Only Minorities Allowed To Take Calculus In Oregon

Originally posted by junglejake
So...In order to compensate for the cultural effects of slavery 150 years ago,

Slavery ended 150 years ago....Up until 40 years ago racism was still institutionalized, and black were second class citizens that did not have equal protections, or OPPORTUNITIES under the law. Otherwise known as "American Apartheid"

Whether or not you want to admit it. If you are white, odds are your parents, and or grandparents lived in a segregated America, and did not have a problem with it.

[edit on 18-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Whether or not you want to admit it. If you are white, odds are your parents, and or grandparents lived in a segregated America, and did not have a problem with it.
[edit on 18-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

I am not. My great grandparents lived as share croppers in a segregated America. Yet, my grandmother and her brothers and sisters really made something of themselves in this nation. As such, knowing my family history, racism and bigotry of any sort really strikes a chord with me, and I hate it. I don't just hate it when it's happening to me, I hate it all around. I don't care if white folks living in segregated America didn't have a problem with it, we don't live in that America anymore. Most sensible people today would have a problem with it. Sadly, a large percentage of those people have a problem with it only when it's happening to a non-caucasian. When, like in this instance, the "man" is being put down, people are generally ok with it. Oh, how far we've come

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Slavery ended 150 years ago....Up until 40 years ago racism was still institutionalized, and black were second class citizens that did not have equal protections, or OPPORTUNITIES under the law. Otherwise known as "American Apartheid"

Whether or not you want to admit it. If you are white, odds are your parents, and or grandparents lived in a segregated America, and did not have a problem with it.
[edit on 18-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

So, how about we just forget about the past 150 years and just move on with our lives? Is that too much to ask, or do you feel like you need retribution?

Originally posted by Slayer
So, how about we just forget about the past 150 years and just move on with our lives? Is that too much to ask, or do you feel like you need retribution?

I will assume you meant reparations, and not retribution. If you did mean retribution, then I would have to answer no, as a large portion of my family is white...anyways

Not to get off topic, but yes I think reparartions are in order. Why? Because this would stop all of this nonsense, like what spurred this thread. Think about it. If America, made a national apology, and paid reparations for their past transgresions (just like Germany did) then no one could have a reason or excuse to ask for preferential treatment such as the case with this calculus issue.Then the issue would be dropped forever as blacks would have no excuses any more. (not saying their issues do not hold water)

I think that because I am of mixed race I am able to look at both sides of the issue perhaps a bit more neutral, which is why I can and do say the things I do. Both sides of the argument do have their points, I can not deny that.

I wonder though.... I am only half black , so if that were to happen, I wonder....would I only get half

[edit on 18-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

If reparations were made by the US government, I know I would, and I suspect my family would, flat out refuse them.

A public national apology and paying reperations would not solve the whole problem, it would create a bigger problem. If there were a national apology and payment made to african americans who could trace back their ancestory, there would be cries of elitism because not everyone could afford to have their roots traced. If it was given to all african americans, milatos and people legally considered to be white yet have slave ancestory would have a lot to say.

Then it opens into an even bigger problem. Next, Native Americans demand the same thing. Then Mexicans for us taking the South West via war. Then the small special interest groups would probably come out of the woodwork. The US was cruel to the mentially handicapped for many, many decades. Apologize and pay. The US was cruel to Chinese migrant workers in the 1800s. Apologize and pay. The US was cruel to Cuban citizens by boycotting the Cuban government. Apologize and pay.

No, apologizing and paying wouldn't be a solution, it would be the beginning of the end for America, because all of our money would be going to paying all the minority groups here in the US, which makes up the majority of our population. As my mom likes to say, I fuc*ed you up, now it's your job to get over it.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin.Then the issue would be dropped forever as blacks would have no excuses any more.

they have no excuse now, you know because the whole constitution thing, freedom from inequality, the reason segregation and slavery were ended, such actions betray what they fought for.

Im White and Ima minority where I live. But you dont see me getting any special benefits. I remember on TV a couple of years ago the News people were having a slow news day so one of their interactive poll questions was "Should African-Americans recieve a million dollars for slavery?" HI-larious

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Not to get off topic, but yes I think reparartions are in order. Why? Because this would stop all of this nonsense, like what spurred this thread. Think about it. If America, made a national apology, and paid reparations for their past transgresions (just like Germany did) then no one could have a reason or excuse to ask for preferential treatment such as the case with this calculus issue.Then the issue would be dropped forever as blacks would have no excuses any more. (not saying their issues do not hold water)

In case you didn't know, America has apologized with the Civil Rights Acts. Now it's illegal to discriminate based on race and ethnic backround. In a way, America is paying reparations with affirmative action, political correctness, etc.

