The end of universe

the universe expands and contracts right ? bang, expand, stop,contract

repeat


so the edge is always moving ???

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer

Originally posted by Stuey1221
If theres nothing to stop the universe... then whys it growing, if you catch my drift?

No, actually, I don't catch your drift. And that isn't to say there's nothing stopping it. There just might not be enough. (although it looks like there's just enough)

Now im totally confused.
Whats beyond the edge of space then? I can deal with the fact that it may be expanding then contracting, but if so, whats past the edge, or beyond space then?

I have your answer just call up the windows screen saver Bezier lines make the setting 10. And stare at it for a while and you will understand the motion of the entire universe.


including the slight fraction of time where the past events still exist in the tangible universe, but how going forward or back in time is not possible.

do this and you will see how space is folded and how its possible to move from one point to another faster then "line of sight".

as well as understanding how space can be infinite and yet finite. We (our solar system) is just a mere spec within one of those bezier lines. Moving within th random formation of the fabric of the universe as it turns and twists and rolls over, since we know light is bent by gravity then we can also assume that within the fabric of the universe what we precieve as a straight line is really just an optical illusion, provided of course we had the means to see out past the very edge of our galaxy which again would consist of nothing more then a simple spec within a line.

Thats why we cannot detect the folds in space, because they exist out at such an extreme dimension even as our very point in the universe changes we can not detect the movment just as we on this planet can not feel the rotation of the planet or feel the rotation of the planet on its axis or even feel the rotation of the planet around the sun. Sure we can determine and acess the effects and results of the rotation ie changing season, day time and night time, but we can not "feel" the actual momentum or rotational energy, even though we are rotating at something like 1,000 miles per hour ground speed. Mother gravity has shielded us from feeling the rotational effect and replaced it with the sense of being forced to the ground somehow exactly opposite of what we consider rotational inertial force. When you spin something matter should be sent to the outside edge, But somehow matter on the surface of the planet while spinning at 1,000mph is pushed BACK towards the center.

Those of you who think science knows everything have just been oblivious to the fact that science only theorizes what they know based on repeatable assumptions and not because they know the absolute truth as to WHY it works.

Basically the larger the scale an object in the universe or in this case the universe itself the less its inertial energy can be felt, even though there still remains a massive amount of inertial energy being expelled.

Why does the earth rotate exactly ? why do the planets rotate (on their axis not specifically in their orbits around the sun or other solar bodies).

And if you say because of the gravitional affects of the sun and move then what is the sun doing, does the sun rotate because the sun exists in the same space or does merely only the surface of the sun rotate like the weather on the earth a mass of boiling energy rotating over the surface of a cooler core.... who knows, how can we determine if the core of the sun rotates and if the sun is just a giant ball of compressed hyrdrogen with a few other elements thrown in there, why is there an apparent rotation....

Originally posted by Stuey1221
Whats beyond the edge of space then? I can deal with the fact that it may be expanding then contracting, but if so, whats past the edge, or beyond space then?

Nothing. Not even nothing, there's isn't anywhere for there to be nothing.

In space, you can have one of two things. You can have something (a slice pizza) or just have nothing, empty space (debatable, but whatever). However, outside of space, you can't have anything because there isn't anywhere for anything (or nothing) to exist. Space doesn't expand into anything, it doesn't expand into nothingness, it just expands.


I couldn't make sense of a lot of the first part of your post, robertfenix, but I have two things to say.

1. A scientific theory is not a theory like you use in everyday English. A scientific theory says what happens.
2. The sun rotates. That we see. It also revolves. That we also see. In truth, the Earth revolves around the center of mass, and so does the Sun. As it turns out, the Earth-Sun center of mass is within the Sun, so for nearly all intents and purposes the Earth orbits the Sun and the Sun just rotates.

In space, you can have one of two things. You can have something (a slice pizza) or just have nothing, empty space (debatable, but whatever). However, outside of space, you can't have anything because there isn't anywhere for anything (or nothing) to exist. Space doesn't expand into anything, it doesn't expand into nothingness, it just expands.

Exactly.
We are like bugs in a box.
Now just take away the big dud and insert God

I personally belive ther is no edge, I baelive that you can go infinetly closer to the edge before hitting the actual drop. It is simply mathmatical.

Godd thread!!!

there is also one theory that universe is not flat as we know it (I mean a flat x,y and z axis). but it is bent. like when you walk on the face of earth you will think that earth is flat, and you will think that you will be able to go forever, unless you come to the point where you have started and recognise it. universe is so big for this to happen but it is assumed that when you travel to a fixed direction you will end up at where you have begun.

