Newsweek Got it Right (Quran in the toilet)

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Look at Clinton, even DNA evidence couldn't convict him.

I thought Clinton was impeached? Did you really think they were going to throw clinton out of office for lying about an affair?

Anyway, it seems since then, news in America has been nothing but one big tabloid and you all are its supporters. Have fun.

[edit on 18-5-2005 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Oh, JJ, if we only had it that good! The real rule is GOP and America always guilty -- Dems and Liberals always innocent and right, no matter the evidence. Look at Clinton, even DNA evidence couldn't convict him.

With Clinton, you just displayed how well the media worked with him. The DNA evidence was absloutly worthless to the impeachment case. It was focused on Clinton subverting the judicial branch of government, and should have also included his attempt (and success) at illegally naturalizing aliens into citizen status when they were suspected of voting democrat in key battleground states in 1996.

I did forget about the impossibility of the GOP and America being proven innocent. We're seeing that now with this article. The only reason it was pulled, apparently, is due to that vast right wing conspiracy.

Way to go Newsweek. You published a bit of yellow journalism, got several people killed, and retracted your yellow journalism in such a manner so as to cause the Arab world and the Liberal world to assume it is still true, but now a coverup. You should be proud, you're serving our enemies better than our enemies are.

I have a great idea... reverse terrorism...

since they take their religion so seriously and are so protective of this holy book... then let us use this weakness against them...

ALL TERRORISTS EVERYWHERE... DROP YOUR WEAPONS AND SURRENDER...
OR EVERY AMERICAN PATRIOT WILL URINATE ON A KORAN... THEN FLUSH IT...
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED...
RELEASE THE HOSTAGES.... OR WE WILL TEAR A PAGE AND ROLL A CIG WITH IT.
it might even get the non-terrorist muslims to put pressure on thier terrorist brothers.

I would be willing to sign up for such a reverse terrorist threat...

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
it might even get the non-terrorist muslims to put pressure on thier terrorist brothers.

Only a small minority of the world's muslims are actually terrorists. I think this would cause them to put pressure on us and alienate them significantly. So, while this is a stupid idea you brought up, it was only a joke I guess.

Yes, you got the joke...

I wanted to use it to bring up a worrisome point...
at what point do we say... "sorry, but we don't care" to muslims that insist that we treat thier religion the way they do?

If we would have tried to cater to Native Americans like that, then we would have decided that America wasn't worth conquering, and joined our brothers in Australia.

Tolerance is good,
But...total respect and co-worship is unattainable... without severe compromise...as is being seen in modern airports with facial recognition software that could be useful... except that one of the primary targets hides behind face covers and religious tolerance laws...

time to understand...
if your religion says you kill cats... and you move to a country that doesn't allow cat killing... guess what? you should move again... not try to sue for the right to kill cats...
it all seems so simple when you don't go fanatic about religion.

[edit on 18-5-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

JJ
Military inteligence contractors needed a way to get inside the detainees heads, they needed to identify effective interogation methods to attack the 'unshakable' faith that allows someone to blow themselves up for a cause.

Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, they were training excercises, experiments if you will. The interogators needed to identify weak spots in the detainees, and one of them is the religious zealotry that defines them. Interogators tried to break down the detainees by affronting their religion, hence the naked piles, no white clothes except for informants, the female approaches, the attack on the holy book, it all fits in a pattern.

I personally don't care if someone flushes a quaran, I'm not a religious person. However, for someone who is deeply religious, witnessing that act might cause pain, enormous stress, and make the person more likely to cooperate, if only to save the book.

The interogators are the octopus, and the detainees are the snail in the bottle.

I make no assumptions about the quaran flushing, except to say that it would fit nicely into the pattern of dehumanization and debasement that interogators are using to break the willpower of the detainees. Regardless of whether a quaran was flushed, I weighed in earlier to make it clear that news organizations are not accountable anymore. They are for entertainment purposes only..like phone psychics.

Ahh, and the infidels went and gave the prison guards training on proper handling of the Koran and even went so far as to get them all gloves for when they have to handle the book. Yet, that doesn't get reported.

Well, obviously it got reported, because you heard about it.

C0le

To those who talk about being fed lies by the meidia well maybe you right we are fed lies by the media, May i suggest to you to make arabic website and tell that to the morons who killed each other in a riot because they blindly believed the media.

I couldn't care less about the ramifications of this story. People acted like yahoos, and they died. They're responsible for their own behavior. It's not Newsweek's fault that men are morons. If people die because they lack adequate skepticism, and cannot exist in a media saturated environment, that is unfortunate for them, and fortunate for me.

Last one standing wins the prize...

FlyersFan:

Oh ... and even if our people did sit, stand, throw, or urinate on
the Quran, so what? It's just a book.

So's the Bible.

The American Flag is just a piece of cloth, too.

I am going to get some monogrammed onto toilet paper, since it's just really a piece of cloth, right? Should be so funny to have it on toilet paper so people can use it after they use the crapper, huh? Isn't that funny? Haha. Why should anyone get upset?

jako

And I would concur with your sentiments, Jakomo.
The problem I see is when the loss of life comes into play, and in this case, this particular alleged Newsweek claim has led to 17+ dead and multitudes wounded.

I have often wondered about the cliche' that "the pen is mightier than the sword." It would appear true in this applied instance and case.





seekerof

Originally posted by Jakomo

FlyersFan:

Oh ... and even if our people did sit, stand, throw, or urinate on
the Quran, so what? It's just a book.

