Elections in Germany in 2006

Originally posted by looking4truth
I have been reading about German politics and I have to admit that as an American who speaks very little German it's very hard to find information.

Try this. Its the english service of the "DER SPIEGEL" magazine, comparable to the "Times" magazine. It is Germanies most renowned Political and news magazine. Regrettably not all articles are translated, but its the most reliable Germany source in English I know of.

Although your little summary of the current situation is partly correct

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Chirac and Shrouder thought they were going to make a supreme Europe with them in charge, its backfired , nobody sees them as good politicians , just greedy men who are now has beens.

Again an attempt to present your opinion as generally valid. Dont you think it is in UKs interest, too, to increase European partnership? Dont you think there were others as well that supported EU constitution? Dont you think there is more about the EU than "who is in charge"?

Originally posted by Wodan
Who ever said the CDU is far right?

The only thing they said to the immigration policy is, that they want to stop more immigration, to prevent germany of the "multicultural society" and that they want instead better familiy policy.

www.spiegel.de...

Angela Merkel reduced the influence of the right wing of the CDU, which is to a large part the bavarian CSU. Mind you, the right-wing view is not only defined by its stance on foreigners, but rather their view on society. In the last elections she stepped down to let that patriarchs in the CDU/CSU run their candidate against Schröder, knowing that he would not win, and now swept in as a "saviour" and positioned the CDU back in the middle where it always should have been (as a descendant of the Weimarer Republik´s "Zentrum" party). And the current immigration discussion carries on the wrongs of the past by not acknowledging Germany as an immigration country. Most people that came to Germany were regarded as guests and not as people willing to live their life in Germany as Germans. Therefor these people face unnecessary hardships when applying for citizenship, creating many more problems.

Originally posted by Wodan
british foreign news is crap, I know this newspaper "Sun", they always spread hate about every other nation, [...]...

You wouldnt want German people to be defined by its tabloid papers and magazines, right? Thats exactly what you are doing! Although british tabloids may be exceptionally rough, they are not what defines the political knowledge of the british population... and the romantic relationship some Brits seem to have with terms like "Blitzkrieg", "Fritz" and "Frogs" is, although unnerving, a result of the last century that will eventually fade away, and they are not the only ones still fascinated and influenced by the world wars.

Angela Merkel reduced the influence of the right wing of the CDU, which is to a large part the bavarian CSU. Mind you, the right-wing view is not only defined by its stance on foreigners, but rather their view on society. In the last elections she stepped down to let that patriarchs in the CDU/CSU run their candidate against Schröder, knowing that he would not win, and now swept in as a "saviour" and positioned the CDU back in the middle where it always should have been (as a descendant of the Weimarer Republik´s "Zentrum" party).

YOU SAID

The CDU has Angela Merkel who has made some good moves and has improved the image of the CDU by distancing the party from the far right.

so you called me a far right, but the right wing of CDU/CSU isnt far right, its just normally conservative, while the left wing is social democratic.

And the party will always stay right wing, and not get a liberalistic party as you want it in your sick wet dreams!

It will never get "Zentrum", it will stay right!

My party happily got more right in the last months, than it was before, Its NOT a liberalistic party, its a consoervative party, and It will stay it, nothing like your leftie dreams!!!


And IF it got zentrum, it it would be replaced by a new right party, and maybe byself would either get forgotten or replace the FDP (the party thats atm liberalist)

And the current immigration discussion carries on the wrongs of the past by not acknowledging Germany as an immigration country. Most people that came to Germany were regarded as guests and not as people willing to live their life in Germany as Germans. Therefor these people face unnecessary hardships when applying for citizenship, creating many more problems.

It seems by this sentence that you want to destroy the german people.

You want to replace germans by people by a mixure of all-nations-people, are you so afraid of us germans and so hateful, you want to stop us of existing?




Ich würde dich gerne mit den schlimmsten Worten beleidigen die ich kenne, aber da ich in dem Fall hier rausfliegen würde, unterlasse ich es, du nennst den rechten flügel meiner Partei rechtsextrem, damit mich als teil des rechten flügels auch, zusätzlich erzählst du von deinen träumen, aus meiner partei eine vaterlandslose "Zentrums" partei zu machen, und deutest das auchnoch als wahrheit.