I know it is hard to imagine it in both ways, youll ask well if its like earth and you arrive to your starting point etc. earth has an inside and an outside, so nothing really changes. I think these are not that certain, we cannot always grasp the reality of such anomalies. but a beautiful example of this is the moebius strip.

can you imagine an object which has only one side. ( assume that paper is a two sided object) its hard to imagine isnt it, yet it is only a work of cut and paste(refer to the link below). and there you are you have a one sided moebius strip. so the fact that we cannot really grasp the reality of one thing doesnt always mean it is so complicated etc.



>>Moebius Strip

The Universe I think does have an edge. Beyond that edge the laws of nature do not act. Therefore there are no constants and nothing exists not even a vacuum.

Originally posted by jake1997
Exactly.
We are like bugs in a box.
Now just take away the big dud and insert God

I said it before in this thread but it hasn't seemed to hit home yet.

If you're standing on the ground, you're on the edge.
The earth is inverted and we live on the inside edge.
Plain and simple. The science is there, the scriptures attest to it.

It's going to be quite funny when this all is known to all mankind, how you all have stretched your brain in the opposite direction.

Bugs in a box is a good analogy,
like God seeing the nations as a drop in a bucket. (Isaiah 40)

And no need to insert God, because he's already there(in the center, behind the celestial sphere, he covers himself with the dark waters and clouds(nebulae), he hides himself(Is 45) in the pavilion.(2Sam22)

Think of the "universe" as a single cell. The nucleus(heaven) is in the center.
the glass in the sky has distorted our perception of the heavens. This is God's "trick" on mankind, to keep the simple truths from the "wise" and "prudent" and reveal them unto children.

If you believe the Bible and cannot believe that God is in the center of the cavenous earth, then you're a hypocrite. If the universe is really how you believe it to be then you cannot tangibly understand where the top of God's pillar of fire was, where the top of the ladder that Jacob saw was, wher the top of the fire that consumed Elijah's sacrifice was, where the literal flesh of Jesus Christ is dwelling(next to his Father's right hand), how the sun stood still for 2 days.

Your foundational understanding of science is literally in "opposition" (1Tim 6:2)

Jesus did not pass into another twilight zone dimesion, he is literally only about 4,000 miles away. My doctrine is right.

No, the edge of the universe is not infinite. It is quite finite, quite small.
The whole earth shall be full of the knowledge of God very, very soon.

Job 38:33.

Since the universe expands faster than light, we will probably never know. However, since there is no room for nothing to exist...we will never truly know, honestly.

Here's my take,

The universe has no center or edge. The universe is made of spacetime. The universe is expanding. Ergo spacetime is expanding. Spacetime has four dimensions. The expansion of spacetime (a four dimensional construct) implies at least one other dimension exists, similar to the way that the expansion of the "dotted balloon's" two dimensional surface implies the existence of a third dimension. It is this (or these) other dimensions into which spacetime is expanding. It is not necessary for "more space to be created" for this to happen.

Print a series of "Peanuts" cartoons on a ballon and blow it up. Ask Charlie Brown where the edge of his universe is. He can't see it, but you can.

Now, as to the question of where you would end up if you lived long enough and traveled fast enough, this is a function of the shape of the 4 dimensional construct (spacetime) as it sits embedded in the multidimensional space (multiverse). Is it the surface of a "hyper-hypersphere", is it a "hyper-hyperbolic" surface, is it a "hyper-toroidal surface? The answer to these questions may lie beyond our capabilities to discover, but the questions themselves, and the mathematical constructs and possible solutions are most certainly not beyond our capabilities. All of the theories have solutions, it may, however, be impossible for us to discover which theory is correct.

If you must have an edge, consider the event horizon of a black hole. The universe as we know it ends at the event horizon.

To my knowlege, the most recent theories are that the universe will continue to expand forever, but maybe I'm wrong (and maybe they are wrong too.) Recently it was found that not only is the universe expanding, but the expansion is accelerating. This has lead to the recent theory that the expansion must then continue forever.

Prior to this discovery, the debate centered on whether the mass of the universe was enough to stop the expansion. And if so, was the mass sufficient not only to stop the expansion but also to begin a contraction down to the "big crunch". Someone in a previous posting asked if the big crunch involved only matter or was spacetime also involved. The way I remember the idea was that it was a true big bang in reverse, that is a contraction of spacetime itself.

Sorry to run on so long, but you must agree that there is a lot to this subject

Harte

The end of the universe happens at the end of the 21st century. It's that quick. Can you believe it? Don't let the time travellers trick you into thinking there is a 22nd century.

This is the truth. Don't let anyone fool you! Be warned! This information is very scary!

What is beiond the universe, I mean nothing? can you move in to that nothing? like can you move in to that nothing deeper and deeper? would you further your self from the universe by moving in to that nothing?
You are on the edge of the universe,matter stops existing to the point you cross the edge, by moving further and further do you get further and further away from the edge?
And one other thing are black holes a way out of the universe?

[edit on 16-8-2006 by pepsi78]