So's the Bible.

The American Flag is just a piece of cloth, too.

I am going to get some monogrammed onto toilet paper, since it's just really a piece of cloth, right? Should be so funny to have it on toilet paper so people can use it after they use the crapper, huh? Isn't that funny? Haha. Why should anyone get upset?

jako

Yes, if you happen to have a lot of american hating friends...it is very funny...
and in this context... not worth hurting or killing you for...
not even worth getting upset over.. because you would be the lamo... not the person hangin it in there yard on a pole.

If we have such severe attachments to "things" then we are weak to people that hold those things over us...
it would also serve to lessen the value of humanity... since many people openly get more upset about a book or flag being burned than concerning themselves over the many injustices that result in death for innocent humans around the world.

Lazarus the Long :

If we have such severe attachments to "things" then we are weak to people that hold those things over us...

It's our nature to have strong attachments to symbols that we identify with. To treat the Koran with disdain can upset MILLIONS of people, and thus shouldn't be done.

The US Flag has hundreds of years of history behind it, the Koran has thousands.

jako

We should throw all bibles of the world in a toilet and flush them. Get rid of religion before it makes anyone else a gullible fool.

Originally posted by Jakomo
I am going to get some monogrammed onto toilet paper, since it's just really a piece of cloth, right? Should be so funny to have it on toilet paper so people can use it after they use the crapper, huh? Isn't that funny? Haha. Why should anyone get upset?

As long as you do it to a Bible it seems to be acceptable. If you did that to the Quaran WW3 would break out it seems.

Hypocrisy

FLUSH TO JUDGMENT
Palestinians used Bible
as toilet paper
Muslims' desecration of holy book received little notice

Posted: May 18, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

While Muslims have responded with deadly outrage to the now-retracted report by Newsweek of alleged Quran desecration by U.S. interrogators, there was little outcry three years ago when Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper.

Catholic priests in the church marking the spot where Jesus was believed to have been born said that during the five-week siege, Palestinians tore up some Bibles for toilet paper and removed many valuable sacramental objects, according to a May 15, 2002, report by the Washington Times.

Newsweek is under fire for a report in its May 9 edition that sparked protests and rioting across the Muslim world resulting in 17 dead, scores injured, relief buildings burned down and a setback to years of coalition-building against terrorists.

Guys this is old news, like I said on another thread, the long and short of it is, Yes We Did...

www.truthout.org...
Uh, people, I hate to tell you this, but the story about Americans abusing the Koran in order to enrage prisoners has been out there for quite some time. The first mention I found of it is March 17, 2004, when the Independent of London interviewed the first British citizen released from Guantanamo Bay. The prisoner said he had been physically beaten but did not consider that as bad as the psychological torture, which he described extensively. Jamal al-Harith, a computer programmer from Manchester, said 70 percent of the inmates had gone on a hunger strike after a guard kicked a copy of the Koran. The strike was ended by force-feeding.

Then came the report, widely covered in American media last December, by the International Red Cross concerning torture at Gitmo. I wrote at the time: "In the name of Jesus Christ Almighty, why are people representing our government, paid by us, writing filth on the Korans of helpless prisoners? Is this American? Is this Christian? What are our moral values? Where are the clergymen on this? Speak up, speak out."

The reports kept coming: Dec. 30, 2004, "Released Moroccan Guantanamo Detainee Tells Islamist Paper of His Ordeal," reported the Financial Times. "They watched you each time you went to the toilet; the American soldiers used to tear up copies of Koran and throw them in the toilet. ..." said the released prisoner.

Thank god it wasn't a copy of the bible or the Talmud, there'd be some real trouble then....

Originally posted by Jakomo
FlyersFan:

Oh ... and even if our people did sit, stand, throw, or urinate on the Quran, so what? It's just a book.

So's the Bible.

Yep. It's just a book and if someone 'over there' used it for toilet
paper (.. they DO use it for toilet paper!), or they burned it, stood
on it, sat on it (all things they have done and continue to do) ... it
wouldn't send me into fits of mental rage, killing and looting.

It's freak'n stupid. They do it ALL THE TIME to the bible .. and there
is no apology, no one is trying to make them stop .. nothing.
DOUBLE STANDARD. I don't care what they do to the bible. I DO
care that the frig'n idiots use a double standard .. 'oh, it's okay for
us to desecrate everyone else's religion and to murder if you don't
convert, but don't you dare sit on our Quran or we will kill you'.

Again - frig'n stupid. It's just a book and there is a double standard.

Originally posted by twitchy
Guys this is old news, like I said on another thread, the long and short of it is, Yes We Did...

www.truthout.org...

So an editorial from a website called Working For Change (truthout linked to the story) is considered fact? I would just like to point out some other "news" stories from Working For Change:

Note to D.C. elites: You are a joke, get a freakin' clue
Look, I don't want to downplay the importance of this filibuster fight - it is a clear example of the GOP trying to usurp power, and the blame for this fight goes squarely on the Republican Party...

A conspiracy theory with legs
Did Bush fix facts to invade Iraq?

Tom Delay's Right Arm
After weeks of haggling, it looks like the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct (also known as the House ethics committee) -- loaded down with Republicans that have received significant support from Rep. Tom DeLay's organizations -- will investigate the House Majority Leader's ethics problems.

Well, I don't know about y'all, but I would want something more to back up an editorial. Apparently that's just me, though.

EDIT: Fixed (I hope) quote tags

[edit on 5-18-2005 by junglejake]