No US law compels filing a 1040

The following is a bit difficult to read because it's filled with legal minutia, but the argument was sufficient proof to cause the evil IRS to drop the case against a beligerant non-filer.

We The People; No law compels filing a 1040

I posted this on another thread thought you would like to have a look at it. The IRS is about as legal as the federal reserve system...

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by Enigmatic Debris
Is there any way to send the Federal Reserve System & Fractional Banking into oblivion? If it can, I say we do it before it's too late.

Are any Congressmen still willing to take them on? If anyone has seen anything on C-SPAN or C-SPAN2 concerning this, please let us know.

There was a group of citizens who figured out the federal reserve system, to make a long and complicated explination of the US Monetary system story short, they basicly called the debt in on the US Dollar and started printing a private currency (which is legal to do, if you have ever had a disney dollar, it is the same legal jargon). But you have heard of these folks I'm sure, the Montanna Freemen. There is one hell of a lot more to that story than most folks think, and the freemen were on to something Uncle Sam could not abide. Since the Federal Reserve, your five dollar bill is no longer five dollars, it is a Federal Reserve NOTE, an unsecured loan, upon which you as a taxpayer pay interest on. Ah but it gets better, you're not only paying interest on an illegal unsecured loan, your securing your five dollar loan against nothing but the value of your own labor force. There is no standard for our monetary system anymore, the only thing a dollar is, is a dollar saying you and millions of others will get up, go to work and make that buck back to repay the dollar with interest the next morning. And then you pay taxes on the money they loan us to borrow... It's hard to explain and I am no financial wiz, but The Montanna Freemen figured this out, and did the paperwork and the US Treasury ended up owing them dough. Next thing you know FBI (and Treasury) are genitalia deep in a almost Waco like showdown.
Here's some more info...

Originally posted by twitchy
The federal reserve system violates the US constitution, yes, Echtelion is correct. The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 pushed through the legislature by Woodrow Wilson was nothing short of treason and a clear violation of the US constitution. Article 1, section 8 of the US Constitution states that Congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate it's value, but the federal reserve act gave this power to a private corporation, the shares of which are not traded publicly, nor is it regulated or mandated by congress. They print money with no backing whatsoever, at no interest, then loans it to the treasury, with interest. They also retain the rights to purchase national debt (which is also illegal) and charge interest for it. The ones chiefly responsible for this are...

www.worldnewsstand.net...
Rothschild Bank of London (Jewish)
Warburg Bank of Hamburg (Jewish)
Rothschild Bank of Berlin (Jewish)
Lehman Brothers of New York (Jewish)
Lazard Brothers of Paris (Jewish)
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York (Jewish)
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy (Jewish)
Goldman, Sachs of New York (Jewish)
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam (Jewish)
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Rockefellers Interesting History...)

To put this in layman's terms, your ten dollar bill is not ten dollars, it's a note, or a debt. In actuality, your ten dollars is a ten dollar debt, which you, as a taxpayer, are paying interest on.

A few points of interest...

www.scionofzion.com...
The Federal Reserve was incorporated in 1914 and has been creating a completely unnecessary national debt ever since. In simple terms, the Fed creates money as debt. They create money out of thin air by nothing more than a book entry. Whenever the members of the Fed make any loans, that debt money is our money supply.
The United States went bankrupt in 1938 because of this system. It took the Fed only 25 years to bankrupt the USA. Can you imagine how little time it would take these vultures to bankrupt a developing nation? The American people are paying about $300 billion dollars a year in interest to this phony organization. When you look in the Washington, D.C. phone book, you will not find the Federal Reserve in the Government section as they are a private concern.
The national debt is increased about $1.71 billion dollars every day (as of October 12, 2004) . Have you taken a look at your money? It says "Federal Reserve Note" which means it is an instrument of debt. There is no real money in circulation.

There is no system in place to audit the Federal Reserve, at all. And not only is it illegal by the terms of the US constitution, the US supreme Court has also declared this practice unconstitutional...

source
Although the FED is required to give back most of its PROFITS back to the Treasury Dept., there is NO ORGANIZATION that has the power to AUDIT the FED (not even the Congress or the IRS). This creates a HUGE opportunity for "creative accounting" to hide the profit that ROBS the US Tax Payers Hundreds of Billions of Dollars annually....
According to Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, the US Congress has the power to print money (The Congress shall have the power... ...to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, ...). According to the Supreme Court, the Congress can not transfer its power to other organization like the FED....