[edit on 11-7-2005 by Wodan]

You wouldnt want German people to be defined by its tabloid papers and magazines, right? Thats exactly what you are doing! Although british tabloids may be exceptionally rough, they are not what defines the political knowledge of the british population... and the romantic relationship some Brits seem to have with terms like "Blitzkrieg", "Fritz" and "Frogs" is, although unnerving, a result of the last century that will eventually fade away, and they are not the only ones still fascinated and influenced by the world wars.

My girlfriend was with her class in england, the brits spew at her class and hunted them trough the town, when they found out that the class is german, (happend not just in one town) one of the brits masturbated on the street onto my girlfriend, the teachers had to phone the police!!!!

Its not as if it was just those newspapesr that are hateful towards germans...

YOU WILL NEVER SEE THIS HAPPENING IN GERMANY TOWARDS ANY GUEST


(Also we dont try to burn down churches of different peoples anymore, unlike you do it at the moment)

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Wodan]

Originally posted by Wodan
YOU SAID

The CDU has Angela Merkel who has made some good moves and has improved the image of the CDU by distancing the party from the far right.

so you called me a far right, but the right wing of CDU/CSU isnt far right, its just normally conservative, while the left wing is social democratic.

You might check the first page again, it was looking4truth that said that and not me. Get your quotes right before getting angry, otherwise your argumentation might seem a bit out of line...

Furthermore, I only stated facts, please point out to me where I said anything that is not true.

Originally posted by Wodan
Ich würde dich gerne mit den schlimmsten Worten beleidigen die ich kenne, aber da ich in dem Fall hier rausfliegen würde, unterlasse ich es, du nennst den rechten flügel meiner Partei rechtsextrem, damit mich als teil des rechten flügels auch, zusätzlich erzählst du von deinen träumen, aus meiner partei eine vaterlandslose "Zentrums" partei zu machen, und deutest das auchnoch als wahrheit.

Well I´ve seen your edited your post, but I still have the original version of your little rant in my clipboard... Thats some pretty nasty words you know . But I decided not to post my translation that was much fun to do because you retreated and erased the original message. You are not the only person here that understands a bit German, and its cowardly to post this in another language knowing that most wont be able to understand it, instead of just PMing me what kind of "disgusting SOB" I am and how much you´d like it to "pepper me with a machine gun" (quotes)

Originally posted by Wodan
Its not as if it was just those newspapesr that are hateful towards germans...

YOU WILL NEVER SEE THIS HAPPENING IN GERMANY TOWARDS ANY GUEST

(Also we dont try to burn down churches of different peoples anymore, unlike you do it at the moment)

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Wodan]

Then explain to me where the more than 10.000 exteme right motivated crimes (more than 700 of them violent crimes) per YEAR in Germany originate from? All I see is you pointing fingers, remember, criticism starts with yourself before you can judge others...

[edit on 11/7/2005 by Lonestar24]

Then explain to me where the more than 10.000 exteme right motivated crimes (more than 700 of them violent crimes) per YEAR in Germany originate from? All I see is you pointing fingers, remember, criticism starts with yourself before you can judge others...

10,000 extreme right motivated crimes? source?

And this is totally different, those are some skinheads, not average citizens like in the UK

So when do you apologize for saying there is a far right wing in the CDU/CSU?

Originally posted by Wodan
10,000 extreme right motivated crimes? source?

And this is totally different, those are some skinheads, not average citizens like in the UK

I dont know why I even bother, but here you go: German Secret Service document, page 23, paragraph 2.2.2. Try arguing against that.

Considering the skinhead movement (although there are different branches) originated in the UK, why should it be a different type of people having anti-foreigner views there than here? And generally everyone who is a right extremist can perform such anti-foreigner actions, it doesnt matter whether their head is shaven and their shoelaces are white, its all the same despisable character.

Originally posted by Wodan
So when do you apologize for saying there is a far right wing in the CDU/CSU?

