POLITICS: Fox: Mexicans do Work "Not Even Blacks Want to Do"

Originally posted by I See You
Why be pissed? It's obviously the media trying to get a reaction from the people for the story and your falling for it. Thats all this is about. Then they print something up about racism in the country for more stories. Load of crap and people get offended.

Personally I could give a rats-butt about the media or the stupidity of the Fox comment. Just close the border to illegal immigration and I'll be happy! What say you?

Close the border to illegal immigration? Yes. It's discondcerning to see that we allow mexicans to work these jobs for lower rates when we have many able bodied americans (of all races) to do these jobs. Obviously we don't want to work for these low wages and should not have to. The employers for the illegals don't mind cause they don't have to pay these higher rates. Where do we go and what do we do?

Thats the point. Its pure capitalism at work here.

-American business want to make the most profits possible.
-They reduce wages below the poverty line
-No American citizen can survive on those wages and refuse to do the work
-Mexicans earn even less than what American business are willing to pay
-Mexicans illegaly cross the border to do these jobs
-Big business gets its profits
-Mexicans get marginally more money than living in Mexico
-Americans lose jobs

Why not blame the real people responsible for the whole illegal immigrant problem? Its the people who set wages so unconscionably low that are forcing this situation.

If they pay people what they deserve you'd have Americans competing against these illegal immigrants. They wont have the same chances of getting employment so the attraction of moving to a country where they cant get jobs and are treat with that unique brand of American Xenophobia will deter them.

Blame American businesses not Mexicans.

Force American businesses to pay a decent minimum wage and you'll see the whole leaky border issue fix itself.

[edit on 15/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
Thats the point. Its pure capitalism at work here.

-American business want to make the most profits possible.
-They reduce wages below the poverty line
-No American citizen can survive on those wages and refuse to do the work
-Mexicans earn even less than what American business are willing to pay
-Mexicans illegaly cross the border to do these jobs
-Big business gets its profits
-Mexicans get marginally more money than living in Mexico
-Americans lose jobs

Why not blame the real people responsible for the whole illegal immigrant problem? Its the people who set wages so unconscionably low that are forcing this situation.

If they pay people what they deserve you'd have Americans competing against these illegal immigrants. They wont have the same chances of getting employment so the attraction of moving to a country where they cant get jobs and are treat with that unique brand of American Xenophobia will deter them.

Blame American businesses not Mexicans.

Force American businesses to pay a decent minimum wage and you'll see the whole leaky border issue fix itself.

[edit on 15/5/05 by subz]

Subz:
Bingo! could'nt agree more on the capitalism point you are making. Most states and citites don't even enforce the laws they have on the books which would fine employers who employ illlegal immigrants. It's an incidious problem we have, but the very first thing that MUST happen...is the border must be close for an extended period, perhaps two years, until we can get this issue under control.

With regard to the xenophobic issue you mentioned.....I don't think it's xenophobic to request that laws be followed, borders be protected and illegal immigration be stopped! I don't care if the culprits are from Mexico or some swedish babe who does auper (sp) work!

Originally posted by cafeman
With regard to the xenophobic issue you mentioned.....I don't think it's xenophobic to request that laws be followed, borders be protected and illegal immigration be stopped! I don't care if the culprits are from Mexico or some swedish babe who does auper (sp) work!

Au pair

Yeah the Xenophobia I was talking about is not regarding wanting illegal immigration to stop, thats just common sense. Its the xenophobia that pervades American attidues to all foreigners in general that I was saying will deter Mexicans from entering the U.S.A. As well as not being able to get a job.

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by cafeman
With regard to the xenophobic issue you mentioned.....I don't think it's xenophobic to request that laws be followed, borders be protected and illegal immigration be stopped! I don't care if the culprits are from Mexico or some swedish babe who does auper (sp) work!

Au pair

Yeah the Xenophobia I was talking about is not regarding wanting illegal immigration to stop, thats just common sense. Its the xenophobia that pervades American attidues to all foreigners in general that I was saying will deter Mexicans from entering the U.S.A. As well as not being able to get a job.