From the same source, a good summary as to how the system operates...

source
The US goverment runs a $400 billion deficit annually. To cover this, the US goverment issues bonds which are bought by the FED.
Since the FED has the POWER TO PRINT MONEY, it can buy any amount of the US Government bonds at almost NO COST, save for the expense of printing money (~3 cents/$100).
At this point, the owners of the FED already profit $99.97 for every 3c they invested to print the money. Basically, they exchange something that costs almost nothing to them with the US Government Bonds.
Since the FED can NOT be AUDITTED by the IRS (or even by Congress), most of this profit can go anywhere the FED owners want to. BTW, did I mention that the profit is TAX-FREE?
After buying the bonds, the owner of the FED can either:
1. Keep the bonds, and collect the interest the US Government now OWES them.
2. Sell the bonds to the US Tax Payers or foreigners.
In either case, the FED owners have profitted $99.97 for every 3 cents it invested to print the money. Remember, the FED is a PRIVATELY OWNED corporation, just like the Federal Express. The profit of the FED goes to the FED owners.
The US Government now owes the FED owners the interest on those bonds. Remember that the FED owners DO NOT EARN the bonds. They simply PRINT the money to buy the bonds. In other words, they created money out of thin air, and exchange it for the interest bearing bonds.
In order to pay for the bonds' interest, the US Government taxes the US population.
When a US Citizen holding US Government bonds receives his/her return of investment on the bonds, essentially the money he/she receives is the tax money he/she is paying to the Government.
When the OWNERS of the FED receives the interest on the BONDS they're holding, they are receiving that money for FREE (save the initial 3cent/$100 investment to print the money)! Not only that, the FED owners receive the money TAX FREE.
Under the LAW, the FED is REQUIRED to RETURN its PROFIT back to the US Treasury. However, NEITHER the Congress NOR the IRS have the POWER to AUDIT the FED. The FED has used this obvious loophole to profit via 'creative accounting'.
Consider this: every year, the FED profits by hundreds of billions of dollars by buying US Government Bonds. Yet it only returns ~$20 billion to the US Treasury. The rest of the profit has been spent as "Operational Expenses".
The FED expects us to believe that the FED operational expenses amounts to $100's billion dollars annually!!!
The truth is, those profits were spent as "DIVIDENDS TO SHAREHOLDERS"!!!!

The final blow to the US Currency came in the form of the Emergency Banking Act, designed to 'pull us out' of the Great Depression, all it did in reality was eliminate the last obstacle to the Federal Reserve Company by elimination the need to back their notes.
A good explination of the act is here...

Income tax is also illegal, but that's a whole other can of worms. How do they get away with this kind of crap? Ever wonder why the District of Columbia isn't a state? We the people are basically ruled and taxed by a foriegn entity...
home.iae.nl...
Scary stuff...

[edit on 20-1-2005 by twitchy]

//ed to shorten several loooong links//

[edit on 22-5-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

Blah, blah, blah. Yeah,yeah,yeah.

Go ahead, quit filing.

See what happens, and please fill me in.

Talk is cheap, if you really believe in not paying your taxes, go for it.

Originally posted by simtek 22
Blah, blah, blah. Yeah,yeah,yeah.

Go ahead, quit filing.

See what happens, and please fill me in.

Talk is cheap, if you really believe in not paying your taxes, go for it.

You'll get arrested of course. But if there is no actual requirement to file a return, and yet people are imprisoned for failing to do so, then we are living under a de facto dictatorship, where the executive branch can do whatever the hell it pleases. Doesn't that bother you?

spamandham-I'd try talking to a lawyer first. I wouldn't base my freedom on what someone on some anti-government website says.

What makes you think it's the executive branch behind the taxes. I believe that Congress has a little to do with it too.

Sim, the FACT of the matter is, you do not have to file the form. Would you like to have a little harmless fun? Go down to your local IRS office and ask an agent to show you the statute and implementing regulation that requires you to pay income tax. They will attempt to offer you IRS codes, but codes are neither statutes or implementing regulations. After a while of your persistence, the agent will get up to get something, and will then go out the back door. It's fun!

Now, here's the kicker. Once you join the volunteer club, you must continue to abide the club rules (IRS codes). It is difficult to opt out of the club once you have established yourself as a member, but it can be done. I know those who have, and most would suggest to just stay in the system.

If you are serious about researching and possibly going that avenue, here is a club that you might find helpful: www.livefree.com...

TC-Umm......have you done this.

I get the whole point about not paying taxes all, I've just been in the club for to long.

Thanks for the link though.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Would you like to have a little harmless fun?

I'd rather hunt possums for fun.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hunt'em? I prefer using a car. The tires are reusable!

What TC no reloading bench in the basement?

Deciding not to pay taxes anymore is tempting these days. Especially considering even illegal immigrants get priority for subsidized health care over me. Man there really are days where it's not worth getting out of bed.

Sigh, not this old yarn again. Aren't there like a dozen threads where people have claimed this same thing?

Well, here's a fun diversion for you all. Hire a tax laywer (you know, lawyers are those people who have actually studied the law) and ask him if you are required to file a 1040 or not. I think you'll be surprised to find the answer is yes.

As for the legality of doing so, I've explained this in detail at the following thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Essentially, there IS statute making it nessecary to pay your taxes (its in the friggin' US Code people!), the 1040 is an administrative requirement so it won't be mentioned by name in the tax code, and the Supreme Court (you know, the ones who interpret the law) have declined from striking down the Constitutionality of paying income tax despite many an opportunity to do so.

Still, have fun playing lawyer all you nay-sayers. See where it gets you.

-koji K.

[edit on 22-5-2005 by koji_K]

Did any of you naysayers actually read the link? This was an actual court case, that was actually dismissed as a result of the evidence submitted. This isn't just theory or propoganda. If you think it's a lie, look it up in the public records for yourself.

Whether you are required to pay taxes on wages is a totally different question from whether or not there is any legal basis in the IRS compelling submittal of a 1040. This case would have set a legal precendence for nonfiling had it not been dismissed, but not for nonpayment.

Twitchy - FYI, the Constitution gives Congress the power to COIN money. Notes have existed going way back in our history. The best way to get rid of the Federal Reserve is to start using $1 coins. And then Congress will make $5 coins, etc...

There is no requirement to file your taxes. In fact, in the 80's & 90's the IRS Commissioner thanks you for voluntary filing right in the very front of the 1040 manual. Nowadays they say they are there to help you determine such things. But when you write them and ask if you require to file, or required to pay, they refuse to answer.

I once filed an affidavit to have the Income Tax no longer withheld from my payroll check. Everyone at the company was flabbergasted. The company owner went directly to the IRS Office in Washington DC and presented my affidavit. The IRS told him that if I didn't pay my taxes, he would have to pay them. Scared him to death. But this also proves you don't have to file, or pay, right from the IRS's mouth.

Again, Koji, I know those who have done it. Not heard about those, but know those.

The 1040 is an administrative requirement, but it is being misused and we are filling out the wrong paperwork. Of course, that's the way it'd have to be in order to fit us into the system.

I wouldn't expect a tax attorney to tell me any other way than the way you say they would. And, I wouldn't expect my tax preparer to do so, either. She wasn't able to produce the statute and implementing regulation, either. Oh, she came close, but as the IRS and ATF aren't connected.....

Originally posted by Qwas
Twitchy - FYI, the Constitution gives Congress the power to COIN money. Notes have existed going way back in our history. The best way to get rid of the Federal Reserve is to start using $1 coins. And then Congress will make $5 coins, etc...

Yes, but notes aren't really the problem though, the problem is there is nothing securing these notes, whatsoever. In fact the only security behind the US dollar is a debt to the share holders of the Federal Reserve. The constitution does give congress the power to coin money, but it also expressly forbids delegating this power to a private organization. The Federal Reserve Act was quite literally treasonous. An unsecured loan is illegal, that's why when you go the bank to borrow money, they require collateral, while a credit company will be glad to loan you money because they aren't really loaning you anything but their CREDIT, their notes, your visa card. It is the smae with the federal reserve system, only the taxpayers are the ones paying the notes off, so they can print more debt, so we can make more money, to pay the notes off, so they can print more debt, and so on and so on, until your too old to work, or you die. Meanwhile, they skim the interest off and eat fancy things you never heard of and hold meetings to discuss the next years wars around big stone owl gods and such. What a world.

Twitchy, I back you 100% and totally agree. I hate the Federal Reserve (FRS) and what it has done to this country. To top off what you say, The FRS never prints money for the interest which forces bankruptcy. They get the US Mint to pay the expense of printing their money which they then loan to us.

However, the FRS has nothing to do with US Coins. That money goes to the US Mint. So by us using $1, $5, $10, and $20 coins; we could effectively put a stop on the FRS.

Congress could also make a $1 trillion coin (hopefully out of recycled plastic) and use it to pay back our debts to the FRS.

Unfortunately, no one in government is brave enough to take on the FRS.

Originally posted by spamandham
Did any of you naysayers actually read the link? This was an actual court case, that was actually dismissed as a result of the evidence submitted. This isn't just theory or propoganda. If you think it's a lie, look it up in the public records for yourself.

Whether you are required to pay taxes on wages is a totally different question from whether or not there is any legal basis in the IRS compelling submittal of a 1040. This case would have set a legal precendence for nonfiling had it not been dismissed, but not for nonpayment.

I searched but could not locate the case you mention in several databases. There are many reasons one could dismiss a case. Without seeing the judges order it's impossible to comment or assume anything.

You are permitted to file a substitute form by the IRS, which must meet very stringent requirements. (Described in Rev. Proc. 98-65, 1998-52 I.R.B. 40., for the bureaucratically minded...) But if you don't file either a 1040, OR a substitute return before the alotted time, you are subject to assessment by the IRS itself. The 1040 is your chance to self-assess, why would you want to not file one, given that you are required to pay your income tax either way? You don't have to file, but the alternative is the IRS just determines your tax for you. It's a system of carrots and sticks.

So, no, I suppose you are not required to file the 1040 *as found at your tax office, post office, embassy, where ever...* but you still have to file as the IRS requests you to, unless you want to suffer financial consequences.

-koji K.

[edit on 23-5-2005 by koji_K]

[edit on 23-5-2005 by koji_K]

Originally posted by koji_K
So, no, I suppose you are not required to file the 1040 *as found at your tax office, post office, embassy, where ever...* but you still have to file as the IRS requests you to, unless you want to suffer financial consequences.

But that's the whole point. You are not required to file anything. You are only legally required to pay the taxes. If you allow the IRS to assess them instead, you would still have the right to challenge their assesment.

The difference is huge. If the IRS assess your taxes, you can't be held liable for errors the IRS might make in assessing your taxes since you have not waived your fifth amendment rights under such a scenario. Without a subpoena, you are under no legal obligation to provide the IRS with any financial information.

But a subpoena is specific. They have to ask you for what they want, it's not just a fishing expedition. For that, they would require a search warrant. But even then, you are under no obligation to cooperate beyond the terms of the warrant.

Originally posted by spamandham
But that's the whole point. You are not required to file anything. You are only legally required to pay the taxes. If you allow the IRS to assess them instead, you would still have the right to challenge their assesment.

The difference is huge. If the IRS assess your taxes, you can't be held liable for errors the IRS might make in assessing your taxes since you have not waived your fifth amendment rights under such a scenario. Without a subpoena, you are under no legal obligation to provide the IRS with any financial information.

But a subpoena is specific. They have to ask you for what they want, it's not just a fishing expedition. For that, they would require a search warrant. But even then, you are under no obligation to cooperate beyond the terms of the warrant.

Keep in mind you will be going to IRS Court and not a regular court. IRS Court is an Administrative Court that follows more of the rules of a Civil court. Here, you are not innocent until proven guilty. You are automatically guilty and must prove otherwise. The IRS Court will also tell you have no Constitutional Rights in their Court so forget your arguments about the 4th or 5th Amendment.

Originally posted by Qwas
Keep in mind you will be going to IRS Court and not a regular court. IRS Court is an Administrative Court that follows more of the rules of a Civil court. Here, you are not innocent until proven guilty. You are automatically guilty and must prove otherwise. The IRS Court will also tell you have no Constitutional Rights in their Court so forget your arguments about the 4th or 5th Amendment.

This is yet another gross violation of the Constitution. There's nothing in the Constitution that allows the IRS to try you in an off-book court, or to force you to waive your Constitutional rights. I'm not sure that tax court applies to those who have not signed a tax return.