Russia to reduce ICMB armoury to just 300 by 2010

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
China may be ahead in all these economic numbers but is not even close to Russia's tech level.

It's a very deplorable to see Russia in its current woeful state when it deserves to be leading the world

lol. it deserves to be leading the world why ? and with what ? China will dwarf Russia in another decade.

I'd like to reply to two things two of you mentioned:

First off: United States not dismanteling too? That is simply not true.
While the United States does have a much more capable ICBM, SLBM, and bomber force than Russia you can't say the U.S. isn't dismanteling. The United States has dramatically reduced the number of warheads, has reduced the SLBM force by 4 (from 18 to 14), and is about to retire all 50 of the peacekeeper ICBMs. AND THIS ALL HAPPENED IN THE LAST two or three years or is about to happen.

Secondly: Russia is not economically powerful at all. Though you say the AVERAGE Russian is twice as wealthy as a Chinese, this isn't totally accurate. There is a large gap between rich and poor in Russia. In Siberia or other poor areas many have a per capita of less than $1000. The United States has a GDP of about 12 TRILLION dollars and a per capita of over $40,000 and Russia has a GDP of less than 2 trillion. Russia spends something like 50 billion on their military while the US spends well over 300 billion. The United States has about 300 million citizens (according to current 2005 data) compared to Russia with about 150 million. Even if Russia had huge cutbacks in non-defense spending and had a huge hike in taxes there is no feasible way Russia can compete with the US in the long term, much less maintain what they already have. And don't count on that "25 secret military city" stuff it's simply not possible considering Russia's economic situation. Russia probably is dismanteling when it says it is (though many would find this hard to believe) because it can barely maintain its ICBM force much less its decaying bomber and SLBM force.

Originally posted by chinawhite
i heard it got disentegrated in mid flight

Russia has successfully tested a hypersonic anti-Star Wars weapo capable of penetrating any prospective missile shield.

The prototype weapon proved it could maneuver so quickly as to make "any missile defense useless," Col.-Gen. Yuri Baluyevsky, the first deputy chief of the General Staff of the Russian armed forces, told a news conference.

He said that the prototype of a new hypersonic vehicle had proved its ability to maneuver while in orbit, thereby making it able to dodge an enemy's missile shield.

"The flying vehicle changed both the altitude and direction of its flight," Baluyevsky said. "During the experiment conducted yesterday, we proved that it's possible to develop weapons that would make any missile defense useless."

Baluyevsky's comment followed a statement by Russian President Vladimir Putin, who said Wednesday after attending rocket launches from the Plesetsk launch pad in northern Russia that experiments conducted during the military maneuvers had proven the country could build new strategic weapons that would be unrivaled in the world.

Putin said that the development of new weapons was not directed against the United States, and Baluyevsky reaffirmed the statement, saying that the experiment shouldn't be seen as Russia's response to U.S. missile defense plans.

"The experiment conducted by us must not be interpreted as a warning to the Americans not to build their missile defense because we designed this thing," Baluyevsky told The Associated Press.

Baluyevsky refused to comment on what kind of engine the vehicle had, how long its flight lasted or how exactly it maneuvered. He said that it had been designed by several Russian companies, but refused to name them.

As part of this week's massive military maneuvers described as the largest in more than two decades, the Russian military launched a Molniya-M booster rocket with a Kosmos military satellite from the northern Plesetsk launch pad, and launched two ballistic missiles -- a Topol from Plesetsk and an RS-18 from the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan.

Full Article....

[edit on 1-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Thats not new, we all know what a waste the ballistic missile shield of America is. All the money with basically no outcome except for the giant laser in the sky.

Topol-M could easily penetrate any kind of defence that any country could put up, all the chaffs, decoys, EW given from that BM could go through any kind of defence system that currently exists.

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
China may be ahead in all these economic numbers but is not even close to Russia's tech level.

It's a very deplorable to see Russia in its current woeful state when it deserves to be leading the world

lol. it deserves to be leading the world why ? and with what ? China will dwarf Russia in another decade.

sshhhhh..... not so loud, if Bush come to know about it, preemtive strike and will launch against China, billion will die

[edit on 1-6-2005 by betaiso]

A preemptive strike on China would mean the death of the world. Two words, nuclear winter.

The current missile defense system is kind of a joke, but the sea-based x-band radar is very powerful and is already built, eventually are missile defense will be able to effectively counter every country except for Russia. This will probably happen by 2010. The Aegis cruisers and the sm-3 interceptor have a nearly 100% success rate in the tests and the ground-based intereceptors in Alaska and California have an 80-85% success rate.

