you next time you do something naughty" without retribution. I find that highly dubious.

Originally posted by chebob
What worries me is that some people seem to believe that a UK/US coallition could pop into Iran / N.K , dispose of their facilitys, then say "Toodle Doo, see you next time you do something naughty" without retribution. I find that highly dubious.

The US/UK could send special forces in to destroy all there facilities with minimal retributions.....

Alternativley we could wind up Israel to the point that they will do it for us!
Remember, Israel REALLY REALLY dont want Iran to become a nuclear power!


Mic

What worries me is that some people seem to believe that a UK/US coallition could pop into Iran / N.K , dispose of their facilitys, then say "Toodle Doo, see you next time you do something naughty" without retribution.

Fantasies of omnipotence are pretty common among the hyper nationalist crowd.

It's not just in the US though, you can see it in the hyper nationalists from other countries too (no I won't name any names.)

It's like extreme sports fandom.
People identify to strongly with their "team", their "team" can never lose without some nefarious interference, their "team" can do no wrong, their "team" is the best team in the world, etc. etc...

It's like an external supplement for self-esteem or something.


[edit on 7/12/05 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex
Fantasies of omnipotence are pretty common among the hyper nationalist crowd.

It's not just in the US though, you can see it in the hyper nationalists from other countries too (no I won't name any names.)

It's like extreme sports fandom.
People identify to strongly with their "team", their "team" can never lose without some nefarious interference, their "team" can do no wrong, their "team" is the best team in the world, etc. etc...

It's like an external supplement for self-esteem or something.

Do you have a program similar to Babelfish so i can translate this please!

Mic

No, just learn to read.

Originally posted by MickeyDee
The US/UK could send special forces in to destroy all there facilities with minimal retributions.....

Alternativley we could wind up Israel to the point that they will do it for us!
Remember, Israel REALLY REALLY dont want Iran to become a nuclear power!


Mic

Or we could just develop a weapon to destroy those weapons from a stealth bomber....

Originally posted by MickeyDee


The US/UK could send special forces in to destroy all there facilities with minimal retributions.....

Point proven. This is bull#. Iran and N.K will NOT say "Oh, they came in and wiped out our weapons without us noticing. I guess we'd better not do anything back, they are too powerful". Thats pure fantasy

Originally posted by devilwasp
Or we could just develop a weapon to destroy those weapons from a stealth bomber....

A big bomb!

Mic

Originally posted by chebob

Originally posted by MickeyDee


The US/UK could send special forces in to destroy all there facilities with minimal retributions.....

Point proven. This is bull#. Iran and N.K will NOT say "Oh, they came in and wiped out our weapons without us noticing. I guess we'd better not do anything back, they are too powerful". Thats pure fantasy

If the West destroyed Iran and NK's nuclear facilities what exactly are they going to do about it?
They cant nuke us, and as long as we are catious as to who we let in the country we should be relativley safe!

Mic

Originally posted by MickeyDee

Originally posted by chebob

Originally posted by MickeyDee


The US/UK could send special forces in to destroy all there facilities with minimal retributions.....

Point proven. This is bull#. Iran and N.K will NOT say "Oh, they came in and wiped out our weapons without us noticing. I guess we'd better not do anything back, they are too powerful". Thats pure fantasy

If the West destroyed Iran and NK's nuclear facilities what exactly are they going to do about it?
They cant nuke us, and as long as we are catious as to who we let in the country we should be relativley safe!

Mic

So deluded, it's frightening.

We've already established that an actual attack on US soil by Kim is highly unlikely
Mic

I do not think it is all that unlikely. All he has to do is load it up on one of those missles that detonate in the air (like Iran has). Then put it on a boat, sail it close to our country and kaboom. We also have to remember that it is not just N.K., and Iran here. They have alies too who do not like us very much. China, and Russia will back them up no matter what. That is a fact. If they do decide that they want to go to war with us, I am pretty sure that there will be plenty more to join their side.

All I was trying to say before is that most of the Americans are blind to what is going on. The govt. is so busy covering things up that most people do not and will not trust them. It is hard to win a battle when most of the soldiers have no clue what we are fighting for.