Somehow, I doubt that anyone asked for special treatment with this calculus class - I'm highly doubtful that minority students asked the University if they could have an all non-white class because they thought that the new generation of white people needed to pay for their ancestors crimes.

I wonder though.... I am only half black though, so if that were to happen, I wonder....would I only get half

Hilarious.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin.Then the issue would be dropped forever as blacks would have no excuses any more.

they have no excuse now, you know because the whole constitution thing, freedom from inequality, the reason segregation and slavery were ended, such actions betray what they fought for.

You have got to be kidding me? Are you going to try to tell me, that schools in the inner city, are better than schools in afluent suburbs? Are you going to tell me that neighborhoods, public utilities, tax payer dollars, do not favour middle class, and upper middle class neighborhoods?

Sure it's real easy to say oh, we ended slavery 150 years ago, we ended segregation 40 years ago. Fact of the matter is this country was built on the backs of blacks, pure and simple. Then when they were not needed as slaves anymore, they were segregated, then when that stopped they were as much as on their own, without a pot to piss in, or a window to throw it out of.

Money is not invested in the black (or any minority) community at all. They have not been given a fair chance, and we all know this. Yet all you white people want fairness. Kläglich!!!!

You are right they do not have an EXCUSE, what they do have is a REASON.

AND I WANT MY HALF

[edit on 18-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by junglejake


No, apologizing and paying wouldn't be a solution, it would be the beginning of the end for America,

Well it didn't signal an end to Germany, and it actually got people to shut the F up about certain companies that profited from it. So I find your argument weak.

As for the native Americans they were at least given land, and then allowed to run tax free gaming casinos(which I think is great, and they should not have to pay taxes).

Blacks were promised 40 acres and a mule, they didn't even get that. How about 40 acres and a mule, for anyone that could prove that they were directly descended from a slave? I know I am.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
How about 40 acres and a mule, for anyone that could prove that they were directly descended from a slave? I know I am.

So are you looking to make a profit, or are you looking for justice?

If we did decide to do the 40 acres and a mule, I'm all for that. Just get your family tree, starting with the freed slave and working out, and the government will parse those 40 acres and the mule between all of the decendants. I know with my family I would probably get about 3 square inches of land and a piece of mule hair which I would be more than happy to give up in the name of equality. Some are not created more equal than others.

Originally posted by junglejake
So are you looking to make a profit, or are you looking for justice?

Justice actually. My family has land, I do not need 40 more acres. I would'nt mind the mule though.


As for actually giving away land we all know they are not going to do it. Besides you mention "profit" like it's a bad thing. "profit" is what allows financial freedom, and opportunities, which is what black have been denied, for quite some time now.

[edited for extra point]

[edit on 18-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Sigh.... What wasn't discussed in the article....

"If students really need it because they want that time, they want that class, they're willing to wake up at 7:30 to get here. And it takes less than five minutes to do the preauthorization and register for them," Liu said.

This spring term, all of the classes had open spaces but no students showed up at the OMAS on the first day of classes to meet with her and enroll", Liu said.


They created a special class EARLY in the morning, and only opened the FIRST 10 SLOTS to people of minority groups. Anyone could have registered for the remaining seats....yet no one did.

Originally posted by junglejake it makes sense that someone whose great great grandfater was a slave could have a hard time beating a white person whose great great grandfather wasn't a slave to sign up for classes. Oh, wait, I lied, I can't.

You don't think that the cards are stacked against blacks merely for being born black, and that much of it is because of things like slavery and segregation?

I mean, I agree, this is not a very good policy, but the general logic behind it isn't 'horrible'. Its trying to address a nationwide, society wide problem. Why not try?

Its like the Chris Rock bit. 'I'm not for a better qualified white person loosing a job to a less qualified black person, but if they're equal, screw em. THey've had a 200 year head start, screw. ' and "Black C students don't get to become president."

I mean, its not precisely what I'd say, but, there a bit of truth in there. If you are black, right off the bat, you are screwed. And, I know a lot of people complain about how whites are getting screwed over in colleges and all that, but, lets face it, the business, the government, the military, nearly everything in western society is run by white people, and there's not much to prevent them from being racist in their actions. So is something like this a great problem, in the grande scheme of things? The girl that didn't get this class, merely because she is white, has a 'head start' over anyone else, even if she herself is from a poor community, because when she finishes school and goes out into the world, its a white world, with white executives, white television, white models, and white society and culture. (more or less anyways, and yes, lots of that is changing).

So is this case wrong, yes, I think so. Is it a travesty? I think she'll be alright. I mean, shouldn't "reverse racism' require lynchings and slavery and black only toilets and water fountains?? To be a travesty at least?