Originally posted by COWlan

Someone's watching too much propaganda movies. 25 most modern cities in the world which people have never set foot on?

Just for you to know, CIA's calculation of Russian PPP is $1.408 trillion (2004 est.)
www.cia.gov...

CIA's calculation of Chinese PPP is $7.262 trillion (2004 est.)
www.cia.gov...

Which means China's PPP is some 5 time MORE than Russia but Russia had much more of a head start than CHina although setbacks in the 90s did a lot.

CIA estimation of Chinese military spending is $67.49 billion (2004)
www.cia.gov...

Estimation of Russian military spending is around 50 billion
www.globalissues.org...

Which puts China ahead of Russia in military spending. The main part of the old Soviet Navy, Air force are getting mothballed because of the many years without proper upgrades and repairs and major cutbacks on maintenance.

Its not the cold war anymore, Russia won't be able to afford to maintain the 20000+ nukes USSR had in the cold war, most are already useless because of the major set backs of military spending in the 90s and plus, who's Russia gonna nuke? If it can't do with 3000, 20000 probably won't help either.

[edit on 27-5-2005 by COWlan]

""o Someone's watching too much propaganda movies. 25 most modern cities in the world which people have never set foot on?

"""

Oh sorry
I mistyped 20 there are estimated more than 200 such cities … here are the links… None of them are of Russian origin
www.yahwehsnewkingdom.com...
www.viewzone.com...


Now GDP

Though its useless to educate an ignorant person like you in economics….let me tell u certain things …If GDP(its not PPPas you type ) had been the Index of Wealth of a country then India would have been a richer country than the UK or Switzerland and China would have been richer that any country in the Western Europe .

GDP will be high any country with a big population and a big market…that doesn’t mean that the country is economically sound. There are certain other indexes to be considered along with GDP for example GDP per capita ,Growth rate ,Inflation, Budjet deficit etc to make a conclusion about a country .Else u ll get results like India is richer than Switzerland n china than the West…..

"Estimation of Russian military spending is around 50 billion
www.globalissues.org..."

U made a joke of yourself …Ha Ha Ha ….the link which u gave (though inaccurate ) clearly states Russian defense spending for 2003 is 65.2 b$ while the figure for China(2003) is 56B$ …it even says that Russia is the second largest defense spender in the world .
I thought that u are poor in economics now I see that I am arguing with a person who doesn’t even know nursery level Mathematics..

So this is for your information..... there is something which we out here call Mathematics and in it the figure 62.5 has a higher value than 56

How ever the figure for Russia is far from being accurate .

Russia doesn’t publish her defense budget officially .In 2000 there was an unofficial leak out of the budget based upon which all the authorities like the one u mentioned has estimated Russian Defense Budget to be 65.2 b (it was the Defense budget of 2000, though unofficial)but since 2000 till 2004 Defense budget has officially been increased by 30% per annum and in 2005 there had been 50% increase in the spending ….so today Russia’s defense budget is almost twice than that of China….....

Waiting for another foolish retaliation as you enjoy ur fool’s paradise .


[edit on 2-6-2005 by prelude]

You just made a joke of yourself man. 200 secret Russian cities which people never set foot on and they would be the most advanced in the world. I won't comment on this.

To estimate the economy of a country, neither GDP or PPP works. You must find a balance between GDP and PPP, some people overestimate GDP and some people over estimate PPP. If you want GDP then here

Rank Country 2005 GDP (nominal) millions of US dollars
1 United States 12,438,873
2 Japan 4,799,061
3 Germany 2,906,658
4 United Kingdom 2,295,039
5 France 2,216,273
6 People's Republic of China (Mainland) 1,843,117
7 Italy 1,836,407
8 Spain 1,120,312
9 Canada 1,098,446
10 Russia 755,437

SOURCE: International Monetary Fund, World Economic Outlook Database, April 2005.

Look at where Russia is. The Russian military/navy/airforce is mothballing as we speak, they are a potent force but they are mothballing. In a few years, Russia's navy would be decimated more than it is already, 1 Kirov active.

How much do you think Russia spends? 200 Billion? 500 Billion? 1 Trillion? Even in the cold war, USSR spent no more than 350 billion at its height.

