The Mystery of the Insurgency

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it!!!!!

Lest we forget....SADDAM WAS PUT INTO POWER BY THE AMERICANS.

This puppet government will be no diffrerent from the previous one, and the insurgents know this. America places people in power all around the world with the hopes, that they will remain loyal to our "national interest". As shown time and time again, it just does not work.

All the arguments I have heard have basically amounted to "If they want us out then why are they fighting us". They are fighting us because our soldiers are on their soil, acting with impunity. ANY SELF RESPECTING AMERICAN WOULD DO THE EXACT SAME THING IF ANY SOLDIERS OF ANY NATION WERE ON OUR SOIL!

If Iraq would really be better under American guidance then why was it that we needed to go depose the last leader we put there?

As for the insurgency targetting "civillians". That has been a popular tactic amongst freedom fighters for as long as time itself. If one collaborates with the enemy then they are traitors. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" works both ways. The friend of mine enemy is also mine enemy.

Perhaps the insurgency has put forth no "leader" because they would automatically be deemed a "terrorist" by western powers, and would soon thereafter have a deck of cards named after them.

All I know is, if foreign fighters were in my town, and people in my town were helping them to destroy fellow countrymen, and rat on their neighbors .......Then they would be considered fair game......and rightfully so.

Originally posted by Oblivions void
drogo do you really think that the baath/saddam insurgents or the religous/taliban like insurgents are really going to offer a more freedom and a better life than the american puppet government would? like I said before we know what went on in iraq when saddam was in power (yo gotta be a complete BLANKING Idiot to think that was an ideal situation) and we know how the taliban ran afghanistan. Even been an american puppet they would have greater freedom than the vast majority of the middle east. The only real damage being cause in iraq now is a direct result of the insurgency.

actualy lets consider for a minute exactly what we knew. where did this information come from? is there the possibility it was just more propiganda? i am being quite serious right now with thease questions. what in fact do we realy know? just take this whole thing about the flushing of a quran(sorry spelling.). first we are presented with a suposiod truth. then things go bad. now we are being told that it was possibly not even done. what are we to believe? was the story in fact true but since it had negitive concequenses that we are just being told that it may not have happened? is the story totaly falsehood? is the premis of desicration in fact true but mabe the actual way of desicrateing it wrong? WE DO NOT KNOW AT ALL. ok just based on that what other possible garbage have we heard? what facts do we have i mean real solid proof and not just what we have learned through the press? what LIES have we been exposed to?

based on the rather limmited information i have acess to I would prefer to live where i am now but even it is not perfect, without all the freedom that I should have. to say that this is more freedom than i would have under some of thoe rulers is a falicy that could be based on non truth. who am i to decide for those people what is right for them? so far we have not been able to come up with a perfect government for everyone. sure we have all been TOLD about all the bad things that suposidly happened under sadam, but what do we realy KNOW about it? i will also remind you that sadam himself was put in place by the american government. so seeing how that turned out how can we gurentee that this one will be any better?

as for "The only real damage being cause in iraq now is a direct result of the insurgency". NOPE, WRONG, both sides are causeing damage. and lets be honest about it, the us caused it to happen in the first place. action=reaction. the "insurgancy" is the reaction, to the action of the us and alies invadeing under false pretenses.

Let’s get pass the right and wrong argument, because anybody with half a brain would know that anybody who is willing to die for something thinks he is right.

you are apsolutely correct in this statement. that was a point that i was makeing myself.

Bypass for a second if you can your obvious bias against America

nice assumption there by the way. i am not biased against the states. just because i am against this war or some of the decisions handed down by the government recently..do not presume to know what i feel towards it. you have just shown your "obvious bias" towards those who feel that these things are wrong. many people who actualy know me would be highly amused by the thought that i am anti-usa.

ask yourself under whom would Iraqis have a better future (not Ideal or Perfect mind you), or let’s put it this way who you really want to live under, a psychopath like saddam and his sons, a Taliban type government or a puppet US government who would just be giving them an extra sweet deal on Oil and fork over some space for some military bases to intimidate their neighbors mostly who don’t particular like Iraq to begin with and would have not qualms about attacking it. So come on get off your anti-American horse for a second and honestly think, do you think that a puppet US government is worse than a Taliban-style or a psychotic dictatorship with a systematic torture and death squads.

interesting question to ask. since i do not live there i am realy not qualified to answer that. i know the answer that you seem to want though. guess what i am sure many would choose one of the non- us puppet government options. that would be up to THEM.and that is part of the problem, this CHOICE has been forced upon them, in fact it realy was no choice. also as i previously stated how do we KNOW it was that bad? we don't know for certain. it has become clear that what we recieve may be more proppiganda than truth.

I mean look at germany and japan, they should lived and matured in a complete hell hole thanks to American occupation, 2 of the richest and most industrialized nations in the world I would frankly prefer to live in either of those countries the way things are going here.

well you can always move if you want. why should they have been compleate hellholes? do not forget that that is a major reason for gemany letting hittler in power as well as one of the main reasons that germany went to war again.

Like I said the whole selective name calling (terrorist/name calling) irks me a lot, I for one don’t need the added FALSE justifications of name calling to agree or disagree, it’s quite shallow if you simply go by whatever labels the powers that be choose to imposed on something. So like I asked before, do you honestly believe that saddam or the religious zealots are going to honestly offer the Iraqi people a better way of life than what the US would bring, I mean saddam has killed hundreds of thousand more Iraqi than the Americans, the insurgency is on the way to surpassing the death toll from all American operations in Iraq and their collateral damage the way they are going.

well once again you are trusting sources that are proveing that they should not be trusted for your info. in all honesty i am not sure which would end up being the lesser of two evils when it comes to the iraqi government that should be in place. however the iraqi people should have had that option for themselves without the interferance of a more powerfull country invadeing to impose their will on the iraqi peoples. and that is the real travisty here. that is what has caused the currant situation today. where were these insurgants before? oh ya they had no reason to exist yet.

omg, I refuse to believe people are this stupid. I refuse. This is all a joke. Yeah, that's it. Ha ha. See, I'm laughing.


But in the extremely slim chance people are serious...

drago, I'll let you wallow in your ignorance for a while. It might be good for you.

I'll go to this instead.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Lest we forget....SADDAM WAS PUT INTO POWER BY THE AMERICANS.

Please, I'm begging you. Just read/know a little bit of history before posting. Just the tiniest bit would have helped you in this case. America had nothing to do with Saddam coming into power. People like you are so quick to blame America for stuff they forget the facts.
We supported Saddam when he fought against Iran. He was already in power then. If you knew any history you would have known that.

This puppet government will be no diffrerent from the previous one, and the insurgents know this.

wtf?
How was Saddam's reign a puppet one? lol
Read a book dude.

And how do you know this government will turn out to be a dictatorship? Like all new democracies, this one will go through growing pains, but how do you know it'll fail?
Better question: Why do you want it to fail?

America places people in power all around the world with the hopes, that they will remain loyal to our "national interest". As shown time and time again, it just does not work.

Examples would be?

All the arguments I have heard have basically amounted to "If they want us out then why are they fighting us". They are fighting us because our soldiers are on their soil, acting with impunity.

You truely have no clue to what you're talking about.

ANY SELF RESPECTING AMERICAN WOULD DO THE EXACT SAME THING IF ANY SOLDIERS OF ANY NATION WERE ON OUR SOIL!

Speak for yourself.
The Americans among us who are civilized would fight against the invaders themselves and the people helping them, not innocent bystanders minding their own business. You and drago are idiots if you think the people these insurgents are blowing up should be considered collaborators if they're not helping the insurgency. 98% (putting it low) of these people are doing the same things they were doing before we arrived. Why weren't they considered enemies of the state then?

As for the insurgency targetting "civillians". That has been a popular tactic amongst freedom fighters for as long as time itself.

Give examples.
Give examples where it has worked? It has never in history worked before so why do you feel it would work now?

All I know is, if foreign fighters were in my town, and people in my town were helping them to destroy fellow countrymen, and rat on their neighbors .......Then they would be considered fair game......and rightfully so.

Ture, too bad for you we aren't doing that. We're helping rebuild the country and establish order.


You people (unwisely) bringing up past stuff like WW2 and the American Indians fail to realize they were really fighting for their survival. These insurgents are not. No one would even know who they were if they didn't blow themselves up. They aren't in any danger. If you lined up 100 Iraqis, two were insurgents can you pick out which ones were the insurgents? No.
It's all a twisted mindset.

Do you honestly believe that these insurgents believe that if they kill enough people we will leave? Tell me, do you honestly believe they believe that?
Do you honestly believe they don't know that by doing what they're doing they're making things worse and the country less free?
Do you honestly believe that they don't know if they continue and increase MORE foriegn troops would come instead of less?
Do you believe the insurgents really that stupid?
Maybe they are.

Or many they just don't care.

Either way these morons (and yes, any one who goes around randomly killing innocent people are less than human) aren't fighting for anyone's freedom.

Drago, aka Hagel look up a word called moral relativism.

"Supposedly" Saddam did bad things? For this to happen you have to put the American media on the same level of Russian and Saudi media in terms of propaganda. Oh yeah forget about Woodward and Bernstein, and the growing trend of the press to jump on every mistake Bush has made.

Don't you think an Iraqi reporter would jump over this story in an instant? A story about the US govt. bringing Sadaam to power and then falsifying crimes against humanity would make someone a multi millionaire overnight. You would see books, movies, everything.

Look how people are crawling over one another about WMDs falsehood. Richard Clarke anyone??? Look how they ignore the uranium Niger imports.




Okay, and one last thing. Everyone here that is justifying the Iraqi insurgency, do you justify the insurgency that went on in the US during reconstruction? If you do, then you support:
1. The beheading of Civil War Vetereans that fought to free the slaves.
2. The formation of the Klu Klux Klan.
3. The burning alive of innocent men, women and children.
4. A genocide of blacks just because of their skin color.

And let's not forget the Nazi insurgency against the Russians in Berlin. Seig Heil, my werewolves indeed!

Hey, occupying army, right? Doesn't matter what they fought for. As long as they are occupying, the insurgency is always right!

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Please, I'm begging you. Just read/know a little bit of history before posting. Just the tiniest bit would have helped you in this case. America had nothing to do with Saddam coming into power. People like you are so quick to blame America for stuff they forget the facts.
We supported Saddam when he fought against Iran. He was already in power then. If you knew any history you would have known that.

No sir if you knew any history you would know the CIA's involvement in the empowering of the Baathist Party. Perhaps you should try to read some more books.
www.hartford-hwp.com...
www.geocities.com...

How was Saddam's reign a puppet one? lol
Read a book dude.

This is really too easy..........As long as Saddam Kept oil prices in U.S dollars, and bought Chem weapons, and Gassed the Iranians, etc, etc, He was alright. Do you even know that he was Considering converting his price of oil to Euros? Once again , please go read some more books.
www.globalresearch.ca...

And how do you know this government will turn out to be a dictatorship? Like all new democracies, this one will go through growing pains, but how do you know it'll fail?

Are you soo Naive to honestly believe this is a democracy? We have leveled almost all but Baghdad. You are silly..
www.dahrjamailiraq.com...

Better question: Why do you want it to fail?

I want Americas Suicidal plans of Global domination to fail.
www.newamericancentury.org...
www.newamericancentury.org...

Examples would be?

You really make this too easy.

PHILIPPINES/l898-1910(-?)/Naval, troops/Seized from Spain, U.S. troops kill 600,000 Filipinos.

CUBA/l898-1902(-?)/Naval, troops/Seized from Spain, U.S. still illegally holds Navy base there over Cuban objections.

PANAMA/1901-03(-?)/Naval, troops/Broke off from Colombia in a U.S. organized 'rebellion', U.S. annexes Canal Zone.

HONDURAS/l903/Troops/U.S. Marines intervene in revolution.

DOMINICAN REP./1903-04/Troops/U.S. business interests protected in Revolution.

KOREA/1904-05/Troops/U.S. Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.

CUBA/1906-09/Troops/U.S. Marines land in democratic election.

NICARAGUA/1907/Troops/"Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate (psuedo- colony) set up.

HONDURAS/l907/Troops/U.S. Marines land during war with Nicaragua.

PANAMA/l908/Troops/U.S. Marines intervene in election contest.

NICARAGUA/l9l0/Troops/U.S. Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.

HONDURAS/1911/Troops/U.S. business interests protected in civil war.

CHINA/1911-41/Naval, troops/Continuous occupation with flare-ups

CUBA/1912/Troops/U.S. business interests protected in Havana.

PANAMA/l9l2/Troops/U.S. Marines land during heated election.

HONDURAS/l9l2/Troops/Marines protect U.S. economic interests.

NICARAGUA/1912-33/Troops, bombing/20-year occupation, fought guerrillas.

MEXICO/l9l3/Naval/Americans evacuated during revolution.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC/1914/Naval/Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.

MEXICO/1914-18/Naval, troops/Series of interventions against Mexican nationalists.

HAITI/1914-34/Troops, bombing/19-year occupation after revolts.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC/1916-24/Troops/8-year U.S. Marine occupation.

CUBA/1917-33/Troops/Military occupation, U.S. declares Cuba an economic protectorate (psuedo-colony).

USSR/1918-22/Naval, troops/Five landings to fight Bolsheviks in effort to overthrow the fledgling socialist government.

PANAMA/1918-20/Troops/"Police duty" during unrest after elections.

HONDURAS/l9l9/Troops/U.S. Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA/1920/Troops/2-week intervention against unionists.

TURKEY/1922/Troops/U.S. fought nationalists in Smyrna.

CHINA/1922-27/Naval, troops/Deployment during nationalist revolt.

HONDURAS/1924-25/Troops/Landed twice during election strife.

PANAMA/1925/Troops/U.S. Marines suppress general strike.

CHINA/l928-34/Troops/U.S. Marines stationed throughout the country.

EL SALVADOR/l932/Naval/Warships sent during Marti revolt.

KOREA/l951-53(-?)/Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats/U.S.& South Korea fight China & North Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in l950, and against China in l953. China accuses U.S. of biological warfare. Still have bases.

IRAN/l953/Covert/CIA overthrows democratically elected socialist premier, installs Shah as dictator.

GUATEMALA/l954/Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat/CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalizes U.S. companies' lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.

LEBANON/l958/Troops, naval/U.S. Marine occupation against rebels.

PANAMA/1958/Troops/Flag protests erupt into confrontation.

VIETNAM/l960-75/Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats/Fought South Vietnamese revolt & North Vietnam during the Vietnamese civil war; over two million Vietnamese casualties in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.

LAOS/1961/Covert/Military buildup during guerrilla war.

CUBA/l961/Covert/CIA-directed exile invasion fails.

PANAMA/l964/Troops/Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.

INDONESIA/l965/Covert/One million-plus killed in CIA-assisted army coup. CIA provides assassination lists to military, plus weapons.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC/1965-66/Troops, bombing/U.S. Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA/l966-67/Covert/Green Berets intervene against rebels.

CAMBODIA/l969-75/Bombing, troops, naval/Up to 2 million killed in decade during/after U.S. invasion of Cambodia and bombing, starvation, and political chaos.

OMAN/l970/Covert/U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion to intervene in Omani civil war.

LAOS/l971-73/Command operation, bombing/U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.

CHILE/1973/Covert/CIA funds and backs coup ousts democratically-elected Marxist president and installs brutal military dictatorship.

CAMBODIA/l975/Troops, bombing/Intervenes to seize captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.

IRAN/l980/Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing/Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.

LIBYA/l981/Naval jets/Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.

EL SALVADOR/l981-?/Covert/U.S. mercenaries, military advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war.

NICARAGUA/l981-90/Covert, naval/CIA funds, trains, equips and directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.

HONDURAS/l982-?/Troops/Maneuvers, help build bases near borders to intimidate Nicaragua.

LEBANON/l982-84/Naval, bombing, troops/Marines expel PLO and back Christian Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions.

GRENADA/l983-84/Troops, bombing/Invasion four years after socialist revolution. U.S. installs puppet government.

LIBYA/l986/Bombing, naval/Air strikes try to topple nationalist gov't.

BOLIVIA/1987/Troops/Coast Guard and Army assists raids on coc aine region.

IRAN/l987-88/Naval, bombing/US intervenes on side of Iraq in Gulf War.

LIBYA/1989/Naval jets/Two Libyan jets shot down.

PANAMA/1989-?/Troops, bombing/Nationalist government ousted by invasion. U.S. installs puppet government and refuses to hold new elections.

LIBERIA/1990-?/Troops/Foreigners evacuated during civil war; troops protect CIA communications/listening post.

SAUDI ARABIA/1990-?/Troops, jets/Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. Forces also in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.

IRAQ/1990-?/Naval, bombing, troops/Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.

KUWAIT/1991-?/Naval, bombing, troops/Attacks on Iraqi military; effort to return dictatorial royal family to throne.
From William Blum-Rogue Nation.

Is that enough for you smart @ss? Once again try reading some more books.

The Americans among us who are civilized would fight against the invaders themselves and the people helping them, not innocent bystanders minding their own business. You and drago are idiots if you think the people these insurgents are blowing up should be considered collaborators if they're not helping the insurgency. 98% (putting it low) of these people are doing the same things they were doing before we arrived. Why weren't they considered enemies of the state then?

You have obviously never been to a war Zone. And no the Insurgents were not doing this before we arrived. The streets of Iraq only feared Saddam, not Total annihilation.

Give examples.
Give examples where it has worked? It has never in history worked before so why do you feel it would work now?

French, Russian, American,(revolutions) .........the illegal state of israel.

Ture, too bad for you we aren't doing that. We're helping rebuild the country and establish order.

Too bad you truly are clueless. Stop watching Fox. Once again
www.dahrjamailiraq.com...

No one would even know who they were if they didn't blow themselves up. They aren't in any danger. If you lined up 100 Iraqis, two were insurgents can you pick out which ones were the insurgents? No.
It's all a twisted mindset.

You are assuming that all the bombings are suicide bombing, when in fact they are not. There is guirella warfare going on.

Do you honestly believe that these insurgents believe that if they kill enough people we will leave? Tell me, do you honestly believe they believe that?
Do you honestly believe they don't know that by doing what they're doing they're making things worse and the country less free?
Do you honestly believe that they don't know if they continue and increase MORE foriegn troops would come instead of less?
Do you believe the insurgents really that stupid?
Maybe they are.

Or many they just don't care.

Either way these morons (and yes, any one who goes around randomly killing innocent people are less than human) aren't fighting for anyone's freedom.

What you fail to realize is the fact that America is there to stay and they know it!! We are building permanent military installations around the country. Whilst the remainder is being levelled. They ARE fighting for their survival, as the rest of the middle east is beginning to realize as well.


[edit twice on 16-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

[edit on 16-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

As was stated above saddam was already in power when the US backed him, the US has rarely gone in and completely taken down a government to build it back up. It's mostly countries like Egypt, Noriega in panama and several other examples where it is calculated to be more cost efficient to go with what ever brute is in power or a close opposition to the powers that be and go into co-operation with these factions as long as it's feasible and they don’t go against our interest. But we have never gone in all out with our own blood and sweet and destroyed whatever system was there to the last pebble and build it back up with our own $$$.

I brought up Japan and germany because these are the only countries whose situation can really be compared to iraq, we went in and destroy and remade every remnant of that country and the continued need/interest in these countries to keep it on track and not let it slip into a hellhole. They had done the same thing in Hispaniola (Dominican rep./Haiti) in the early 1900s but there wasn’t enough interest for them to keep too much of an eye on them after the initial governments were installed with all the oil in Iraq and the interest of having a relatively calm and stable middle east will guaranteed that we would spend countless billions and god knows how many lives making sure that Iraq is stabilized. The us took over my parent’s country in the 1910s and stayed there for about 9 years and set up a government, this government stay in partnership with the US into it’s leader (Trujillo) got it into his head to seize American Interest in the country for himself and so the US set up contacts with the opposition and gave them the extra push they needed to get rid of him. This is what the US did through out the cold war, they made alliances with certain factions in key places of the cold war and went into partnership with the government this factions created. But we didn’t go in and do everything from scratch and had any real interest besides it not going to the Russians/communist to take a real interest stabilizing these countries beyond the token Democratic/capitalist spin on whatever they choose to do with their country and population. The war in Iraq is first and foremost about Oil, our interest in the Iraqi oil would dictate that we would want a stable country behind that oil, which is why I would have just helped a more cooperative Iraqi faction just take over instead of trying to build up the country from scratch. But hey at least it’s better than what the US did during the cold war, and trust me I had family suffer and live under the factions the US chose to back in my parents country and directly contributed to them moving here. Like I said we have never had the Economic/regional interest like we have with Iraq in any previous endeavor short of the Panama Canal to stick around and make sure that it all goes right, And we have not spent this much into something short of Vietnam and WW2. I didn’t agree with the decision to go there, if they were dead set with doing something in Iraq they should have just eliminated Saddam and set up shop with a more favorable faction, but if we are going to go all out, let’s at least try to build something that might spread through out the middle east stabilize/improve it a bit more than it is now.

As far as the whole media angle you put forth, it’s not only American media reporting on saddams Iraq, there is plenty of foreign (even other Islamic media) who had reported on what happened in Iraq. American soldiers didn’t go and gassed the Kurds, and saddam left plenty of videotaped evidence of what they had done. I’ll give you this much, they didn’t want saddam there, but that doesn’t mean they want us there either. But I didn’t agree with going there (wasn’t worth regardless of the oil), but hey if it works Iraq might flourish just like Japan and Germany did before them and it might spread through out the middle east and we would not have to side with the despots we are backing now. And come on , you would have to be pretty far gone to honestly think that saddam was running a utopia here, we may have pounced on certain events for our advantage, but come on the guy and his sons were complete psychopaths. I mean we had Kuwaitis, Saudi intelligence on him, heck even the Iranians had issues with him. But like I said just because they didn’t want him there doesn’t mean that they want us there, but American troops get little to no say in where they are sent and that’s who I’m backing in this fight.

Phoenixhasrisin

I’ll give you this, I wouldn’t put limits on the limits on the depths I would go to in all out war, but I know this, I’m 95% percent sure that I would not target a church/mosque, schools and markets when there are plenty of government/military facilities to target, I would see more advantage to targeting hospitals than religious establishments and places with small populations of military/police or government workers. If it was a church full of military/police and government officials I would target it if I was in their position but this has rarely been the case in Iraq. Like I said before US/coalitions forces and employees as well as Iraqi government, police and military are fair game as far as I’m concern

Saddam was put as vice-president by the then president of Iraq al-bakr...latter on Saddam decided it was time for him to be the president and he became president of Iraq.

Anyways, what else is new...another couch potato communist wannabe trying to blame the US for everything that happens in the world.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Oblivions void
As was stated above saddam was already in power when the US backed him, the US has rarely gone in and completely taken down a government to build it back up.

No but we routinely take out the leaders, and replace them. The USA was involved in Iraq LONG before the Iranian War. Check some history, not trying to be rude.

In 1959, there was a failed assassination attempt on Qasim. The failed assassin was none other than a young Saddam Hussein. In 1963, a CIA-organized coup did successfully assassinate Qasim and Saddam's Ba'ath Party came to power for the first time. Saddam returned from exile in Egypt and took up the key post as head of Iraq's secret service. The CIA then provided the new pliant, Iraqi regime with the names of thousands of communists, and other leftist activists and organizers. Thousands of these supporters of Qasim and his policies were soon dead in a rampage of mass murder carried out by the CIA's close friends in Iraq.
www.hartford-hwp.com...

And yes innocents die, it is a horrible thing. But that is what war is. Anyone who has ever been in a war knows this. War brings out the worst in humans, no matter what side you are on.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

[edit on 16-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Hey, void. Take my advice. Don't waste your time. He is using geocities and al Jazeera sites as references, then goes down and says "Don't listen to Fox News.'

I think he's a madman.

Plus you're an atheist. Life's to short to be running into a brick wall. You'll never convince him. He said the US is a state of Israel!!!

You've only got the great vast yawning awaiting you. Find some a cold beer and warm pu!CENSORED! (they hate it when I bypass their little puny programs:lol

Originally posted by Muaddib
Saddam was put as vice-president by the then president of Iraq al-bakr...latter on Saddam decided it was time for him to be the president and he became president of Iraq.

Anyways, what else is new...another communist wannabe trying to blame the US for everything that happens i the world.

What's wrong can't dispute the facts so you resort to name calling? I never said I was communist either. You should not assume.

And yes the USA has had their hands dirty for a while now. They do not create all problems but they do create more than their fair share.

Originally posted by lukethedrifter
He said the US is a state of Israel!!!

Where did I ever say such a thing?

Where did I use an Aljazeera link?

All the links, if you had an attention span to read would prove to be worthwile.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

French, Russian, American, .........the illegal state of israel.

Up above in that rambling post. Have you considered comitting yourself to an asylum?

[edit on 16-5-2005 by lukethedrifter]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

What's wrong can't dispute the facts so you resort to name calling? I never said I was communist either. You should not assume.

And yes the USA has had their hands dirty for a while now. They do not create all problems but they do create more than their fair share.

Oh, so it wasn't you who said in another thread that you have communist ideas and you were backing communism proclaiming that communist regimes have not been true to communism?.....

Many countries in the world create problems, the US is not the first or only country who has hired oppossition forces to fight against regimes that are enemies of the US and have attacked in many ways the US.

I just find it hilarious how people like yourself just keep attacking the US for whatever agenda you have in mind...

Anyways, where are you from?

Originally posted by lukethedrifter
French, Russian, American, .........the illegal state of israel.

Up above in that rambling post. Have you considered comitting yourself to an asylum?

[edit on 16-5-2005 by lukethedrifter]

I said Illegal state of Israel. Not a state of the US, or vice-versa.

Have you ever considered trying to read?

Some of you may be in need of refreshing and re-orienting yourselves with these?
Terms And Conditions Of Use

Vulgarity and The Automatic ATS Censors

IMHO, some of you need to step back, take a few breaths and read the above links, before some of you pass a point that will require further measures to be taken by the staff.

Thank you.



seekerof

Originally posted by Muaddib

Oh, so it wasn't you who said in another thread that you have communist ideas and you were backing communism proclaiming that communist regimes have not been true to communism?.....

I am the one who said Anarchism, and communism have similar aspects, which they do. As for backing communism, yes I do ascribe to some of the tenets of the ideology.

I just find it hilarious how people like yourself just keep attacking the US for whatever agenda you have in mind...
Anyways, where are you from?

I find it funny how some are completely un-aware of how the USA has meddled in the affairs of soverign nations for quite some time now.

Oh , I am from Earth.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

yeah you're right. Sorry if I offended anyone. Just trying to be funny in my own way.

If it helps this behavior got me more detentions in my high school than anyone else. I just can't help being a smart ...

Oh man I almost did it again.