Apart from that you are not in the position to claim an apology after you showed a lack of discussion culture and became personally insulting (which I could care less about), there is nothing that I could apologize for. I asked you before to get your quotes straight.... Please show me where I wrote anything about a far right wing in this sentence:

Originally posted by Lonestar24
Angela Merkel reduced the influence of the right wing of the CDU, which is to a large part the bavarian CSU.

Thats all I said, nothing more, nothing less. Maybe you should finally admit to yourself that you got the message completely wrong and stop trying to raise a discussion about this. But just go on ranting.... I like jokes.

[edit on 11/7/2005 by Lonestar24]

Originally posted by Lonestar24
Angela Merkel reduced the influence of the right wing of the CDU, which is to a large part the bavarian CSU.

Thats all I said, nothing more, nothing less. Maybe you should finally admit to yourself that you got the message completely wrong and stop trying to raise a discussion about this. But just go on ranting.... I like jokes.

[edit on 11/7/2005 by Lonestar24]

liar

The CDU has Angela Merkel who has made some good moves and has improved the image of the CDU by distancing the party from the [b]far right.

you are now offically ignored by me

Originally posted by Wodan


you are now offically ignored by me

Why am I not surpised?

This guy acts like he was knowledgeable about Germany, but he's not.

Hehe, I am not surprised by him, I am amazed. Amazed at how upset he got on that "Angela Merkel and the far right" quote that

a. Wasnt said by me, it was said by Looking4truth on the first page, and...

b. Doesnt imply that there is an extremist arm in the CDU. It simply says that Angela Merkel goes to a distance from ANY type of far right movement.

Well, I am not the one who made a fool of himself here.

And Atheix, my knowledge of Germany is profound. All my points are valid (though I am not saying they wouldnt be discussable).

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't realize German politics were so divisive.

It's almost like the '04 US elections, people from all over the planet getting hot under the collar over candidates they might know little or nothing about. I hope for the German's sanity that they don't have to endure the endless ranting about the candidates by people who aren't even citizens like we had to in the US. At the same time though they can't go renameing cheeseburgers to "Deutchlander Burgers" or anything crazy just because the candidates get some international critisism like we did with "freedom fries".

Relax, discuss it, but remember my German friends, you can't vote if you're not a citizen, so a yank like me or a brit can only have an opinion. No big deal.

Originally posted by looking4truth
... At the same time though they can't go renameing cheeseburgers to "Deutchlander Burgers" or anything crazy just because the candidates get some international critisism like we did with "freedom fries".

Relax, discuss it, but remember my German friends, you can't vote if you're not a citizen, so a yank like me or a brit can only have an opinion. No big deal.

I guess the USS Ronald McDonald would come over to Germany and and nuke it with its weapons of mass franchise if they dared that. Wait, they dont have to, Germany already has the Hamburger!

Hehe, forgive me, but I had to spank that Wodan character a bit...

Originally posted by AtheiX
It may sound stupid because as an ethnical German living outside of Germany I shouldn't probably "stick my nose" into German politics.

Hey, don't worry about it, Germany stuck their nose into American politics. No need to create a double standard

Originally posted by Lonestar24

And Atheix, my knowledge of Germany is profound.

No, it isn't, and we (Wodan and I) have already shown why a few times. For example in the "EU about to punish Germany" thread.

Hmm, wasnt that the thread where you contradicted yourself by completely changing the sides? First you said "dont vote the SPD" since Hans Eichel has studied 4 professions you didnt think to fit his position and then you said "vote the SPD" BECAUSE he had studied 4 professions? And it was the thread where I posted some facts to back up my claim, I am still waiting for you to back up YOUR opinions.

Until that, you (or Wodan) havent said ANYTHING that would prove my statements to be wrong. I advise you to read the ATS headline again: "Deny Ignorance".

Perhaps it would be best to get back to discussing the upcoming German elections and not each other, hmmm?

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Perhaps it would be best to get back to discussing the upcoming German elections and not each other, hmmm?