Originally posted by nappyhead
I'd like to reply to two things two of you mentioned:

Secondly: Russia is not economically powerful at all. Though you say the AVERAGE Russian is twice as wealthy as a Chinese, this isn't totally accurate. There is a large gap between rich and poor in Russia. In Siberia or other poor areas many have a per capita of less than $1000. The United States has a GDP of about 12 TRILLION dollars and a per capita of over $40,000 and Russia has a GDP of less than 2 trillion. Russia spends something like 50 billion on their military while the US spends well over 300 billion. The United States has about 300 million citizens (according to current 2005 data) compared to Russia with about 150 million. Even if Russia had huge cutbacks in non-defense spending and had a huge hike in taxes there is no feasible way Russia can compete with the US in the long term, much less maintain what they already have. And don't count on that "25 secret military city" stuff it's simply not possible considering Russia's economic situation. Russia probably is dismanteling when it says it is (though many would find this hard to believe) because it can barely maintain its ICBM force much less its decaying bomber and SLBM force.

Sir,

I do agree that there are some places in Siberia and in the distant villages of Russia where the per capita income is miserably small(but not as small as you mentioned coz its impossible to stay alive in any place in Russia in 1000 per capita income), but Sir you are too inaccurate in your analysis because those distant places are inhabited by only about 20% of the country's population .In this case Russia differs with the rest of the world ...here most of the population(approx 80% in the last data that I saw) lives in Cities and Towns .I think weather is the main driving force.
And do you know who are the people inhabiting the sparsely populated southern Russia along the Chinese boder ?...they are all CHINESE (75% according to WHO ) REFUGEES - who have left China due to economic and political conditions ....you can never see Russians settling in China .


More over if I consider your analysis of" share of wealth between the rich and the poor" to be correct ...then how do we call India to be the second largest Rising economy in the World ? India one of the highest number of billionaires in the world(after The US, Germany, Japan and Russia) while in the villages(which houses 70% of the population ) people have a per capita income of less than 200$ .
But in spite of all these imbalances India today is one of the most promising economies in this planet.

I find a lot of misconception in this forum about the economic situation of Russia ….I think the main reason is an “Anti Russian Propaganda” by the Western Media , mainly for two reasons
1 They always aim to show others down so that people of their own country might not know their own problems .

2 Russia unlike the others dares to be different …when the rest of the Europe spinelessly supported the US against Iraq …It was only Russia who had the guts to OFFICIALLY oppose the move.

Well if you don't believe me then if your pocket supports then have a visit to Russia.... you can easily see the difference between whatever you have read and the realty.(most of the US citizen who have ever visited Russia say the same unless they are sponsored by the BBC or the CNN )

And about the US stuff ....I never compared Russia with the US ...even a child knows that US is economically powerful than Russia is.


[edit on 2-6-2005 by prelude]

Originally posted by prelude

Sir,

I do agree that there are some places in Siberia and in the distant villages of Russia where the per capita income is miserably small(but not as small as you mentioned coz its impossible to stay alive in any place in Russia in 1000 per capita income), but Sir you are too inaccurate in your analysis because those distant places are inhabited by only about 20% of the country's population .In this case Russia differs with the rest of the world ...here most of the population(approx 80% in the last data that I saw) lives in Cities and Towns .I think weather is the main driving force.
And do you know who are the people inhabiting the sparsely populated southern Russia along the Chinese boder ?...they are all CHINESE (75% according to WHO ) REFUGEES - who have left China due to economic and political conditions ....you can never see Russians settling in China .


More over if I consider your analysis of" share of wealth between the rich and the poor" to be correct ...then how do we call India to be the second largest Rising economy in the World ? India one of the highest number of billionaires in the world(after The US, Germany, Japan and Russia) while in the villages(which houses 70% of the population ) people have a per capita income of less than 200$ .
But in spite of all these imbalances India today is one of the most promising economies in this planet.

I find a lot of misconception in this forum about the economic situation of Russia ….I think the main reason is an “Anti Russian Propaganda” by the Western Media , mainly for two reasons
1 They always aim to show others down so that people of their own country might not know their own problems .

2 Russia unlike the others dares to be different …when the rest of the Europe spinelessly supported the US against Iraq …It was only Russia who had the guts to OFFICIALLY oppose the move.

Well if you don't believe me then if your pocket supports then have a visit to Russia.... you can easily see the difference between whatever you have read and the realty.(most of the US citizen who have ever visited Russia say the same unless they are sponsored by the BBC or the CNN )

And about the US stuff ....I never compared Russia with the US ...even a child knows that US is economically powerful than Russia is.


[edit on 2-6-2005 by prelude]

are you stupid.

if you never been to china then stfu. there are lots of russian living in china. they live in xinjiang used to be on the russian border.

What ordinary americans say that....??.....You. how much people have you asked. sayibng things like your talking about every person that went

Russia opposed the US in iraq because they owned a lot of the oil field. not because they throught it was wrong. china didn't oppose them because america said china could keep the oilfields.

People who say a country that has 200 secret cities is either psychologically stupid or just a plain dumdum.

Originally posted by Starwars51
300 ICBM's would not be enough for a retaliatory strike against the US

- I agree that the big reductions in nuclear missile numbers are to be welcomed, as is the general lower 'temperature'.

The only thing I would say as regards the capabilities is this, if the Russians are so far behind the USA in their capabilities to withstand a US first strike (ie the US has more missiles and warheads etc and the American war-perv element just imagines that is perfectly ok.......and then decides to try and use them) then we enter a hugely dangerous scenario.

There is only one possible likely credible response.

Launch on warning......

......and if it has come to that - or ever comes to that - God help us all.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by COWlan
People who say a country that has 200 secret cities is either psychologically stupid or just a plain dumdum.

Do you know who are the people and authorities who say that?
1The New York Times
2 The US Secretary of State (there have been many occasions when the Russian authorities have been questioned about these cities by the US authorities )
3 Prominent defense analysts

www.yahwehsnewkingdom.com...
www.viewzone.com...


….they are all stupid….fools ….blah blah blah
and the only one person who is intelligent in this world is the one who doesn’t know that 65.2 has a higher numerical value than 56

"A U.S. intelligence source was quoted as saying that the Yamantau complex is but one of some 200 secret deep underground nuclear war-fighting sites in Russia, many of which have been significantly upgraded over the past six years at a cost of billions of dollars."

its not cities but sites, kinda like 200 bunkers or other similar to it, he probably said it wrong.

See? Not cities you dumdum, underground facilities house tens maybe a few hundred people, Cities houses hundreds of THOUSANDS you dumdum.

Russia has nothing to fear from China????????????????????????????????/

I spit my coke through my nose at that. Someone has their head where sunlight never reaches.

China and Russia have been the least of friends for quite some time.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Russia has nothing to fear from China????????????????????????????????/

I spit my coke through my nose at that. Someone has their head where sunlight never reaches.

China and Russia have been the least of friends for quite some time.

was that meant to be best of friends or not good friends?

I thought you people were literate atleast .....if you are not sorry I cant help you....There is a language in this world which is called English these quotations are in the same language called english hope you can make out what it writes :

"" -- Starting in the Brezhnev period, Russia has been pursuing construction of a massive underground facility at Yamantau Mountain and the city of Mezhgorye (formerly the settlements of Beloretsk-15 and Beloretsk-16). Russia's 1997 federal budget lists the project as a closed territory containing installations of the Ministry of Defense.

On April 16, 1996, the New York Times reported on a mysterious military base being constructed in Russia:

"In a secret project reminiscent of the chilliest days of the Cold War, Russia is building a mammoth underground military complex in the Ural Mountains, Western officials and Russian witnesses say.
"Hidden inside Yamantau mountain in the Beloretsk area of the southern Urals, the project involved the creation of a huge complex, served by a railroad, a highway, and thousands of workers."


The complex, being built inside Yamantau mountain by tens of thousands of workers, covers an area the size of the Washington area inside the Beltway. ""

2 "Yamantau Mountain is the largest nuclear-secure project in the world... They have very large train tracks running in and out of it, with enormous rooms carved inside the mountain. It has been built to resist a half dozen direct nuclear hits, one after the other in a direct hole. It's very disquieting that the Russians are doing this when they don't have $200 million to build the service module on the international space station and can't pay housing for their own military people," ---Rep. Bartlett.


3
""This U.S. satellite photograph of the Yamantau Mountain [left] region was taken on Oct. 16, 1997. Clearly recognizable signs of excavation can be seen at the areas marked Yamantau Mountain and Mezhgorye. Two above-ground support cities, each housing 30,000 workers, are located at Beloretsk and Tirlyanskiy. ""
www.viewzone.com...

I thought that only we Russians were poor in english

Ken Timmerman, one of the best sources of information on the subject says,

"The Russians have constructed two entire cities over the site, known as Beloretsk 15 & 16, which are closed to the public, each with 30,000 workers. No foreigner has ever set foot near the site. A US military attaché stationed in Moscow was turned back when he attempted to visit the region a few years ago..."

Besides Yamantau Mountain, there is the Yavinsky Mountain underground complex and the Sherapovo bunker site, south of Moscow. Sherapovo is the primary command center for Russia's "civilian" leaders. The Kremlin is connected to Sherapovo and other bunkers by a secret subway line. Once at Sherapovo, they can conduct the war effort using a highly redundant communications system "allowing the leadership to send orders and receive reports through the wartime management structure,"
according to a 1988 Pentagon report.

these are very few known info about all those largely unknown and top secret cities

[edit on 4-6-2005 by prelude]