Subz:
Thanks for the spelling correction!

What Did he Really Mean?

Possibly most people are missing the point, extending the comments into some racial, right verses left paradigm. I think people commenting here have done a good job on the issues.

What he means is that that mexicans are so downtrodden in Mexico, that they will take work at so low a level of pay for work "not even blacks want to do."

Hello? Is everyone here now, it is all about subsidizing union crushing corporate labor, even while they have lowered their tax base. The ordinary American people are paying for everything. Does everyone "get it now," is really about lowering pay, not about "willingness to work?" It is sad that these corporations are cutting the very base of customers that support themselves.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by SkipShipman]

SkipShipman, I dont see what you are getting at.

Fox is asking why Americans are angry at Mexicans filling the holes in American employment? I happen to disagree with him but I can see what he means.

He is asking why Americans think its wrong that Mexicans are doing the work that no other American wants to do. Doesnt the money the Mexicans make feed back into the economy?

How are Americans paying for everything?

Originally posted by SkipShipman
What Did he Really Mean?

What he means is that that mexicans are so downtrodden in Mexico, that they will take work at so low a level of pay for work "not even blacks want to do."

Oh I get it....they are so downtrodden in Mexico because Vincente Fox and his elitist clan of corrupt govenment officials are stealing all the wealth of the Mexican people. Thanks for pointing that out again!

Yeah just like the corrupt and elitist Bush regime is protecting corporate rights to set below poverty line wages. And keep the American public downtrodden.

Originally posted by subz
SkipShipman, I dont see what you are getting at.

Fox is asking why Americans are angry at Mexicans filling the holes in American employment? I happen to disagree with him but I can see what he means.

He is asking why Americans think its wrong that Mexicans are doing the work that no other American wants to do. Doesnt the money the Mexicans make feed back into the economy?

How are Americans paying for everything?

Comment: Of course there is a trickle down effect from Mexican worker spending here in the United States, however American workers have no other country to send their money back to as is the case with illegal immigrants. Ordinary Americans face higher proportiate taxes via the Social Security regressive taxation loophole. US citizens now have fewer rights and more responsibilities as a blowback of cheap labor. Americans are quite willing to work for a living wage, however the value comparison for illegal immigrants is based upon extremely lower wages in Mexico. Illegals do not have the expenses in housing and so forth that domestic Americans have, since they often clump together in migrant camps, or going into one bedroom apartments with many people.

The so called labor shortage is due to the fact that corporations are not paying well enough for the exhorbitant bills that Americans have to pay.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by SkipShipman]

Wages are not the only issue for Vincente Fox to promote illegal immigration.

Imagine if the flow of illegals was abruptly cut off and a rapid repatriation was accomplised by the US government - the result IMO would be a revolution and overthrow of the oligarchy that runs Mexico.

Not to promote illegal immigration introduces a political as well as economic nightmare for Fox.

Until Mexicos birthrate is reduced to reasonable levels its jobs/wages will remain depressed and the US will remain Mexicos pressure relief valve with the US taxpayer/worker footing the bill via higher tax and depressed wages.

Originally posted by Phoenix
Until Mexicos birthrate is reduced to reasonable levels its jobs/wages will remain depressed and the US will remain Mexicos pressure relief valve with the US taxpayer/worker footing the bill via higher tax and depressed wages.

How the Americans pay higher taxes due to illegal immigrants is beyond me. How can illegal immigrants drain social security? How can they get a social security number to claim off it? How can they get free access to medical treatment when American citizens have to pay for what they use any way?

Mexicans are not to blame for depressed wages. Depressed wages are to blame for Mexican immigrants flooding America.

If American companies didnt employee these illegal workers in the first place they wouldnt have any incentive to come to your country. Stop your companies from employing them in the first place and they will stop coming.

[edit on 15/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
Yeah just like the corrupt and elitist Bush regime is protecting corporate rights to set below poverty line wages. And keep the American public downtrodden.