You are right, so now some news:

The party which formerly led eastern germany SED (sozialistische einheitspartei/socialist unity party), which after 1990 renamed PDS/SED (Partei des demokratischen Sozialismusses/Sozialistische einheitspartei Party of democratic socialism/socialist unity party), and then to PDS (Partei des demokratischen sozialismusses/Party of democratic socialism), now renamed to "Die Linkspartei" (the leftie party)

And they want to work together in the federal elections with the new founded WASG which are left-wing social democrats that splitted off from the Social democratic party, which rules atm in germany in a coalition with green party (Bündnis 90'/Die Grünen)


Atm (july the 17th) it looks like this (forsa institute):
46% CDU/CSU(socialcatholic/economic liberalist/national conservative)
27% SPD (Social democratic, some way like tony blairs labor)
10% Die Linkspartei/WASG (ultra-left)
7% FDP (libertarians)
7% Bündis 90'/Die Grünen (green party)
3% others

with 46%, the CDU/CSU still has 51% of the seats in parliament, as the 3% that are under 5% each, dont get seats in parliament.

so a slight total majority.

Propably it will get down to below of 51% and then have to coalate with the libertarians (which are way less radical than the ones in the usa)


But that would be good, as in the federal council, which has to agree to important laws, there is a majority by conservative-libertarian coalitions, and if the conservatives did get a total majority, they would have to make the agreements with libertarians always outside of the goverment.


The far-left extremist party is a real danger, they want to destroy our nation it seems, here out of the "Bild"-Zeitung of nowadays (its compareable with Sun, but here they are correct:

Berlin – Does Oskar Lafontaine and Gregor Gysi make jerks out of the voters?

Or do they think, they can promise, what they in the end dont really will do?

BILD has calculated: The electoral promises of their leftie party cost un-payable 90 billion euro! And this in times of empty state-purse, and a state-debt of already 1.4 trillion euro!

BILD discovers five unpayable electoral lies of Lafo, Gysi & Co.:

LIE I, Work: The leftie party demands a longer acquisition period of unemployment benefits (8 billion euro). And also an increase of Hartz IV (actually 345 Euro/month in the west, 331 €/Month east), to uniform 420 euro/month. How this shall be financed, isnt said.

LIE II, PENSIONS: The promised minimum-pension of 800 euro for all, who worked 30 years, charges the pension-kitty with 8 to 10 billion Euro. Total freedom of taxation for pension would even cost 13.4 billion euro. Also here the question, that isnt answered by the leftist party: Who shall pay this?

LIE III, children benefit: The demanded increase from 154 to 250 euro would cost 20.4 billion euro. Where want they take this from?

LIE IV, Taxation: An increase of the tax allowance from actually 7664 to 12000 Euro/year would cost despite a increase of the highest tax rate from 42% to 50% cause 6.3 billion euro of tax losses. Also here: how to finance it?

LIE V, INVESTITIONs: The leftie party promises 30 billion euro of state investions for education, culture, environment and public transport. Sounds nice, but sadly unpayable!

Are the germans just gullible? As Emnid institute says, the Leftistparty has already between of 11 and 12 percent!

social studies researcher Prof. Peter Lösche: "The people who vote the leftist party, dont beleave those promises. They just want to get the other partys over by that.

www.bild.t-online.de...

I dislike bild, not only for their lurid way, but also for other reasons, but the numbers they give are correct.

PS: The green party said it would cost even 150 billion euro more per year, not 90 billion, like this newspaper says, no matter who is right, we already spend way too much, and spending even more cant be the right way!

[edit on 20-7-2005 by Wodan]

Originally posted by Lonestar24
Hmm, wasnt that the thread where you contradicted yourself by completely changing the sides? First you said "dont vote the SPD" since Hans Eichel has studied 4 professions you didnt think to fit his position and then you said "vote the SPD" BECAUSE he had studied 4 professions?

That is because I changed my mind about Gerhard Schroeder and his government.

I think SPD should win because I think Germany doesn't need conservatives.

Hopefully this time you can find someone a bit taller....or at least someone who doesn't feel that he needs to be: