Idiot Christians

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
How interesting that a Christian would say this. Does anyone else find this kind of ironic?

So you're trying to tell me that the whole Christian faith is based on facts and not dictated by the masses? And what facts excactly are you referring to?...I hope you dont mean the ones in the bible.

Err Jesus walked on water thats a fact. If thats not enough click the miracle in my signature.

[edit on 5/19/2005 by Croat56]

The reason that so many who call themselves Christian get treated like idiots is because so many of them act like idiots.

Too many people want to answer posts with scripture instead of saying what they really think or believe. The problem is that the Bible is a guide for Christians on how to live their lives. It has nothing to do with non-belivers. The exception of couse is the part of how God loved you so much that he sent his Son to pay the ultimate penalty for sin so you don't have to.

If a non-beliver choses to discard this then there is nothing else of value for them in the Bible. Continual scriptue quoting just turns alot of people off. The information is out there for those who are interested. Let people have their own opinion, whether you agree or not. If God wants them, He knows where they are and how to convince them better than you or I.

DISCLAIMER: The word "you" is not meant to any of the poster specifically. It is just a generic you.



[edit on 5/19/2005 by darkelf]

Originally posted by darkelf
Too many people want to answer posts with scripture instead of saying what they really think or believe.

What if they believe in the scripture?

Originally posted by junglejake
The intelligent design theory does not depend on evolution to work. Intelligent design can apply to the young earth creation example, too.

Yes but including it does not void it.

There is evidence backing up the young earth model, too. However, this evidence is generally ignored by the armchair scientist because there is no explanation for it that fits within current evolutionary theories.

What evidence for a young earth [and for the 'holes' in evolution]? Please don't present it via 'answering genesis' either.. if there indeed is evidence you should be able to find a scientific source with no religious connections.

Originally posted by Croat56

Originally posted by darkelf
Too many people want to answer posts with scripture instead of saying what they really think or believe.

What if they believe in the scripture?

Using scripture to back up your belief is not the issue. Quoting scripture (especially without stating which version you are using) without giving your opinion is the issue.

If I want to see what the Bible has to say about a subject, I'll look it up. If I want to know what you think about a subject, I'll post the question. It is your opinions and beliefs that I am interested in. By all means, feel free to back them up with whatever sources you like. Just don't limit your post to quoting your source.

A discussion of your interpretation of that scripture can be more enlightening than the scripture alone.

scripture interprets itself pretty much, no?
I know there are a few places but the lie that everyone can have their own meaning and all are right is just that. A lie.
You may as well say that all religions are after the same god.

What evidence for a young earth [and for the 'holes' in evolution]? Please don't present it via 'answering genesis' either.. if there indeed is evidence you should be able to find a scientific source with no religious connections.

So if AiG says that 1+1=2, it is wrong?

What you really mean is that you want him to goto someone who supports that cult of darwinism to get the same lies that you have been fed.
You claim to be a thinker, and scientific. Science does not discriminate. It takes all the evidence and examines it.
So do that
Examine it
Have JungleJake open a thread with his first peice of information to examine.
I'd like to follow that

Originally posted by jake1997
scripture interprets itself pretty much, no?
I know there are a few places but the lie that everyone can have their own meaning and all are right is just that. A lie.
You may as well say that all religions are after the same god.

No Jake, that is not what I am saying. I appologize since apparently I am not making myself clear. All interpretations of scripture are not right. But at least by your explanation of that scripture I can tell if we are on the same page or not.

Along with being dyslexic and learning disabled, I have no psychic abilities so I have to rely on what you think the scripture says. Then I can enlighten you or you can enlighten me. I will never tell you that you are wrong. I may question or challenge your views but I cannot do either until you express those views.

Originally posted by jake1997
So if AiG says that 1+1=2, it is wrong?

No.. but there is a likelyhood that that site would insist that 3+4=2 depending on whether the bible says so or not.

What you really mean is that you want him to goto someone who supports that cult of darwinism to get the same lies that you have been fed.

Jake,
Do not tell me what I 'really mean'.. or what I have been 'fed'. I am growing tired of your judgements on how I have been raised/corrupted or what I am really thinking.. it's rude not to mention irritating as the only basis for your assumptions about my life is limited to what I post.