No disagreement on that point! But lets not pretend that Vincente Fox is some sort of Robin Hood!

Originally posted by cafeman

Originally posted by subz
Yeah just like the corrupt and elitist Bush regime is protecting corporate rights to set below poverty line wages. And keep the American public downtrodden.

No disagreement on that point! But lets not pretend that Vincente Fox is some sort of Robin Hood!

Yeah I never meant to give the impression that I agree with Fox's statement. Just was trying to defuse some of the misguided criticism leveled at his speech so that the real issues could be discussed.

The real issues being where the problems cause comes from. American business and the laws surrounding it.

Lets face it, what does the American government have more control over? Mexican citizens and their government? Or American companies and American law?

Why not stop the problem by preventing the reasons why Mexicans illegally enter the country - jobs.

They have a better chance of stopping it by fixing their end of the problem, rather than trying to get Vincente Fox to fix it.

It is really shocking, and appalling, to see how clueless some people are. They just live in their little bubble, trying to see the world through the keyhole of their mind. Blacks are doctors, lawyers, CPAs. Even though you may not think so, blacks can fill all kinds of professional, white collar positions. They are not only qualified for the lowest, most menial positions in the US, as implied by Fox, and then some of the posters.

It's really funny, and sad, to see the ignorant racists scratching their heads, mumbling, "What's so racist? The world 'black'? The word 'the'? I just don't get it. I don't understand the words coming out of Fox's mouth! I'm confused, so I'm going to get angry. I hate minorities, they always mad me feel so stupid and insecure! I miss the '50's when they knew their place!'

Pathetic.

subz

How the Americans pay higher taxes due to illegal immigrants is beyond me. How can illegal immigrants drain social security? How can they get a social security number to claim off it? How can they get free access to medical treatment when American citizens have to pay for what they use any way?

How do Americans pay higher taxes due to illegal immigrants?
A number of ways. 1) Free medical care they receive by using emergency rooms
2) Free public schooling
3) Fraudulent social security claims using false or stolen ss#’s
4) Higher insurance rates for housing, health car due to illegal immigrants not having insurance and not paying for damages caused by them. Hospitals are required to treat / stabilize any patient that enters the ER.
5) Higher interest rates for those illegal immigrants who use stolen identification to ruin someone’s credit.
6) Higher taxes paid to keep those illegals in jail after they have been caught breaking laws.
The list is very long and this just lists a few. I have no problem allowing immigrants into the country to work in the positions that they presently fill. Or even to eventually rise up to the top. As long as they enter the country legally, obey the laws of this land. .

Originally posted by curme
It is really shocking, and appalling, to see how clueless some people are. They just live in their little bubble, trying to see the world through the keyhole of their mind. Blacks are doctors, lawyers, CPAs. Even though you may not think so, blacks can fill all kinds of professional, white collar positions. They are not only qualified for the lowest, most menial positions in the US, as implied by Fox, and then some of the posters.

It's really funny, and sad, to see the ignorant racists scratching their heads, mumbling, "What's so racist? The world 'black'? The word 'the'? I just don't get it. I don't understand the words coming out of Fox's mouth! I'm confused, so I'm going to get angry. I hate minorities, they always mad me feel so stupid and insecure! I miss the '50's when they knew their place!'

Pathetic.

Are you refering to me there?

Would you like to quote where I was being racist?

Racial equality works both ways, not in some kind of reparational and revenge mode where black people can get special treatment and do whatever they want because of how they were treated in the past.

I never said black people are not doctors or CPAs, I said that historically the majority of black people work in these menial jobs. This is because of how they were previously badly treated, lack of education and prospects. You cant sit there and argue with me that the majority of the black population have higher education and are lawyers etc. because that is pure fantasy.

People like you are what further the racist movement by allowing for special treatment for minorities at the expense of true racial equality. People see minorities getting special treatment such as Affirmative Action and rightly take issue with it. In the case of Affirmative Action, why dont they make being POOR grounds for special consideration instead of being black?

Why a poor white kid will have no chance of getting a college education while a poor black kid will is not racial equality.

The only ignorant racist here is you buddy.

kenshiro2012, I dont see a single issue you raised there as not being easily fixed by your own government. If your government was serious about fixing the drain illegal immigrants place on your society they could.

1) Free medical care they receive by using emergency rooms
Get racist, if a person speaks with an accent or looks Mexican ask for proof of I.D if/when a person recovers. If they cannot prove they are a citizen then deport them and ask for recompense from them or the Mexican government.

2) Free public schooling
Legislate the ability to ask for proof of I.D and citzen status for all school applicants. Deny access to the school for those who cannot prove there I.D and citizen status. A no-brainer really.

3) Fraudulent social security claims using false or stolen ss#’s
Fix the social security system so that false or stolen SS# are not an issue. Invest in the social security system to prevent this abuse, which would not just exclusive to illegal immigrants IMO.

4) Higher insurance rates for housing, health car due to illegal immigrants not having insurance and not paying for damages caused by them. Hospitals are required to treat / stabilize any patient that enters the ER.
Insurance rates are not rising for that reason. They are rising due to the unfounded new risks associated with 9/11. Even if they were rising due to those reasons legislating I.D checks before access to the E.R would fix that.

5) Higher interest rates for those illegal immigrants who use stolen identification to ruin someone’s credit.
Again, fix the system so that these abuses, not just from illegals, cant take place.

6) Higher taxes paid to keep those illegals in jail after they have been caught breaking laws.
Deport those criminals. Take them back to Mexico.

These can be remedied by your government if they really wanted to fix this problem. The problem is that they dont suffer from illegal immigrants, in fact they benefit from them. Thats why they wont fix the system.

[edit on 15/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz

How the Americans pay higher taxes due to illegal immigrants is beyond me. How can illegal immigrants drain social security? How can they get a social security number to claim off it? How can they get free access to medical treatment when American citizens have to pay for what they use any way?

Subz, here in the states our hospital emergency rooms (publicly funded) cannot turn anyone away even if they are there to have a cold treated, the taxpayer foots the bill through increased taxs on the hospital distict they live in. Most illegal immigrants have no health insurance and utilize acute care for mundane treatment while the rest of us with so called insurance pay more and more for less and less.

Anyone it seems may obtain a Social Security # or a good enough fake# to obtain most governmental benefits such as food stamps, welfare etc. etc. and of course local and state government do not do much of a job vetting those that do not qualify - besides in some localities as you may have noticed politicians have come to depend on the hispanic vote making any enforcement action unpopular.

Mexicans are not to blame for depressed wages. Depressed wages are to blame for Mexican immigrants flooding America.

Huh?, What?, can you explain your reasoning here, I cannot fathom your logic.

If American companies didnt employee these illegal workers in the first place they wouldnt have any incentive to come to your country. Stop your companies from employing them in the first place and they will stop coming.

In a very simplistic way I can agree that sanctioning employers as is the law is warranted, alas this treats a symtom rather than the root cause which lay more so in Mexicos birthrate which is something like 50% above the world norm devaluing the worth of individual workers in that country. The other major issue at play in my opinion is the continued stranglehold of a controlling Oligarchy that will resist any change in the status quo in Mexican economic advancement, hence my comment about the internal political ramifications were illegal immigration stopped.



[edit on 15/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz

They have a better chance of stopping it by fixing their end of the problem, rather than trying to get Vincente Fox to fix it.

Yes, however when Fox is working in a polar opposite direction with action such as allowing handbooks on how to cross the border illegally, military or para-military groups to fire on our border patrol and citizens without consequence, criticize each and every step that is taken to tighten the border region then yes what he does or does not do becomes relevent and our business.

Corporate America while having a role in the problen is not the entire problem as is being asserted.

Illegal immigration is a many headed hydra that will require change in both countries ultimately,

[edit on 15-5-2005 by Phoenix]