Then shouldn't the Dutch get New Amsterdam colony returned to them?

Wouldn't the US government have to pay the British for that nastly little "Revolution" misunderstanding?

Indeed, reparations are silly. Its kind of sick to think that some of the corporations around today made their money and accumulated their power intially via the enslavement of other people. Then again, we permit Volkswagon and BMW to sell their cars in the US, so perhaps its a matter of perspective.

But, if there are social wrongs that exist to this day that are the more or less direct result of slavery and segregation (like the demographic issues), and we can do some things about them, well, surely, we'd be right to work on it no?

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by junglejake it makes sense that someone whose great great grandfater was a slave could have a hard time beating a white person whose great great grandfather wasn't a slave to sign up for classes. Oh, wait, I lied, I can't.

You don't think that the cards are stacked against blacks merely for being born black, and that much of it is because of things like slavery and segregation?

I don't think the cards are stacked against them in the sense that they are slower to sign up for classes because of the opression of the white man.

In general, however, yeah, the cards are stacked against African Americans. As long as society as a whole continues to lower expectations and perpetuating this mentality of, "oh, it's ok, you're black and oppressed so we'll hold you to a lower standard of evaluation", the African American community will never get out of the hole its currently in. When we begin to treat everyone the same, giving everyone the same opportunities to succeed or fail, we will notice a steep decline in racism. Rome, back in the day, didn't care one patookus about race, all that mattered was your citizenship status. Why? Because if you were a Roman citizen, you were treated like a Roman citizen. There weren't Gaulish-Romans, Egyptian-Romans, and Parthian-Romans, there were just Romans. Racism didn't exist (though cultural intolerance was the norm at the time) and everyone had an equal shot.

Originally posted by junglejakeRacism didn't exist (though cultural intolerance was the norm at the time) and everyone had an equal shot.

Indeed. Soon after there were colonies and provinces, there were colonialists and provincials in the Senate, and it wasn't long before there were Emperors from Spain and Africa. There was some concern over the 'non romans' and 'non-italians' in the senate and government tho, there was some grumbling. But in general it wasn't a big limit. In the US tho, it is. I think that some social engineering is justified in some cases, but this case, again, seems silly. If you are black, the issue is getting into college, not so much getting special treatment while in college.

The original article quotes the defenders of the bigotry as saying:

“[Blum said].. these classes aren't illegal because neither uses race as a determinant for enrollment.”

True, and I suppose that the defenders of the poll questions used in the South when I was a kid could defend their stuff because they didn’t use “…race as a determinant for enrollment.”, either.

But it and the poll tax were wrong. If one kid is refused a seat because he’s White, it’s wrong. If a kid has to jump through special hoops to get into the class because he’s White, it’s still wrong.

Nygdan says:

“Simple solution, sign up as a minority. IF the students there are sick of this kind of BS, thats what they should do. Have all the 'white' kids sign up as 'black'. They can't refute it, it has no definition, its purely a self identifying characteristic.”

Sorry, Nygdan, no can do. The article says:

“Students must identify as being African-American, Asian-American/Pacific Islander, Chicano/Latino, Native American or multiracial to enroll in the first 10 slots. The OMAS confirms all students' racial identifications with the Office of the Registrar, Liu said.”

Nygdan says:

“Simple solution, sign up as a minority. IF the students there are sick of this kind of BS, thats what they should do. Have all the 'white' kids sign up as 'black'. They can't refute it, it has no definition, its purely a self identifying characteristic.”

Sorry, Nygdan, no can do. The article says:

“Students must identify as being African-American, Asian-American/Pacific Islander, Chicano/Latino, Native American or multiracial to enroll in the first 10 slots. The OMAS confirms all students' racial identifications with the Office of the Registrar, Liu said.”

The true insidiousness of this statement is that you are forcing someone to deny their heritage - their identity - in order to be accepted.

Shortly before graduating from college a few years ago I asked a black student in my major what he thought his chances of getting a job were. The black student told me that since he was black that his chances were 100% due to the Quota system that was in place at the time. He further stated that he did not even have to get good grades in order to get a good job.

Now if minorities want to be taken seriously they need to compete just like everyone else and special privileges should not be granted to them on color of skin. While working for a fortune 100 company a black guy got promoted over several white people. He really did deserve the promotion but the gossip was that he got the job because he was black. The gossip and the attitudes of the people under his management undermined his ability to affectively manage the group and he had to leave the company. So how does special treatment due to skin color give that person an advantage? I think it is a hindrance in there Professional careers.

I am in favor of some special privileges for economically disadvantaged students that have proven themselves academically.