Now, if there is indeed scientific proof [holes in evolution/proof of 'young earth' that can dissprove an already scientifically proven earth of 5 billion years old]- there should by rights be an objective source which has recorded it.. AiG is NOT objective and is therefore unreliable.

You claim to be a thinker, and scientific. Science does not discriminate.

And it is not bias to scipture either

It takes all the evidence and examines it.
So do that
Examine it
Have JungleJake open a thread with his first peice of information to examine.
I'd like to follow that

I'm happy to examine the evidence.. just so long as it is from an objective source and not a religious one. I have gone through AiG [and a couple of others] thoroughly and found alot of false 'facts' twisted and tarted up with lots of big words.. the site has no scientific credibility whatsoever.

Riley,

Remember my post on the previous page..public schools..morality etc etc...politics particulary. What is the religion working in politics...what is the name of it..not the public face but the actual religion/moral system working here in politics.??
Remember what I said...politics funds public schools...what religion do you think they are teaching in pubic schools. What morality???
This doesnt need alot of clarification ...they are deliberately breeding and going out of their way to breed Christians in public schools. Yes?????!!! Riley you need to think before you make statements like that. Do you know what Salt is??? Now ..care to prove that they are breeding Christians in public schools????
If you can't what are they breeding..I can tell you one thing they are definitely breeding ...the next generation of "consumers" better than the last.!!
Remember what they are teaching in some public schools in America. Islam!!! Anything and I mean ..anything but Christianity.. Why is that Riley????? Seperation???? Who is funding this...Politics??? What religion is this...Riley??? The political one funding this Islamic studies..I mean???
Is this confusion...what is this morality??? The morality of Politics????

Dont worry ..Im not going to spout bible verses..that is something I seldome do in these forums unless it is to other Christians. Its a waste of time with unbelievers..they are not intrested.

the statement concerning...the stigma with creationism because it is not a science...I agree..it is not a science...it is Faith. The two are not directly compatable. This goes to demonstrate my point also earlier...that to many science is thier religion ..they cannot work outside this religion...and show scorn to anyone who can...especially if they dont think it is scientific. And science is a religion to some..this is clear in many of these posts. They have great faith in Science.

I agree with what BaastetNoir posts when they state about some trying to humiliate anyone who follows the Christian Faith. It takes a devout religious belief system to do this.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Orangetom,

Shouldn't you be more concerned about kids learning how to use grammar properly?

Orangetom????!!!! Well Orangetom????????!!!!!!!! Is this annoying Orangtom????????!!!!!!!

:shk:

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Riley,

Dont worry ..Im not going to spout bible verses..that is something I seldome do in these forums unless it is to other Christians. Its a waste of time with unbelievers..they are not intrested.


Thanks,
Orangetom

Ahah! Somebody gets it!

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
How interesting that a Christian would say this. Does anyone else find this kind of ironic?

I had a smile on my face 'cause I knew what was going to be coming when I typed that, anyway.

So you're trying to tell me that the whole Christian faith is based on facts and not dictated by the masses? And what facts excactly are you referring to?...I hope you dont mean the ones in the bible.

Australia is notorious for having geologic and biologic mysteries evolution doesn't have the ability to explain away so they just ignore them. I had an extensive list in one of the old evo debates.

Originally posted by darkelf
The reason that so many who call themselves Christian get treated like idiots is because so many of them act like idiots.

Too many people want to answer posts with scripture instead of saying what they really think or believe.

And what if that scripture they respond with expresses what they think or believe better than they could with their own words? I know there are times when I'll quote a song to express myself. This isn't because I'm hiding what I really think or believe. It's because those lyrics express so closely how I think or believe.

If a non-beliver choses to discard this then there is nothing else of value for them in the Bible.

That's not entirely true. The Bible has been recognised as a historical reference for archiologists and historians alike. A lot of new agers also like to take the lessons of Jesus and try to apply them to their lives without believing in the divinity of Christ. There is a lot of value in the Bible, even if you're not a believer. There's the story of an entire culture found within its pages.

Let people have their own opinion, whether you agree or not.

On this, I agree. However, I will also excersize the right to express mine, too.

As to finding a source outside of any group with religious undertones talking about some of the evidence I'm refering to, it's frickin' hard. Googling anything involving fallacy of evolution is met with a lot of religious scientific organizations. Sadly, without knowing anything about the individual groups you've already decided they have false information and are not credible. I do think it is a shame that someone would dismiss scientific work only because the scientist practices religion, but that's your perogative. Every once in a while I stumble upon a seemingly secular site that actually discusses the evidence against creation, including the metamorphic rock in Australia which had wood pulp in its center and the playtapus. For the most part, though, "credible" sources won't even talk about them. If I stumble across a site which you approve of, I'll pass along the link.

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by darkelf
The reason that so many who call themselves Christian get treated like idiots is because so many of them act like idiots.

Too many people want to answer posts with scripture instead of saying what they really think or believe.

And what if that scripture they respond with expresses what they think or believe better than they could with their own words? I know there are times when I'll quote a song to express myself. This isn't because I'm hiding what I really think or believe. It's because those lyrics express so closely how I think or believe.

There are so many different religions calling themselves Christian nowadays that I can no longer assume that you believe a scripture to mean the same thing that I believe. Yes some scriptures state it better than we can. But many things that seem self evident to you or me may be confusing to someone else.

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by darkelf

If a non-beliver choses to discard this then there is nothing else of value for them in the Bible.

That's not entirely true. The Bible has been recognised as a historical reference for archiologists and historians alike. A lot of new agers also like to take the lessons of Jesus and try to apply them to their lives without believing in the divinity of Christ. There is a lot of value in the Bible, even if you're not a believer. There's the story of an entire culture found within its pages.

I have a tendancy to be vague so please bear with me. This is my belief. The Bible is (along with other things) a guide for Christian living. You can't tell an unbeliever that they are going to suffer eternal damnation for being homosexual. Only those who have accepted God's gift of his Son will be able to escape that. So the homosexuality thing is a moot point. Remember "you" is generic and not you specifically.

If I see a post on the Alien board and wish to reply to it, I might mention that I have a problem believing it because I believe this: >insert scripture here

Originally posted by darkelf

Sorry if I seem to be ranting, I just have a hard time with people who quote (or misquote) scripture with no rhyme or reason and then get upset when their position is challenged.

I don't think I've run into these people here on ATS. They definately exist, that's kind of the Christian version of, when you start losing a debate, resorting to name calling.

Having discussions on religion, I have seen a lot of Bible verses thrown out there. However, they are typically refuting someone's misconception of what's said in the Bible and comes with at least a brief explanation. In the science threads, scripture shows up a lot when people like James The Lesser say the Bible states the world is flat and other such nonsense. Often those aren't accompanied with commentary, but they speak for themselves.

As far as scripture quoted in the aliens/UFO threads, I don't really frequent those so that may be where you've gotten this impression. It could also be that I don't notice when scripture is thrown out there with seemingly no reasoning behind it because I interpret it about the same way as the poster and understand where they're coming from.

Let people have their own opinion, whether you agree or not.

On this, I agree. However, I will also excersize the right to express mine, too.

Please do, I look forward to it.

Have been since I joined

posted on 20-5-2005 at 09:21 AM Post Number: 1398756 (post id: 1420649)

"Orangetom,

Shouldn't you be more concerned about kids learning how to use grammar properly?

Orangetom????!!!! Well Orangetom????????!!!!!!!! Is this annoying Orangtom????????!!!!!!! "

You cannot possibly be a good athiest...not possible...athiests are people of logic and reason...,they can see things clearly and not get on the string so easily!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You cannot be so easily gone that you broke down from the excellent point you were carrying out in debating statemet by statement...to the above quote.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stay on target Riley...you were doing such a fine job until now...take a deep breath ..."breath in ...breath out...Daniel san. Wax on Wax off. Stay on target ...debate point by point please...

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Stay on target Riley...you were doing such a fine job until now...take a deep breath ..."breath in ...breath out...Daniel san. Wax on Wax off. Stay on target ...debate point by point please...

I don't see any point in answering childish rants- and I did not bother reading the rest of that post as it became clear I am not 'debating' with a mature [or civil] mind.
Try posting again minus all the bs.

[edit on 20-5-2005 by riley]

Yes Riley ...I agree...you seem to have gotten the point finally. You did not however reply to my post about Salt. Like many you seem wont to pick and choose...and then disregard. I see Christians doing this too..so it is not directly aimed at you but just for a reference point.
I feel the same way about a mature and civil mind....however I will not dismiss it to stand on the high ground. I will ask what is in fact High Ground.
You are trying to make a point about athiesm. I can respect your disagreement more than this method you seem wont to use.



"I don't see any point in answering childish rants- and I did not bother reading the rest of that post as it became clear I am not 'debating' with a mature [or civil] mind.
Try posting again minus all the bs.
[edit on 20-5-2005 by riley]

bs is a factor in this world ..I dont agree with it ..mostly. If I want bs I watch television or listen to the news. You claim to be an athiest.. To me this means Logic and Reason as the bulkwork of this system. Aristotle,Plato,Hegel, Fredrick Nietze, Francios Voltarie et al.
When you walk in this world..you'd better learn to go the distance even through bs. You have a host of excellent philosophers from which to choose in navigating this maze. By the way..even philosophers are very adept at bs....I trust you know this too. To my limited experience ..a degree or mortar board only means that if you want to sling bs ..this persons bs is more believable bs than mine.

Nevertheless..stand your ground with me Riley..I can respect that more than this backpeddling dismissal. If you are a believer in your system..defened it...whether I agree or not.

Thanks,
Orangetom

You know..I seem to recall some years back reading a article in Scientific American ..or perhapsed it was Discovery or Omni magazine about something called Red Shift theory. I may not even have the name of the theory correct.
Nevertheless it had to do with light spectrums and colours determined by looking out into deep space and the averaging of the total of the light colour readings. If I recall the gist of the article..when examining the average of the colours from this point in space... certain colours average out about equally in intensity. The point being that this theoretically can only happen from the center of a point of observation. Somewhere in the center.
It was a intresting article for this reason ..the conclusion.
However ..for our practical purposes it serves little usage as we will never get out that deep into space to debate the point and if we did..what difference will it make then too. We will not do anything about it. As I recall the scientific community has been mostly silent about this conclusion. Knowlege of this true or untrue..will not change our daily lives.
Perhapsed some of you are more versed in this than I. Just thought I'd post this as a curiosity.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by jake1997
So if AiG says that 1+1=2, it is wrong?

No.. but there is a likelyhood that that site would insist that 3+4=2 depending on whether the bible says so or not.

What you really mean is that you want him to goto someone who supports that cult of darwinism to get the same lies that you have been fed.

Jake,
Do not tell me what I 'really mean'.. or what I have been 'fed'. I am growing tired of your judgements on how I have been raised/corrupted or what I am really thinking.. it's rude not to mention irritating as the only basis for your assumptions about my life is limited to what I post.

Cool. But you did the same thing about AiG. You made a judgment that nothing from there is acceptable and then you equated them with the bible and gave a faulty math to show the same.
You told me not to do exactly what you had done .

Fair nuff?

Now, if there is indeed scientific proof [holes in evolution/proof of 'young earth' that can dissprove an already scientifically proven earth of 5 billion years old]- there should by rights be an objective source which has recorded it.. AiG is NOT objective and is therefore unreliable.

Im getting ready to make that statement you told me not to make again.
You just did it.
But
Check out the science section and you will see a thread by me about the dating methods where we concluded that the dates we end up with are based on assumptions.
Thats right. I dont care what you base them on if they are assumptions.
That means that your billion year old earth is not science fact...but is THEORY instead.

You claim to be a thinker, and scientific. Science does not discriminate.

And it is not bias to scipture either
and it should not be bias against information without first considering it.
From what Ive seen by atheists, AiG is one of the more respected among the creationists sites. They dont mind discussing them at all.

It takes all the evidence and examines it.
So do that
Examine it
Have JungleJake open a thread with his first peice of information to examine.
I'd like to follow that

I'm happy to examine the evidence.. just so long as it is from an objective source and not a religious one. I have gone through AiG [and a couple of others] thoroughly and found alot of false 'facts' twisted and tarted up with lots of big words.. the site has no scientific credibility whatsoever.

On that same note, he can say that he doesnt want to hear from any 'so called science' that is even mentioned by the folks at talkorigins.org.
You can use any evidence except for what they provide and or mention because all of those theories have been examined and proven false.
(im just using this as an example so you can see how rediculous your claim about AiG is)

Either you want science, or you dont.
But you have already lost your 4.5 billion year old earth in that other thread..so how about we jump right into pictures of those millions of missing transitional forms

Evolution is a religion. I dont have enough faith to believe in evolution