Another point is that yes we have nukes, but if Bush decides to use them, we are going to see one hell of a civil war here. So, unfortunatly, I do not see how we could win a war right now.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
I do not think it is all that unlikely. All he has to do is load it up on one of those missles that detonate in the air (like Iran has). Then put it on a boat, sail it close to our country and kaboom.

And you really that the US would let them get a boat close enough to launch from?

At this point I think it would be a HUGE mistake to go to war with either Iran or North Korea, since... well, you know, we are currently having our arses handed to us in Iraq. And the situation in Afghanistan is getting worse, though you don't hear about it in the American news.

In reality we should've worried about Afghanistan and the Chechen rebels first and foremost. Helping Russia and its former republics with that prolem would've gained the US mega points in Russia/US diplomacy. And the whole time we should've been talking things out with North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and anyone else who might be temped to send trouble our way. But that course of action actually requires the existance of an intelligent national leadership, of which we are sorely lacking.

I believe that a new war with North Korea or Iran will turn into even more genocide that takes place nowadays in Iraq. The US showed it’s complete disability to control the situation in Iraq, it cannot protect the civilians from terrorist attacks, more to that it provokes those attacks by just being there.

Someone on this forum told before that we don’t see how good the situation in Iraq is now, that there have already been build loads of school and many hospitals restored and so on. But all of this cannot function properly because of continuous attacks.

The situation will not get any better if you’ll go into Iran or North Korea. If you do that even more Muslim people will turn against you. The total and complete USA interference into the affairs of different countries will lead sooner or later to mass rebel around the world.

I just simply do not understand why do we need now the UN when USA does anything it wan’t, ohhhh, sorry, I forgot that UN HQ situates in New York…. No wonder.
Americans, please, be wise and don’t you ever stuck your noses to any countries. They can solve their problems without you.

Nuclear bombing will result in war against USA, the world nations will understand the true danger.

Originally posted by Nordix
Americans, please, be wise and don’t you ever stuck your noses to any countries. They can solve their problems without you.

Nuclear bombing will result in war against USA, the world nations will understand the true danger.

we try dat already, we try to stay away from peoples affairs but they be beggin for it, not to mention criticizing us for not intervening as Clinton had to apoligize for the Rwanda massacre in 94 or maybe being late to save many lives in Bosnia or Kosovo and not doin anithing. tsk tsk. double standards. criticize for intervening and then criticizing for not intervening.

Lol are you people crazy??? lol, lets try to analyze why would those countries need to have your help, when YOU started the war against them first? Yugoslavia was a wonderful country, it had nothing to do with racial issues until USA started showing off. They wouldn't have even needed your help if only you didn't touch them. What is the UN for??? WHAT IS IT FOR?

Originally posted by deltaboy
we try dat already, we try to stay away from peoples affairs but they be beggin for it, not to mention criticizing us for not intervening as Clinton had to apoligize for the Rwanda massacre in 94 or maybe being late to save many lives in Bosnia or Kosovo and not doin anithing. tsk tsk. double standards. criticize for intervening and then criticizing for not intervening.

Well, in Rwanda there was a genocide going on, in Iraq not. In Rwanda there was no oil, in Iraq there was. So it's not like the situations nor motives were similar, so your argument that intervention should either be criticized in both cases or not criticized in both cases is invalid. Considering Kosovo: NATO killed more Serb civilians than the Serbs killed innocent Kosovars. I think criticism is justified when the killings by NATO are greater than the proclaimed "genocide" by the Serbs.

[edit on 21-7-2005 by Simon666]

I don't remember us going to war with Sudan though and they have a lot of oil?

www.eia.doe.gov...

Remember; it is not just about oil.

Originally posted by Simon666
Well, in Rwanda there was a genocide going on, in Iraq not. In Rwanda there was no oil, in Iraq there was. So it's not like the situations nor motives were similar, so your argument that intervention should either be criticized in both cases or not criticized in both cases is invalid. Considering Kosovo: NATO killed more Serb civilians than the Serbs killed innocent Kosovars. I think criticism is justified when the killings by NATO are greater than the proclaimed "genocide" by the Serbs.

[edit on 21-7-2005 by Simon666]

now u are being hypocrite wen u compare Rwanda to Iraq with oil and no oil and u make an excuse about Bosnia and Kosovo because we intervene on countries that have no oil so u make a statement about killing Serb civilians and dont mention anithing about no oil in those nations.